Where did neocon Mark Perry get his figures?

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2011.htm

GrantMercury...you truly are a character. lol

:1orglaugh So you're going on record that labor is 100% of the cost of manufacturing?

No, but google will show you the stats. And labor costs (including benefits and matching govt. funds) are anywhere from 40% to 60% (the U.S. post office is on the high end of that) for a business.

But you wouldn't know that. lol

Here's something else you don't know...Restaurant and bar workers don't make the federal minimum wage either.
According to you, they would be "living in poverty" because that's how the govt.'s stats would show them.

REALITY: A good bartender can pull down $500 a night in tips, so can a hot girl who is a waitress. Those numbers don't get reflected on govt. stats. They only show what the bartenders and waiters and waitresses make on their paycheck.

Then throw in a few hundred thousand girls dancing in strip clubs around the country who get NO pay at all. It's 100% tips in cash.

I think that with millions of people who are servers (waitresses and bartenders) added with a few hundred thousand strippers...the govt.'s numbers are not correct.

Have you thought about that at all before you make all these big pronouncements? You don't seem to have much real life experience. :)

"Move you up quick" to where? How many middle management jobs do you think exist at any one time? Only a few can "move up quick" because of the limited number of positions.

And Walmart healthcare is a joke. So many of their employees get paid too little to be able to afford the sucky plans they're offered. That's ok. There's always taxpayer funded free clinics.

How many Walmart employees can spare a percentage to put into a 401k?

And they'll try to fuck the workers if they can get away with it. And I'm sure they typically do.

Walmart sued over temp workers hours
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_1...workers-hours/

And this is the richest corporation in the entire world. They can't do any better than that? The fucking greed is horrible.

So admit you've been talking out of your worldly, business savvy ass every time you've suggested that raising the minimum wage results in a dollar-for-dollar increase in the prices of consumer goods.

No, I"m not talking out of my ass. Every dollar that is raised in the cost of goods will most certainly result in an increase in price of EVERYTHING.

You are just trolling GrantMercury. There is no way in hell that anybody could really be this dense.

Please do a business related topic. Please! :1orglaugh

What is a "minimum wage" for?

If you believe it is the minimal wage a person can earn in order to survive, then the "minimum wage" is way too low, it should be raised, and it should go up at least at the rate of inflation.

If you believe it is just a number with an abstract value, then it is totally irrelevant.

No one person in the US, making minimum wage, can pay for rent, food, utility bills, transportation, and healthcare - let alone any additional needs or bills, so who is left paying for the balance?

How much does it cost per year, to house a person in our prison system? Maybe 5 times the amount a person who makes minimum wage makes in a year?

Go figure...

That's not true. I pointed out earlier that I played in bands professionally from 1978 until the 1990's and made FAR LESS than minimum wage at the end of the day.
I lived like a King. :)

Could do it right now too. But I wouldn't stay at minimum wage for long. I'd bust my ass and move up the ladder.

Agreed.

This thread really has you thinking about the youth of today. From threads like this, the best I can figure the world is now set up as some sort of nanny state where there is little personal accountability or responsibility. It goes something like this....

Employer:
Is supposed to provide you a minimum wage that gives you MTV cribs standard of living.
Is supposed to provide you free/low cost health care.
Is supposed to provide you a few paid weeks vacation.
Is supposed to provide you unemployment/disability coverage.
Is supposed to provide you a 401k/IRA/retirement dollar matching plan or profit share.

What your employers does not provide falls on the government to take care of.....

Is supposed to provide you living expenses if you feel you're over qualified for a McJob.
Is supposed to provide you free higher education in an effort to get a job or career.
Is supposed to provide you a retirement fund in case you do not invest in your future.
Is supposed to provide you financial bail outs for your poor decisions in life like bad mortgage.

It leaves you to ponder this queston.... what is it exactly that is YOUR responsibility as an employee now-a-days?

It seems that the employer and government is supposed to do just about everything else other than wipe your ass for you compliments of the tax payer. In exchange for your few hours of labor that you get paid for, I see that the teder totter is lopsided in favor of the worker big time.

I'd hazard a guess that even at $8.00/hour that TRUE COST of that minimum wage employee is more like $12.00-15.00/hour expense to the employer once you are done adding in all of the employer matching, insurance, taxes, medicare, SS, and any benefits and premiums given as a value add.

:disgust

Move you up in PAY... You don't have to have a New title to get a raise.....

Go to school get a Better JOB....
The insurance they offer is the same as Most places I know. Where are you from anyway? Do you know any real people or just stuff you read on the internet?
I think most insurance policies suck, but yeah most are about the same.

Then you go and say
Tax payer free funded Clinics,, HAHAH OBAMA care FTW -- cuz its only the rich paying for it right??

Hell put your Profit sharing in the 401K
I have been putting a % in my 401K since the days of min wage, and I have 3 children. It is called No Big screen TV, No Cigs, Tattoos, Alcohol, Use blankets instead of the heater, so on so on.....
But hey I was raised on a farm I know what it is to sacrifice and still feel like I am living, and not Living off someone...

Funny how the Gov puts signs up that says do not feed the animals, they will become dependent on the Food.... I live in a city now, I still converted half my backyard to a garden, had the city limit of 5 chickens, and on and on...

But hey what can I get for Free...

Companies have to make earnings for the Stock Holders..... Walmart is NOT going to raise pay unless it is good for them. Being forced to do this, they will raise prices, or cut a few employees. If you haven't noticed most of the workers stocking the shelvs are not moving to fast....

Companies and stock holders don't have to be so damn greedy, but that's what America is all about. He who dies with the most money wins. And fuck your neighbor.

You can't do it. You can't admit you were talking shit. :1orglaugh

Actually, I've come around to your school of thought. I think the working people need a higher quality of life, and therefore they should get a pay cut so they can live more cheaply. The relief they'll feel once they're making a few bucks less per hour. We can't do it fast enough. The working poor are desperate and need relief. :upsidedow

And God bless the GOP. This compassionate Republican wants to relieve the downtrodden of their burdensome overtime pay. Truly moving:

Eric Cantor Will Propose Federal Law That Ends Overtime Pay For All Hourly Workers
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...+Overtime+Pay+

I bet these guys pay next to nothing for their fat spread. They must have a teabagger like Cantor on their side, keeping their pay fabulously low:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2zbp0SoFO3.../s400/pic1.jpg

A living wage isn't the responsibility of the employer...and people shouldn't turn to the government for help. What's your answer?

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2zbp0SoFO3.../s400/pic1.jpg

Minimum wage was NEVER meant to be a "living wage". It was meant to be a starting level for young people just getting into the work force. If we push it into the level of a "living wage", then people will be trapped there for their entire careers, and young people will never get any job experience since no one will hire them for the same wage that they have to pay everyone else. Right now less than 5% of people earn minimum wage, but as the union lobbies and the government push it higher, watch more and more people being stuck there, and more and more teenagers out of work.


I really feel horribly sad for the people on this thread that have been sold this idea that they are just victims, drifting along to the mercy of others that will control their fate, instead of being taught that their fate is in their own hands and that peaceful, voluntary interactions between adults is the best way to have both freedom and success....



:Oh crap



.

You tend to forget that we live in a global economy. We compete with companies in Ningbo. You have this great eutopian vision on how things should be. The facts are that ship has sailed. Ningbo doesn't pay overtime. Ningbo doesn't pay their employees anywhere near our minimum wage. Ningbo also doesn't offer healthcare benefits.

You want your computers cheap..made in CHina, your Iphone,your television,the clothes you wear. Many of the parts in the cars you drive. All from China.

You want to go to a Walmart and save big money. Well,you saved it.

Welcome to the newage. It's not going to improve for that group at the bottom. No matter what Obama and his team want.

I hear you. I DON'T want to go to WalMart and buy cheap, slave-made garbage, and I never do. I buy local whenever I can, even if it costs a little bit more. I think it would be fucking great to buy a US-made iPhone, even if it cost a little more. It would give people decent jobs right here. I'd feel good about buying the latest gadget, and the people on the assembly line would have money to spend on my phonesex. :thumbsup

And sure, it's a global economy, but there's lots we can do to keep the race to the bottom from ruining our middle class. We can protect our markets. China does it. Lots of countries do. America? We give companies tax breaks to move operations overseas. True, there is tons of corporate money corrupting out political system, influencing this type of legislation, but the main reason it happens because people just don't pay attention. People don't take part. Most people can't even name their lawmakers. That, IMO, is the biggest problem facing this country.

How many hard working blue collar types know about this?

http://www.cwa-union.org/news/entry/...d#.UG3bdk3A-So

http://www.bartcop.com/china-train-walmart.jpg

The minimum is the bottom floor. It influences all wages - even the wages of those who earn more than the minimum.

Workers have been busting their ass. Productivity has risen significantly over the last few decades. Corporate profits have skyrocketed. It's time to bump the minimum up, so the WORKERS can finally partake of the pie, too. Not only would it be right, it would, as is the subject of the post, be good for business and the economy. This is a consumer driven economy, and the consumers don't have money to spend. There's a logjam, and it needs to be broken.

http://www.bartcop.com/greed-walmart-apple_n.jpg

I'm afraid you're right. When all is said and done, that's the problem. The "haves" can go on endlessly arguing that there's all kinds of reasons why things need to be the way they are. Some will give you racist arguments. Others are more sophisticated and will get into drawn out, esoteric economics.

But really? They've got theirs. Everybody else can GFY.:321GFY

It's a hard thing for anyone to admit to themselves, so you have to cut them some slack. Also, we all have a bit of that attitude in us, so one must be careful judging.

But we shouldn't give up. We all need to at least try to work toward a fairer, more peaceful world.

why haven't you written a auto-bio yet? I'd read it.. hehe

You do understand that based on previous posts, this is a non issue. The free market is working and people make more then the minimum. Also labor is a world issue now, so if you raise our wages too high we will lose more labor to over seas.

I swear to God, I think I've lived 10 lives already. lol

Lived everywhere, married 4 times, and I just keep recreating myself like a damn chameleon :1orglaugh

How could it be?