settle down.

you can either read 5 sentences about the details surrounding the event and think you know wtf you are talking about or you can watch a 2.5 hour documentary on the matter and learn something about what happened there.

either way.

couple facts about serving that warrant. it took 76 agents and 80 vehicles stetching 1 mile to serve that warrant. and that's after the sheriff had seized the firearms at the compound and deemed them all to be legal firearms and returning them.


.

No but you can cut their throat with a bottle opener!

Don't know that it's been done but we should ban bottle openers just in case!

:winkwink:

This correlation is so weak and it is not common sense. People die from guns, motorcycles, cars, booze, green onions (e-coli), cans of tomato soup (botulism), lightning etc etc etc.

Guns are different because of one simple fact. The gun used in the CO theater shooting was used to spec. It was not designed for fun, it was designed to harm and kill people without the need to stop and reload period. It was used as that manufacturer intended to perfection. That makes it stand out.

Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is a joke. It should be an isle at Walmart, not a branch of Fed Gov.

It's funny how the Feds are only concerned about the least deadly of the three. The Feds aren't concerned about us killing each other, we just have to do it in a slow, controlled manner.

I can see the US dividing into separate countries like Europe.

I know what you are saying...but it's not true. People shoot those exact kind of guns every day for fun.

Hell, you can go to the gun range here in Vegas and shoot a real "machine gun" and people do that for FUN.

I agree that some guns are better at shooting than others (more shots without reloading, etc.). But to say they aren't used for fun is just ignorant.

Thousands of people at thousands of gun ranges are shooting them right now as I type this for FUN.

That guy in Colorado is an aberration, not the "norm".

By the way, I have never been to a gun range. It sounds kinda fun. But if I wanted to shoot my shotgun for the hell of it, I'm damn sure not gonna pay some gun range for the privilege. lol

I'd just drive out in the desert and do it. Or, when I'm down in Fla. I'll just go out in my dad's pasture land and do it.
I don't...because my idea of "fun" is drinking and whoring. :1orglaugh

Face it; there is no reason that will satisfy the hippies.

I was in California for Loma Prieta too. We went without power for four days. It's amazing how quickly everything in your fridge goes bad with no power. We had no phones either of course. No power also means no restaurants and no stores - we couldn't even leave the area because there was no place to get gas... You could only go as far as your gas tank allowed.

I lived in an apartment back then. We all had a big BBQ and cooked up what little meat we had. The next few days it was all canned goods.

But no one walked around threatening people. I find it hard to believe it was any different in freaking Santa Cruz.

Speaking of the ATF and jokes.... this one is comedy gold.

What is alcohol designed to do? What is a greater harm to society - alcohol or guns? Is it easier to get a gun or get alcohol in this country? Again, not one person has made a solid argument as to why guns should be banned, and not alcohol.

I like to shoot and talk about guns. It is a hobby. It is fun. On a lazy Sunday, what is more likely to hurt someone, me going to the gun range and shooting for a few hours, or me sitting at home and downing vodka shots for a few hours.

People who want to ban guns simply want to impose their definition of "fun" on other people, no more, no less. They don't want to address harms that impact their fun, but they have no problem regulating what other people consider enjoyable.

And btw, I'm a black, Obama voting Dem living in Seattle. Not exactly a tin foil hat wearing redneck living in West Virgina waiting for the feds to come get me. I can't let white rednecks have all the fun (and as said by others, I'm going to be prepared for the zombie invasion).

Have you ever tried shooting three times at a duck with pump action? Sure it can be done. But semi-auto is so much easier.

Why do people think I don't need a semi-auto gun? Why do people want to take away my freedom of choice?

Why do you think you can pay 1 cop to police 1,000 citizens and everything is going to be hunky dory?

Two hand guns were used in VT. Killed and wounded more.

I guess you didn't know about the undercover agent the ATF had in there, I mean if no illegal weapons were found, why did they get an arrest warrant?

The whole thing was a cluster fuck, there were all sorts of laws the ATF broke in order to murder all those kids

The sound of a weapon discharging repetitive amounts of rounds in a matter of just a few seconds scares the popo out of anyone. It's also handy if you're a crappy shot, so if the first wont hit the target, maybe the other 14 will.

it was a planned raid + publicity stunt gone horribly wrong.

a quote from one of the jurors from the jury trial that acquitted the branch davidians on the murder and conspiracy to murder charges:

One juror stated to the San Antonio Express-News, "When we heard all that testimony, there was no way we could find them guilty of murder." He added that "We felt provocation was pretty evident. When the firestorm started, everybody was trying to cover their behinds...I thought two agents in plain clothes should have gone in there and knocked on the door (to issue warrants)".

Why do you NEED to worry about other people and how they conduct their lives. Try worrying about yourself.

They are fun to shoot, so are fully automatics. If you aren't into it, GFY. Some people probably aren't into some of the shit you are either, but they aren't asking you WHY you need it.

Cigarettes kill more people per year than firearms, why do we NEED cigarettes.

I'm not about to watch a slanted two hour documentary on Waco when I can read two paragraphs on Wikipedia and figure it out. ATF served a warrant and was shot at - and that's all I need to know. Once you start killing federal agents you know they are going to bitch smack you.

I read this too on Wikipedia and I thought it was odd at first. Normally you would only need a few agents to serve a warrant. Maybe a few more if they were serving a warrant on a house that was "defended" or reinforced in some way.

But this wasn't a house, it was a compound with nearly two hundred people in it - 172 to be exact. Clearly you don't search a compound that houses 170 people in it with four agents.

The local sheriff seized the firearms? And deemed them all legal? That's great. Fucking awesome. The reality is, no matter what, the ATF showed up with a warrant, legally allowing them to search the entire property. It doesn't matter if the sheriff was there the day before, it doesn't matter if they had no illegal weapons, all that matters is that they had a warrant, they were denied access, and started a gun battle. A simple matter of a search warrant turned into murder.

Ok, a good reason to own a semi-auto, other than the original founders words.

I think one of the best reasons is still the same as it was in 1903 when the U.S. government created the Civilian Marksmanship Program.

If we end up in a situation, such as WWII, where we have to gear up quickly, it is important to have people familiar with weapons.

The CMP was administered by the Army for years and years. It was later privatized but still exists. They emphasize youth training in weapons and their weapons of choice are the very popular M1 carbine and the M1 Garand. Both semi-autos with the M1 having a removable clip and there are 30 round clips available all over the place. If you are a member of a CMP sanctioned organization (gun club) then you have access to purchase military surplus M1s at a lower price than the normal private marketplace.

So, if my government thinks it is a good idea for me to have a semi-automatic rifle and know how to use it, who am I to argue.

just my :2 cents:

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Richard you are very consistent in your belief that you experience a reality every else experiences and if they don't, they are a 'nut' or you apply some other dehumanizing label to them... reality check: not everybody has your life and not everybody wants what you want, AND not everybody BUT you is wrong. :2 cents:

Anyone reading this would think that the USA is full of gun ranges with people lined up around the block to get in. My county has a million people and 6 gun ranges. You are all out shooting for fun....

did you learn nothing from watching Son of Anarchy?
:winkwink:

dang rochard. ok.


i simply provided a link to a well-done documentary, you can wave it off as slanted without even watching it but it's clear that is how you react to things that don't coincide with your incorrect view.

?

I won't be shooting anyone. Where on Earth do you get that? Anyone that knows me knows I am a peace loving hippie for all intensive purposes. Fear was not the issue because there was security in knowing that I was prepared to protect myself and those around me.

I just have seen events in my life that make me realize that ownership of a gun, besides the fun of target practice and hunting, does serve a practical purpose of protection and that should be an inalienable right, just like our Forefathers reasoned out.

Ask all the Swiss adults that are required to own them.

Have you ever driven a car that tops out at 85? I have, I have no desire to go back to those days.
Intents and purposes. :)

Were you in Santa Cruz? I was and I know how mellow it is. Unless you are cutting in on some surf rat's wave it is one of the most peace loving places on the planet. Which is why I was shocked when there were flashpoints - that could easily have been worse and luckily were diffused - but those opened my eye witness eyes to the fact of how quickly things can get dangerous in those types of earth shattering, literally in this case, events.

Until age 30. Then they are required to turn them in. And they are not given any ammo for their gun. So it is more of a stylized club at that point.

The swiss are nothing like us ,its very very different.
http://www.businessinsider.com/switz...erring-2012-12

I lived through the same earth quake. Odd, I never heard of groups of armed people rolling around looking for food.

I've learned two things from SOA....

1) Gemma is fucking hot. It's changed my thoughts about MILFs.
2) The CIA is bad ass. Don't fuck with them.

I don't want to ever have to pull a gun on anyone, nor would I even threaten to do so unless I felt a life threat.

We went out to get video of the looting. While we were shooting one strip mall getting sacked, a group started at us and asked what we were doing - but we just said "sorry" and jumped in our car.

At a stop light, we stopped for red, even though no other cars were obeying any form of traffic signal. A car of guys with guns pulled along side us. We rolled down our windows. It was like a grey poupon commercial. They said "you folks shouldn't be out right now". We said, "yes, as a matter of fact we are heading home right now." I had my hand on my gun but there could not have been a more polite exchange.

Peace of mind is not a bad thing. In that regard it is merely a tool. Do you need a hammer every day if you are not a carpenter? No. But it sure is nice to have one if you do need it one day.

btw...

I also lived in Venice on a street called "Brooks Ave" that someone altered to read "Rock Ave" which was more appropriate.

Cops stopped us all the time thinking we were there to buy crack. They would say things like "we pull a body out of here every night why do you live here?"

Yes, we could hear gunfire many nights of the week. However, I was never worried about the gangsters. Those guys were running a biz and as long as we didn't mess with them then they were completely friendly to us, less menacing than the cops to tell you the truth.

I don't live in paranoia. I don't even have guns right now to be honest. However I do believe that preparation, due to the events I have witnessed personally, is not a bad thing.

:thumbsup

You didn't hear me say that either, dingus.

I should add in... This is really the only reason why I own firearms - in case something "huge" happens and people riot... Be it an earthquake or some kind of disaster.

We had that propane train fire here where most of the town was evacuated, and it just reminded me we do need to be prepared for anything.

In the event riots break out without warning - highly unlikely - I'm prepared.

well apply that to the gun debate. having the gun shoot extra is too much they say. the car is built for it tho its illegal to use it. same difference the govt trust you to not drive way over the limit.

The government is Never Shady. Not even back in the wild west days making up excuses to take peoples land.

They will ALWAYS find a "REASON" to do what they want.

Exactly why I have my AR-15
Plus I do honestly love to still hunt Iron sight one shot at a time coyotes with it. I only use a 10 or 20 round mag as the 30 or 50 ones tend to jam all the time. I can shoot 30 rounds at targets faster with 3 ten round mags faster than one 30 round mag.
I could use my 30/30 30-06 or 7mm, but that is just to much power for such a small animal.

wow a lot of the post are coming down pretty hard on this sleazy dream guy. He in the biz? Or just cocky with jealous haters or both?

to make war ? :winkwink:

Why do you have more than one kitchen knife? Rocks in your back yard? All can kill people.

The gun debate is about as useless as debating religion and politics. No matter what your position is, someone disagrees. It's an endless debate and gun owners are guilty until proven innocent just for "wanting" to own them.

The one thing I think needs to be addressed is training. you can buy a gun here with absolutely no training. I think that's about as careless as letting 16 year old kids drive cars without a license.

And I mentioned VT where?

And that article is not necessarily "the truth" either.

1. A gun is a gun is a gun and any gun in the hand of any citizen in any country is just as dangerous.

2. Swiss have an advantage because not only does the militia aspect teach them gun responsibility and safety but also respect.

3. Swiss have a much different social strata, median income, social services, etc. and none of these factors are even being considered as contributing positive or negative influences. In a dense population, regardless of being a city or a state or a country, those types of things should be weighed in as well. Ever notice that in the US at least, the gun rampaging types tend to be white upper middle class in very competitive social systems - why not look into those contributing environmental conditions that lead up to the situation? Because that is much tougher than saying "guns are bad, mmmkay".

Agree x 3.

Tougher standards, licenses/permits, etc. makes sense to me. Even a law abiding moron that owns a gun scares me just as much as a rampaging psycho.

Alcohol is designed to be consumed in moderation responsibly. Absolut does not bottle vodka for you to Amy Winehouse it. Why? Because they lose a customer if you do. An AR-15 with a 30rd or 100rd clip if used AS DESIGNED is meant to dispense 30 or 100 bullets as fast as you can pull the trigger. Those bullets are not intended for deer or targets, they are intended for humans. It's that simple.

Self-inflicted? alcohol Homicide? guns The harm to society cannot be compared like that. If I drink myself to death, so what? If I shoot people at the mall that is an issue.

If you have $1000 cash and go to a gun show it is no harder then you having $20 and going to the grocery store. Comparing a consumable product to a discretionary one is impossible.

Then why not shoot with rubber bullets? Why does the projectile have to be deadly for you to prove you can aim? Why do you need 30rd or 100rds at the range? To answer you question I would say you going to the gun range and shooting and you drinking Vodka at home are both 99.99% safe. What is your point?

No, I think it pretty much has to do with not having your 5 year old shot at school dude. I want to stop your fun???, seriously, that was weak. This is an emotional argument, but it has nothing to do with me limiting your fun factor.

Ok, I don't think that all gun peeps are hicks. Not at all. On a note I worked for the NRA for a year, so I have some pretty deep insight into this.

BTW, I am ok with CCW and I don't have a problem with hand guns, I have a problem with large capacity clips and loopholes in gun registration. I understand that banning "assault weapons" is really just take scary looking guns out of the equation. However it also begins to change the Rambo culture of this country which is half the problem in my opinion.

Keep reasonable guns in reasonable people's hands.

I always wonder about all this "training".

Here's all you need to know:
1. Don't ever point it at anybody.

2. Keep it somewhere safe.

3. Make sure the safety is on when not in use.

4. Practice your aim (unless you own a shotgun like me, then all you have to do is point it in the general direction)

What else is there to be "trained" for? It ain't brain surgery. It's just a gun, very simple to use and common sense dictates most of what you need to know.

It ain't like anybody is being "trained" for black ops or the navy seals. My shotgun required no "training". My grandfather showed me everything I need to know when he and I would go shooting in the woods starting at around age 6.

No one addresses the root cause with gun violence because it's too difficult. Politicians would never blame the car if a drunk driver ran over a bunch kids in a school cross walk. That would be no less tragic than what happened in SH yet they jumped on the gun ban wagon like it was planned.

The Feds love guns, just not in our hands.

I find it odd that politicians focus so much attention on varmint rifles yet no one has an issue with .50 Cal. sniper rifles that are capable of shooting through aircraft engines. I'd love to have one but that's one weapon that serves absolutely no purpose in society.

Why are they not meant for targets?

The problem is that you are an intelligent person and all that is common sense which you as an individual grasps. But couldn't you easily write a 4 or 5 step bulleted pointed list on driving? Would you be happy with that? The point he is making is pretty logical. If you buy a gun you have to be safe with it and you should be tested and trained.

The 2nd amendment discusses a "well regulated militia". Can you have a well regulated militia with untrained shooters?

So instead of changing out a mag, you NEED to fire 100 rounds at a target IN succession?

Are you lining up your shot for each of those or are you just squeezing off rounds?

If your just squeezing off rounds, then fine, lets manufacture a gun range mag that accommodate rubber bullets for that purpose. The accuracy issue in then negated if you want to Rambo it.

If you are lining up your shots for accuracy then change out your magazines every ten shots. No problem, you don't need 30rds or 100rds.

If you NEED to hone your skills of firing off 100 real rounds with accuracy without changing out your mag, unless you are in law enforcement or the military I don't want you to have a gun. ;)

So tell me your target shooting 100rd necessity story.

the sleazydream wont buy this idea. but here goes.

life does not always exist in the 1st world. as far-L correctly points out, natural disasters like hurricane katrina can almost instantly convert a city from an orderly society to savagery. Here in NY, in august 2003 a power glitch caused power to be lost to the entire northeastern USA. Just hours of power outage made traveling home dangerous. i witnessed 3 car accidents as morons flew through dead stoplights in a 30 minute span. I went to my local bar & it was cash only. I could only imagine 3 weeks of power being out. anarchy as long as the feds cant bring in the cavalry.

imagine our country if there was no 2008 bailout, & the banks all crashed & nobody could withdraw money, nobody could do shit without cash in hand. anarchy. nothing less.

people who want guns banned forget humans are still in the animal kingdom, & all the fruits of our intelligent designs can die almost instantly & without prediction.

so owning a semi-auto is essential to beat back the roving savages that will inevitably accompany the loose nukes that take out manhattan & DC, & gives our economy a heart attack not seen since the 1907 panic. guaranteed that the anti-gun crowd will be wishing for a gun when jonny law is not there in a state of disorder.

:2 cents: