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Its funny the NRA said nothing about things have to tighten up. How these maniacs and irresponsible gun owners make us all look bad and things have to tighten up. The president wasnt against guns ,he signed a fucking bill that allowed people to carry in fed parks. But the NRA cant do that because they dont work for gun owners they work for gun companies and if the rules are tightened up. They cant sell as many guns.
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For me this is no longer about firearms. We have mentally ill people just walking around, buying firearms, and worse - driving on our streets - and we aren't stopping them. Too much lead paint or something. |
I dont think James Holmes would of passed a mental health test
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rs-reveal.html |
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And as a right...it doesn't have to have a "use". If I want one, I can have one. End of story. If, as a society, we decide we don't want that anymore...then let's repeal the 2nd Amendment. I see both sides argument...but as long as there is a 2nd Amendment then guns should be available to all legal U.S. citizens. End of story. |
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(Btw, assault rifles are cheap!) |
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1st Amendment rights are not absolute (illegal to slander someone etc, illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater, CP is illegal too). 2nd Amendment is not absolute either. Better believe that the majority of people in this country do not want felons being able to legally own firearms...US Citizen or not. |
See, this is what I am talking about:
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/...tally-ill.aspx California law: Quote:
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None of it matters though...PLENTY of felons have guns. They just steal them or buy stolen ones on the black market. And YES...for any non-felon LEGAL citizen they should be able to own firearms WITHOUT any laws that infringe on that in any way. I'll repeat it so nobody can misunderstand: If, as a society, we decide that this is NOT what we want...then REPEAL THE 2nd AMENDMENT. |
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Instead of trying to nitpick words and try to figure out what the 2nd Amendment means...let's just either repeal it or shut the fuck up and realize that there are crazy people in this world and big daddy govt. can not protect us from everything no matter how many laws they pass. |
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I'm so glad they outlawed balisong knives and nunchucks because they were so much better at killing people than other weapons. |
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and yes if that is how the 2nd amendment is authored, then i think we need to change it. but i would rather just restrict AR's / heavy ammo / large clips etc. i know some folks in this thread thinks these murderers would just find other ways to mass murder, i dont really agree. most of these murderers are in love with their guns and if they didnt have guns they would probably never murder anyone. |
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Serial killers almost NEVER use a gun. Jeffrey Dahmer didn't. Ted Bundy didn't. The list goes on and on. A lunatic gets his hands on a gun every once in a while and starts shooting. It's insane, but it's a dangerous world. I'd like to be able to stop it too. But taking away the rights granted to us as U.S. citizens isn't really the way to do that in my opinion. As I said earlier...big daddy govt. can't control EVERYTHING (even though they try to). You simply can not stop a crazed person from doing what these people did. Even if you don't accept that they would have simply used a different method (remember what Timothy McVeigh did in Oklahoma City), you still have to understand that if they REALLY wanted to only use a gun...then they would simply steal one or get one off the black market. Criminals and homicidal maniacs don't obey the law. And to guys like that, nothing will stop them from doing what they are hell-bent (literally) on doing. |
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No, I clearly read what you posted...which was: "...as long as there is a 2nd Amendment then guns should be available to all legal U.S. citizens. End of story." A felon is still a "legal US Citizen". Just because one commits a felony does not mean they automatically become an "illegal US Citizen" whatever that means. And now you are backtracking and saying: "any non-felon LEGAL citizen they should be able to own firearms WITHOUT any laws that infringe on that in any way." So I guess you promote the idea of children being able to purchase/own firearms too? You do know that "non-felon LEGAL citizen" includes children born in the USA right? Why repeal the 2nd Amendment when all society has to do is place restrictions on the 2nd Amendment...just like there are restrictions on every other civil right. |
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I'll say it again so you won't think I'm "backtracking": I meant any citizen who could legally buy a gun. That would not include felons. My bad for not wording it correctly. Also...you "guess" wrong. Children can not purchase a fire arm. They are minors. They don't have the full rights of an adult. As for "owning" fire arms. My daddy gave me a shotgun when I was 6 years old. There were guns all over the place in my family. My grandparents had rifles in their home and vehicles. So did my dad. We were raised learning to shoot. In the small town I lived in...everybody had guns. And all my little buddies at school all had rifles as well. We would all go hunting together as kids in my families cattle pastures (thousands of acres of woods). It was considered normal. Nobody blinked an eye about it (and there wasn't much crime either lol) Not sure if I'd want to hand TODAYS children a gun or not. lol Those little bastards spend way too much time killing thousands of people on video games. A few of them might think it's cool to do it in real life too. |
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In this case we are talking apples and oranges.. Serial killers, school-mass shooters and terrorists are not classified in one group. They are three distinct different groups of murderers, for the purpose of this discussion really we need not include serial killers or terrorists. Terrorists are a big threat but not typically someone with a single gun taking down random victims. Usually like McVeigh they target something big and usually very targeted. Serial killers are also motivated by certain acts or victim targets, these killers are seriously psycho deranged but they dont have a death wish and do not want to get caught. Mass shooters (columbine / colorado movie theater and recent school shootings) typically want to go out as a cowboy, they all use firearms (guns) refer to this list from wiki which clearly shows all these incidents were carried out using firearms, not poison or piano string etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...llers#Americas |
JP I know what you're saying.
I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of crazy people out there who kill in a lot of different ways. And yeah...these "copycat" school shootings (thank you CNN for running these stories 24 hours a day/ 7 days a week) are guys who plan them with guns. And if I could wave a magic wand and make guns non-existent, I would. Having said that...the only true way to do this is to repeal the 2nd amendment. And then give it a few decades for guns to get old and the supply to be down to a manageable level as cops take them from captured criminals, they get old and uncared for (except by gun collectors), and ammunition begins to dwindle. And even then...there will still be a random mass shooting here and there. :( |
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:1orglaugh Occupy Wall Street was the first real movement of that type in the US since the 60's. Americans by far are very out spoken about our rights but very few actually do anything to protect them. The govt could ban guns and 99% of the pro gun people would likely just try to hide what they could and do nothing but talk about it on the internet. |
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Jeffrey Dahmer killed 17 people over a long period of time. The shooter in CT killed two dozen school kids in two or three minutes.... |
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The shooter in CT fits the profile - weak, loner, wanted to be "part of the club" so badly that he surrounded himself with dozens of military posters and pictures of hardware, but had no chance of making it. |
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That's about the only thing that you've said throughout this entire debate... |
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If they are spread out, no big deal. Wonder what ones suffered more pain? Not sure about this guy and his killings but BTK guy, wow, I think I would want an AR-15 to kill me not the BTK guy. |
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we are talking about gun control so it seems to make sense to discuss the incidents related to gun violence. |
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The guy who shot the firemen killed his grandmother with a hammer, why was he ever released from prison? The kid in CT was a loner who locked himself in the basement of a million dollar house and surrounded himself with posters of military hardware while playing violent video games. Putting security guards in school is already too late - dozens of steps should be taken before then to ensure that this never happens. The very first step is understanding why these people "slip through the system" in the first place. Jeffrey Dahmer too fell through the cracks. The problem is more people are having mental issues combined with the ready availability of firearms. But in the mean time, more guns that shoot more bullets more faster is not the solution. |
Rochard... if our society ever allows the govt. to forcibly incarcerate everyone who "acts crazy"...you, me, and 90% of the people would be detained. lol
People like Jeffrey Dahmer didn't "slip through the cracks". He never did anything to "slip through". He was a smart guy and normal in every way...except he secretly wanted to kill and eat young gay guys. WTF are we supposed to do...read people's minds? We can't. And we can't let the govt. start hauling people off because they MIGHT do something crazy. That sounds like the Nazi's or The Soviet Union Secret Police. As far as numbers of people killed and time it took to kill them...what the fuck difference does that make in the discussion? Dead is dead. And if you INSIST on that kind of wrong-headed reasoning...then realize this: Timothy McVeigh killed 19 children under the age of SIX YEAR OLD in Oklahoma City in about a split second. He did NOT use a gun. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing |
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And again, this isn't about guns. Don't say "He did NOT use a gun". You are talking about guns, and I'm talking about mental health here. Timothy McVeigh didn't kill with a gun, but no one thought he was odd? He brought firearms to school to impress his friends. But the solution here isn't more guns. More guns isn't going to protect us. All it does is give mentally ill people easier access to guns, be it legally or illegally. Yet again today, in Taft California, there was another school shooting - a student brought a shotgun into school and shot a classmate. Armed guards aren't the answer; The school pays $50k a year for an armed guard who just happened to call in sick the day he was needed the most. Then again, chances are he would have been too late and the kid would have gotten shot anyhow. We have a massive crisis here - people are walking into schools and churches and malls and theatres and just fucking shooting people. The fucking NRA, the only organization who can help us here, the only solution they have is "more guns". The NRA is going to cost us the 2nd amendment. |
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An yes, a guy who committed murder with a hammer on his grandmother should never be let out of prison. But the prisons are very overcrowded at the moment because of the insane "war on drugs". As far as your description of the MAN in CT. who shot those kids...you just described millions of guys in the U.S. (minus the million dollar house you claim). The Taft shooting is looking to be a kid getting bullied by another kid and snapping. All I'm saying is...repeal the fucking Second Amendment before Obama starts acting like Bush with these "Executive Orders" and we get closer and closer to having a "king" instead of a third branch of govt. that is supposed to be equal to the other two. All your pondering on "mental health" is useless. Nobody (especially the federal govt.) has the money to institutionalize all of those people even IF they volunteered to be put away. |
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Pre-Teen Years http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/dahmer.htm In 1966, the Dahmers moved to Bath, Ohio. Dahmer's insecurities grew after the move and his shyness kept him from having many friends. While his peers were busy listening to the latest songs, Dahmer was busy collecting road kill and stripping the animal carcasses and saving the bones. |
Sorry to interrupt any 'Count Chocula is coming for all your guns' hysteria with a quick reality check
The 2nd Amendment (which i strongly believe in) DOES NOT guarantee the right of any US citizen to own ANY weapon they choose. and btw, polls show that rank and file NRA members are in favor of sensible gun laws (ie re-instate the assault weapons ban, no guns for people with history of mental problems and/or violence). NRA leadership ignores that because they are paid whores for the gun manufacturers. |
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Jump on... Let's not look at the real issues.. |
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1. The government isn't coming for you. 2. If they were, your rat-a-tat-tat wouldn't stop them anyway. 3. See #1. |
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Using that logic, people would have said that me and my buddies were probably going to kill people because we were the long haired, cigarette smoking, druggie, Pink Floyd-listening group of shy outsiders while our "peers" "were busy listening" to KC and The Sunshine Band in the 1970's. Just because teenagers act out trying to be rebellious and original doesn't mean that it's a "sign" that they are going to grow up and eat young gay guys they pick up at the club. As I understand it...all of Dahmer's neighbors were shocked at what happened because he was such nice guy. |
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Faux debates on the other hand, such as this one, are when people completely ignore the facts and focus purely on fantasy and speculation in order to make their argument seem valid. So, it's up to you to decide how you'd like to carry on the debate. I choose to consider all the facts and statistics from related scenarios as opposed to blindly picking a side because the mainstream media is feeding me bullshit. For example, not one of you has properly addressed the simple fact that automobiles lead to more than twice as many injuries and deaths than all firearm related incidents combined. But because automobile related incidents aren't force fed every day by the mainstream media, then you people don't really care. All you care about is latching on to whatever the 'hot topic' on the "news" is, and are are completely ignorant to any and everything else around you. So it doesn't matter whether your false notions are based around all guns, handguns, assault rifles, shotguns, or whatever; the facts remain the same. But again, not one of you "anti gun" supporters seem to actually care about the facts; nor do you seem to care whether or not people die, or how many, so long as the death wasn't caused by a firearm. And this is quite simply, absolute nonsense. |
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:ak47: |
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But no.. we mustn't talk about those things less the mainstream media and their faithful followers start calling us "conspiracy theorists". |
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Theories at least have a base in logic. |
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