Yeah, that was my feeling too. I don't really know what citizens were like 50 years ago, other than the fact that bigotry was commonplace.

I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Anyone who believes this was the cause of the crisis only knows about 10% of the story.

Also wanted to say there are many bankers, investors, flippers, builders who are good legit business people. Not talking about you!

Of course, only deluded lunatics know 100% of any major event.

That obvious and unchanging truth has been repeatedly established in practically every discussion on this forum since 9/11.

I had an aunt and uncle who did much the same. In the late 70s they were on the ground floor of the ceramic hobby fad - they started a small business from their rural home that quickly swelled into one of the largest ceramic dealerships in Canada. Along with it, they began their spending spree - they bought a yacht, a posh luxury condo in Toronto, luxury car...exotic vacations, all the toys. They lived high-on-the-hog - never realizing the ceramic hobby craze was just a fad that died out after a decade or so.

And then the creditors came knockin'.

Meanwhile, they were stuck with payments on things they could no longer afford - and had to liquidate at fire sale prices. They stiffed a few suppliers and eventually disappeared out of the country for a while - meanwhile court bailiffs were serving papers on their remaining holdings and trying to track them down.

They never thought to set aside a nest egg - but just rode the wave crest until it was too late.

We have 32 years of data on 'Trickle Down' now, and there have been a number of studies that show it simply doesn't work. Good luck finding one that proves it does. Trickle down doesn't lead to greater employment, higher GDP, nothing.


Personally, I think it was a hustle from the get go...

People who buy houses/things they can't afford = people who follow their dreams.
If you can't afford living your dream then reality will catch up sooner or later.
People who lost everything blame people who have what they want

I have great news for you. NO ONE is ever going to corner you in a dark alley, tackle you and throw you to the ground and stomp you to death for being a genius.

Should have quoted so no confusion

Anyone looking for a good overview of the financial crisis should check out Inside Job

He lumped everyone who lost out into the group who borrowed too heavily.

There have been many many people who have lost pretty much everything who did nothing wrong. They lost their jobs and from there lost everything else. The people who defaulted on loans are just the tip of the iceberg.

I stand by the analogy, you don't blame all the victims because some of them appear to have brought it onto themselves.

.

They crashed the economy?

Individual Americans have been doing dumb shit for the past 70 years and more. But somehow they never succeeded in crashing the entire economy before.

Why do you suppose that is?

I totally don't understand this mentality. Where is this idea coming from?

You realize, don't you, that the Bush administration had 8 years to address Clinton's deregulations?

If they were such an obvious recipe for disaster, why wasn't the problem addressed then?

Exactly. The collateral damage was massive.

Again, check out Inside Job for a blow-by-blow of the Crime of the Last Couple Centuries.

Because they're all pretty much on the same team.:2 cents:

Precisely.

Splitting hairs. Or that is the trickle down effect.

Just being a smart ass now.

Thanks for that.

Yeah, but good luck getting people locked into partisan thought bubbles to see this. "It's the republicans. No, it's the democrats." Bullshit. This has all been happening at a level above politics and ideologies. And of course, following the money is not encouraged:(

Good post.

2 reasons...
1. Everything was going great. Nobody changes things when it's working good.

2. Too much money was being made by politician's friends...which in turn gives the politicians more money and power too.

It's those same career politicians sitting in the Senate and Congress who caused it to happen and who now blame everyone but themselves. And now they are the ones who are going to "fix" it? lol

So we're agreed then that this isn't about Democrats and Republicans per say ??

So . . . the question now is how do we get out of this mess without punishing the innocent parties, i.e. the American populace?

Keep in mind that if across the board sacrifice is required it needs to be:

a) Shared by all.
b) Preceded by vigorous prosecutions (or at least convincing condemnation) of the most direct culprits (i.e the big banks and Wall Street)

Otherwise, the masses will never sign on to it.

And, as we all know, politicians live in naked fear of the masses every four years.

This ain't gonna be easy for anybody.

I don't believe the banks and "wall street" are the problem at all.

It's the career politicians who whore themselves out to everybody that are the real problem. The big banks and "wall street" aren't doing anything that any of us wouldn't do...they look out for themselves and try to figure out ways to make more money.

Washington, D.C. has (over the decades) put itself in such a position of power that it literally holds the power of who is and who isn't successful. Which, of course, means that if you want the rules written to your benefit you have to give lots of money to a lot of lifetime politicians in The Senate and The House.

The REAL solution to all of this is term limits on Congress and The Senate.

I feel that if The Senate, The House and the President were all limited to ONE 6 year term it would take care of a lot of this bullshit.

But that ain't gonna happen. So career politicians will continue with their corruption and at the same time continue spending our country into more debt than we will ever be able to repay.

Exactly, when I bought my house 3 years ago I qualified for a $500,000 mortgage. I bought a house for $325,000 instead. Live within your means.

We're in this mess because the culture has shifted from inventing/producing/manufacturing to "scam a buck as quickly as possible with no actual work".

Truth is you have to blame both. The banks wanted to sell anyone a mortgage because they could just turn around and sell it to the next guy for a profit. Then you have to blame irresponsible people for taking a loan they could never afford.

Then you have guys like me who would never take a loan like that, pay taxes, etc., who end up getting fucked by the 2 dipshits that caused the mess.

i think my sig is in place here.

I like this post a lot, and I agree 100%.

Higher taxes + paired with low interest rates, basically help take the American dream away. That's money that can be saved. The higher your taxes, the harder it is to accumulate wealth.

People say "oh, its only 2%, oh its only 4%!" - think about this in terms of replicating a financial investment. 2-4% + per year in extra savings, then invested at a risk free rate (which by the way is being kept artificially low by the gov't), over time, thats a lot of missed $.

So today, everyone is basically getting taxed higher. And also, interest rates are so low, you can no longer go to the bank for a decent risk-free return.

Yes, its simple math that its going to be harder for the next generation to save and build up their wealth. Our parents were able to buy more affordable homes, go to the bank and get a different interest rate, etc.

Some of it is the president / governments fault, and a lot of it is simply more people vying for the same resources, plus the dynamics of our population changing. The government sure isn't making it any easier though. :2 cents:

didn't the US have 'higher taxes' paired with 'low interest rates' for most of the century?

and JUST deregulated enough to create this entire fiasco?

Inclined to agree.

No,
When the tax rate was high there were many deductions that were available. No one paid anywhere near the amount they are paying today.

is that some joke about inflation?

Are you just fucking around or should i pull some stats to knock your mouth-breather bullshit outta the park

I agree with you 100%. The .com boom had a lot to do with this. Before that, people invested in companies based on annual returns, related to the actual revenue of the company. In the late 90's, all of the sudden IPOs were happening to companies with no business plan, no history, no revenue and in many cases, no product. Stock prices became 100% detached from actual numbers of the business as did investors.

Couple that with a generation of people who got a participation trophy for everything they did, where every childrens tv show tells them they're "special", where teens are all suddenly getting credit cards and a culture where living beyond ones means became the rule and was everyone instead of just "that asshole down the street", and everything was obviously going to crash.

The younger a person is, the less aware they are of these massive cultural shifts and the more misplaced their blame is.

Its total insanity to me that people here put ZERO responsibility for everyone living beyond their means on the individual and in turn blame big, "evil" corporations who simply made money available to total idiots.

lets see yours stats

The government has also made privately held cash worthless. You can't grow cash anymore. The fed loans money for nothing to banks, banks in turn pay nothing to private individuals for deposits.

This is simply not true... a full recovery is jussssssst around the corner. And besides... green shoots!

I'll show you mine:

lets look at year 1980 and 2010 (just for easy comparison 30 years apart)

1980 1198B in tax revenues, population in 1980: 227M = 5.28k/person
2010 1928B in tax revenues, population in 2010: 309M = 6.24k/person

so, instead of 5.28k/person we are paying 6.24k/person = 18% increase...

so after taking population growth and inflation into account, we are paying 18% more in taxes than we did in 1980

source:
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfa....cfm?Docid=200
http://www.census.gov/popest/data/historical/

stats are the past! lets paly with the present

google 'why 70% tax rates won't work' and see how many articles you get

and google 'why 70% tax rates will work' and see how many articles you get

the entire internet can't, cough, be wrong!