None of you control and dictate reality...sure you control the monies that flow thru but not common sense and intellect

and 50 posts later nobody wants to talk about inaccurate form submissions or form hits....not anyone...what is the big fear? Why can't anyone comment on form submissions and form hits counting correctly...LOL

As if dodging the issue and feigning ignorance and name calling is going to make the issue of false form submission counts disappear?

I feel the same as you corvette whats keeping you from holding back....perhaps I am holding back to...did that ever dawn on anyone...LOL

I will take on the whole silly thread of you and will not stop asking when the form submission approvals are going to match whats in the reports.

No one wants to come in here and say that stats should be accurate....I love it....you can pretend perception is reality all you want...but reality is reality and in reality stats that do not match and look clean like they should are useless stats.

Sorry there is one shred of common sense and intellect left on this forum because I see what makes people fear to ask questions...fear of ridicule fear of retribution fear of reprisal...

I have none of those fears because when you ask a direct question and get jerked around for 2 years it tells you plenty

Swirlsgirl...... Do you know that the "HITS" depend on several things?

Browsers
Direct Linking
IP's
Java on or off
Script loading twice
Back Button
Anon surfing

Join Form Submissions
Some people are retards and fill it out many times, and also look above.

While these things can be used as a tool, don't base your life and entire business around them.

You have $200 to waste on retarded shit but not $750 to improve your business? Get your priorities straight lady.

You get 20 adderral if you get Ccbill to take her seriously and answer her question...
That's the short version, then read the thread After that
And give me some cliff notes please

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I think the Cliff Notes are longer then the original post.

thats cause you are way too nice :1orglaugh

a condensed version at that :winkwink:

Hi SwirlsGirl,

Maybe this might help you out : Install Google Analytics code on each page of your website, including the join page. Setup the funnel with the join page as the tip of the funnel, and the return page as the goal.

This will give you a much clearer and more accurate picture of your users movements through your site, help with ab testing, and much more.

Best of all, you get to keep the $200 you offered to ccbill in your pocket.

None of us are claiming to, but it is clear you are so removed from reality y pot should be locked up.

If you dislike ccbill, switch to epoch. If you don't have the 750 fee, give up and go home.

fitty ............Serious offers :Graucho

Hey Porno Master I sincerely appreciate you responding in a polite manner and really trying to help with the issue.

Now with respect to what you laid out... and what causes form hits...I am aware of all that you laid out but let me offer this for clarity because I am not confused one bit.

We have ccbill rep Valerie who spoke briefly with my husband today and he asked her this as I listened...

Valerie can you confirm for me today if there has been any update to the form hits and form submissions reports still being inaccurate and incorrect?"

Her response was hold on a minute let me check....she returned in about 45 seconds and said Hi yes there has been no fix of yet so the reports are still reporting inaccurately!

So that ends any and all speculation as to is this a figment of our imagination...am I an attention whore...am I crazy or paranoid...me not understanding how form submissions work or not.

Okay they are on record telling us that the form hits and form submissions report which used to be accurate and correct is now reporting false data!

I say false data because if the data is not accurate or not true then it is false....period.

They are aware of the problem and they offer no estimate or time frame for the fix.

Their words not ours. So we offer $200.00 for someone to go on record and tell us an estimate on when this inaccurate and false stats reporting will be fixed.

I don't know how it is that just because there are no late payouts that some how that means I and others have to put up with stats that do not work.

Wouldn't you think they are under an obligation to make sure the stats they report to us clients are working properly and accurate?

But again they do not even deny that the stats are not working so how do we get to the part about me being crazy...

If that is being unreasonable and paranoid then so be it...At this point I am sort of forced to use them as *ONLY* biller so since I have no other billing option to offer my customers even though I have another processing account in good standing then they will have questions hurled at them about the bad stats that they do not even deny are bad

Install mixpanel, track your own onclick link out, then a one time payment success page in. You could even do that with G's analytics. Why anyone would want to rely on a 3rd party payment provider to provide their own proof of conversion stats verges on insanity.

I am not familiar with the stats that a merchant sees at ccbill so I cannot comment on whether they are accurate or not.

However, the internet is imperfect. There are many reasons for stats to be off from reality. Even if you go to the raw logs level you may not see "reality". Servers go down, requests do not get completed and many other reasons why stats may not match "reality".

So, to say that "stats should be accurate" ignores reality and I believe that is why nobody that knows how things work is going to say that for you.

They should be as accurate as possible but they will never be 100%.

Why thank you for the great and marvelous advice!

Not one ass hat has ever tried to help me realize that there was a better way to track my sales leads then using 3rd party provided stats.

I am humbled that it took only about 50 insulting responses to realize there was a way to track and analyze the sales lead data that I speak of.

Sorry if I seem insane for not knowing about this option but I am merely human and don't know everything and that is why indeed I ask questions around here hoping for serious replies that are constructive that will help remedy the problem.

I am going to look into this and if this setup will do what you claim then there should never be another thread where I ask if stats are working yet.

So many thanks to you for the suggestion, we seem to learn something new everyday!

Just curious to set up mixpanel is it fairly simple to do or will we need special expensive programming to set this up? Again many many thanks for the suggestion!

A question Sara, if you will. This is not meant to belittle your issue at all, it is a genuine question.

Do you consider the forms submission stats to be critical statistics that you need to run your business?

If you do then you should probably do what other people have suggested and install Google analytics or some other stats code into your pages so you can track that number yourself.

Doesn't mean that ccbill should not be giving you those numbers also but that way you would have the numbers you need to make whatever decisions you need to make.

Also, if you do consider them to be critical then could you please tell me why. I am just curious as to what information you would deduce from these particular numbers.

Thanks in advance.

.

I think that most of us would have assumed that Beaner would have told you that since he has been providing help and advice to you.

But you might not have ever asked him and he might not have known you needed it, I guess.

.

********** offered similar advice on page 1 of this thread. Google analytics is free!

Here we go with the questions... lol. I know all about tracking, I know all about cascading, and I know all about growing this particular site. I have given my recommendations on what this site needs in the *immediate*. And it will not be made known public.

CCBill is not tracking join form hits and submissions correctly.
I.e. 10 *NEW* sales on account *0000* are credited to the account in 1 day. Pull up the *FORM HITS* report under reports for account 0000, 4 form hits and 3 submissions will show.

It is always like that. It is a *FORM HITS REPORT*.............. ERROR.

thanks Sarettah I honestly appreciate the way you framed the question as it is a message board but I am human and when I am sincerely trying to get a straight answer that I could not get from ccbill and was forced to come here and post which I knew would blow up like it always does I said screw it...

I need this issues answered and to hell with the flames and insults so again thanks for being civil and reasonable and thanks for asking a very very good question that even those who should understand the value do not understand.

I can go into great detail about why this issue is so paramount but on gfy is not the place to illustrate the reasoning for you.

If you would be so kind to email me at [email protected] I would be very very happy to share with you my detailed reasoning for being so concerned about those specific stats.

I regret that my assertive questioning has people thinking I am a maniac but that is just not the case. I am reasonable, humane, passionate, and most of all...a bit more intelligent then they give me credit for although I am humble enough to admit I learn new stuff every day and I enjoy learning new stuff.

So I would be happy to illustrate these things for you and perhaps if you understand this from my perspective which I cannot lay out fully here then you may even agree with the reasoning behind my queries. Again thanks for chiming in and hit me up off the boards if you really want more detailed insight:)

I can read my CCBILL stats faster than I can read these long ass posts. :P

Yes and to me and hubby that is totally and completely unacceptable and logical cause for concern... for other reasons we won't make public.

All we want to do is grow the site and leave well enough alone but now finally we have a suggestion for something called mixpanel and perhaps that is just what is needed to fix this problem for us.

Thanks to those who suggested google analytics before I suppose I did not realize that google analytics could track form submissions as well as referral urls like ccbill does inside of admin...so perhaps this was an over sight.

Bottom line is running this site with out reliable accurate stats is no different then driving a vehicle down the road with out a temp gauge, speedometer, odometer, or gas gauge and that is just not the best way to travel.

And just so you know their reported stats show 25% form submits for the week however based on our own calculations using the data ccbill is reporting our form submits are at 175% which is a little on the high side but would certainly be an impressive number if only it were possible.

When you can lock down your form submit thresh hold or monthly cumulative average than that can be used to guage the efficiency of your tour,traffic,content and more.

If that threshold is inaccurate which it is and there is no denying even by ccbill anymore then it can throw off ones method for evaluating success and force you to drive that car down the road with no dash panel

Glad to see real webmasters responding who are trying to help...sorry if I over looked some ones sound advice its hard to read every single post when you are target practice for ass hats and trolls who rapid fire away.

Wisdom is calling something by its proper name and to call this INACCURATE stats problem just an error would be misrepresenting the focus of the issue.

It is a critical error and the ccbill reps seem to agree that what our reports are showing are troubling...now is anyone going to call the ccbill reps paranoid crazy or retarded? I think they deserve more respect than that

Thank God you're finally home from the real job to sort this out! :thumbsup

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...TwbFVow22e21lg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...PtxYExAZUHqv4w
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...0oFMGQwnpDwGTg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...xwgW4VmEOyt-WA
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...49KQS29blZBFFn
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...ZgYOEZBii8zbJo

So you have added Beaner into your gfy to cell phone script now? Makes it convenient to keep up to snuff when on the rooftops.

Bundle up tomorrow, will be a cold one. :thumbsup

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Beaner and Sara:

I would be checking sales vs. Members and IPs rather than looking at form hits and submissions. At the end of the day you sell MEMBERSHIPS, right? So if you see ten sales that day, then check your server logs and see, yup, ten new Members in the hta file then what is the problem?

If the form hits/submissions reports are flawed then so be it, there are other ways of tracking....

Beaner: I know you say you know all about tracking etc, but the real issue here is: are you buying what Sara is selling?

Look man, Sara has an interesting site that converts but I took one look and could think of about fifteen things that would triple her sales overnight. Here are some clues:

Video preview WAYYYYYYYYY too long
Navigation a mess
Too many pages on the Tour.
Not enough "call to action" buttons.
WAYYYYY too much free stuff on the Tour.
Promoting phone calls, selling phone calls.....man, seriously now. LOL

But these things bring in sales, you say. Yes, I know - but I'm guessing Sara's site brings in (max) $100k a year (gross revenue). Tripling Memberships brings you much more than marketing Sara the way you do now (phone calls, etc).

Finally Beaner: do you think having Sara come on GFY is helping sell more Memberships?

Okay I'm done trying to help. I like Beaner and admire him for trying to work with/around Sara Swirls. But one thing is absolutely clear about Sara:

She does not present herself in a good business light.

There, comments from an asshat. :)

with respect to the more constructive ass hat since you cared enough to offer a constructive critique...the moment I contacted you off the board and asked if you form submissions were doing certain things and you responded like a fucking prick and said "have your manager Beaner contact me if you wish to discuss anything about join forms...I said to myself he is surely an ass hat and fuck him and his fucking peabody.

Who on this mother fucker presents themselves in a good business light?

Is it michael o of zombaio with recurring empty promises and late delayed payout issues?

Is it barefootsies with his stupid romper rooom picture posts that only amuse him

Is it dirty frank who offers nothing productive or constructive but lousy attempts at insults

Is it you peabody who has had your own share of ccbill rant threads?

Is it paxum who...

is it cheesy rat companies that process for stolen and pirated content?

I mean who in the fuck on this board shows themselves in a good business light these days?

Business is war and unfortunately I had to learn the hard way and I guarantee there are ass hats still watching these threads closely that are holding funds of ours from years ago

Thanks for your advice but I reached out to you a few times in sincerity for opinions and questions and you talked down to me like you were some high priest whom I was certainly beneath.

I go about getting answers to my valid questions the way I see fit. If payouts were not late and affecting me in the past I would not post about the shit.

If stats were not fucked and false and inaccurate I would not post about it. So in my mind I have absolutely zero fucks to give about my supposed fellow industry colleagues who think I am not one to do business with.

I am not interested in doing business with any of you...get that straight first. I have customers,fans,supporters who I am interested in doing business with.

The problem is in order to do business with them I have to have middle men in the pot. You know the middle men have inserted themselves into this industry that is driven by producers like myself and customers who purchase goods and services.

I scream and shout on the boards when I see smelly funky bull shit and if you had any clue you would realize somebody has to be the pit bull around here when it comes to ass hattery.

but thanks for your critique, which is your opinion. We do not have a n issue with the site converting!

What I do have a problem with is conversions that are 1/180 on sunday...then 1/1000 on monday then 1/1000 on tuesday then on wednesday back to 1/200

Mean while these wild ratio swings are happening and I try to examine and evaluate stats to further scrutinze these ratio swings and my stats are completely useless and not counting clicks or form submissions, or form approvals...and I am supposed to say okie dokie everythings fine...

Wish I were at liberty to share my loyal customer Andrew's story as it would definitively and accurately justify and validate my assertiveness and need to validate and verify every segment of my stats reports

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/i...OoxuFU1vt1tv-g
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/i...PQaQVZFWgdbJNQ

nice...kudos to ccbill

Problem solved

bump for a part time loser.

I see you ended up explaining a few posts down. :thumbsup

.

Yep :p

8chars

Sara, I don't discuss business with models. I discuss business with Webmasters who run the model's websites. And this is supposedly Beaner's role, yes?

Here's why I don't discuss business with models: Your perspective, being the content producer, is far differant from a salesman - someone who has to SELL your product. A model's perspective is very narrow and regardless of how long she's been in this business or her experience level with technical things she's still an egotistical model more concerned with the mole on her ass than conversion ratios.

There ARE exceptions to this BUT Sara you have not proved yourself to be one since you obviously misunderstand much of this business and have proven yourself to be quite hysterical when it comes to posting.

So reaching out to me off-board asking essentially the same questions you ask here only shows me you have NO perspective and have fallen down the rabbit hole. This is why I would prefer to speak to someone, like Beaner, who's less.....emotionally involved let's say.

Bottom line: There's no cheese in the maze you're running around in.

That's what happens unless you're pushing some serious volume.

Yesterday my overall ratio was 1:178 and today so far I am at 1:1323.. I see this as perfectly normal, you would make a rant about how you're getting fucked.

Only one way to find out if thats normal is byy having working and accurate stats which stopped functioning some time around august 2010.

And for your info I respectfully disagree and it is not normal because you say its normal!

Once again I have had ccbill reps who told us personally in the past year they are willing to go on record because even they can see the yo yo ratio swings numbers are not normal and do not make sense.... there is a disconnect.

Why work to increase traffic when you can have 1/180 on monday double the same targeted traffic then on tuesday like you say you are 1/2000

Not a personal attack on you but that is not normal...I don't know what your reasoning but just because its normal in your mind does not mean it should not be scrutinized.

We are talking about sales leads here....when someone lands on your join form you need that click counted and reported...period!

The form submission percentage is the most stable stat I have ever examined in this business and when you achieve an annual cumulative form submit percentage of 30-35% for 5 years straight regardless of traffic, content and affiiliates then it tells you that form submits should be under normal circumstances the most stable and steady stat one can have.

You see any sales number count can be reported to you in your absence, however for every single sale approval there must be at least 1 corresponding form submissision. There could be multiple form submissions but if you see a sale...then it is common sense and intellect to want to verify and visually see the corresponding form submission.

If affiliates can be counted, affiliate sales can be counted, charge backs can be counted, voids can be counted, databases can be counted, rebills can be counted...

certainly certainly certainly certainly surely surely surely a form submission can be counted and reported as well as a form hit. To sit there and say oh its broke...and we don't know when its getting fixed is an insult.

the damn thing worked flawlessly for years up until 2010 Somebody thought form hits report were important enough to program into the software. Even verotel has form hits reports...I don;t see anyone asking them to fix their form hits reports for 2 years.

But anyway this is redundant I am looking into google analytics and maxpanel since I am heavily invested with this billing option.

Yep Normal......

Ratios need to be looked at Weekly or Monthly and Yearly.

Daily is stupid. Maybe a gallery was listed on thehun.
Maybe Google updated either for the good or bad.
Different days DEFINATELY have different surfers.

If you want to compare Daily, only compare same days of the weeks, and take an overall average.

If you are relying ONLY on CCBILL for Stats, you are WRONG.

id like to add A CAPTCHA on the join form?