I was waiting for that and you did not disappoint. I guess he didn't know who he was talking to?

Edit: about cisco, my friend was a senior sales Engineer before he moved on and it was not uncommon to sell a $7 million contract to a school district every couple of weeks. People didn't even know what they were buying... They would just defer to his expertise. So yeah, at $20/share they aren't going anywhere.

It is amazing stuff. I hope in a couple of years small businesses have it just like they might have ring central.

Cisco is a beast. They are now the industry leader in both the switching & routing market, the video conferencing market & the server market. There stock hasn't moved. They have piles of cash but no hype on the street. Same goes for MSoft. They stay stable, they make money. They pay dividends like clockwork. I also do believe Microsoft pays a higher dividend then Cisco does if I am not mistaken.

Those deals are very common. But they usually go to Cisco Gold partners or direct. 6 figure deals are a little more common in the realm I play in. But the margins on the hardware are very very slim. The bigger the deal. The more the customer usually knows about negotiating hardware pricing. Especially schools. They usually fall under GSA Contracts where the pricing is set in stone from the vendor. The money is in the pro services.

Why are margins so thin though? Aren't they just making the shit in some third world country like everybody else?

There seems to be so much waste in corporate America. No accountability. I guess employees don't feel like they are spending their own money like they do in smaller businesses.

Video conferencing is a great example. Companies spend $20k for a conference room setup when they can go get a HD camcorder they use as a Web cam and two 60" flat panels from Target. Total cost... Less then $2k on the hardware.

Margins are not thin for the manufacturers. But most IT Manufacturers don't sell direct. They sell through a channel utilizing distributors. The resellers purchase from distributors.

The distributors work off small margins. Their goal is to do volume. They have some competition but there are just a few of them who do a good majority of the business. Resellers are the ones that have to battle out. A lot pricing online, etc. If you are an IT Director or CIO you do care what you spend because you have a certain budget and have to obtain certain goals within that budget. So the spending is not as free as you would expect and not as free as it used to be. People buy now more for need then for want. But of course its not like spending your own money.

There are systems that you an get for a decent price now. Fully HD and utilizing less bandwidth then most. When Cisco/Tandberg is too expensive. I sell Lifesize. They have units that start on the lower 4 figure end with the same quality. You cannot do on a webcam what you can do on video conferencing. Point to Point HD, File sharing, Presentation sharing, When one person talks they take over main screen etc...a million features. Things that you cannot do with webcams.

But as ilnjscb said. I'm just speculating and dont know what I'm talking about :)

Which is why you are pushing MS, because it is what you get paid with - if you were doing the paying, you'd know why MS business share is threatened. See how the thread has devolved into you two confirming each others opinions? Good way to learn something, eh?

As for the split, dude, the split does not change the market value, that is not a close quote, that is with the splits calculated in. Look at the capitalization, which has remained the same.

Windows 8 has had terrible sales and adoption, similar to Vista. What new markets does MS own? Where have they added share in the last 10 years? So many IT firms that thought they could stranglehold the biz market because they were already there have been disrupted and kicked - that isn't a workable strategy.

MS has a good strategy with Dynamics CRM, with BizSpark, with Azure, with gaming. That is, stop being a "titan" and start making a great product. Encourage and support innovation. Can you, as a self proclaimed expert honestly tell me that MS does that in the biz sphere?

Fucking awesome. NOBODY is too big. Look at Kodak. "Kodak moment" was once a household term.

The end of Microshit would be a good thing.

Typo.. I think you meant '2007'.

I am not 'pushing' ms. I sell what the customers buy. No one here is buying what I am selling. It just is what it is. The new market for them is cloud, as there Microsoft 365 product is selling like fucking hotcakes. As well as Lync. You haven't made a legit point yet. And just typing up some non-sense. How about Sharepoint? Familiar with that?

Yes, I am, very familiar. Let's look at Office 365 - a "next release" of office. Since you don't value my perspective or my "nonsense", let's go to a third party:

"Computerworld April 2, 2013 03:55 PM ET - Office 365 has accounted for about 25% of all Office retail unit sales in the U.S. since its introduction two months ago, but the new "rent-not-own" strategy has not boosted overall sales, an analyst said today.

Stephen Baker of the NPD Group, a research firm that regularly surveys U.S. retailers for software sales figures, noted that the split between Office 2013 and Office 365 is running about 3:1 so far, in the former's favor.

"Office 365 has accounted for about 25% of the [unit] volume," said Baker today. "Office 2013 has had about three-fourths of the retail business."

"At first blush, those numbers sound reasonably good," said Wes Miller, an analyst with Directions on Microsoft. "But it's kind of like Surface numbers."

I know, this guy is just spouting nonsense too, right? I mean, who cares abut sales? and calling a 10 year late move to SAS innovation, now that makes sense.

Your sharepoint example illustrates my point. Sharepoint, Lync, Yammer, and Skype are all products that resulted from MS realizing its own weakness by watching the market. They couldn't buy Notes so they got Ray Ozzie. The other 3 they purchased.

All those packages you mention together don't bring in 10% of MS revenue, and they never will.

Business doesn't adopt MS to get Sharepoint, they adopt Sharepoint because they have MS in house, and because vendors like you push it on them. Sharepoint doesn't create new clients, it raises revenue slightly or replaces lost revenue. Dynamics CRM on the other hand, people actually seek out.

My point, again: 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. If they don't change the culture, they will not own the business market any more.

The produc has been out for about a year. It already has 25%.. It costs less for 1 year of cloud bases then it does to buy a license. Hence the sales numbers. As the time goes by the people renting will pay more then the people buying. This is how rent works.

I am sorry to tell you. There is nothing that is going to replace active directry, windows server, office and exchange. That was my initial point. If you think different, youre lost. Do you think all the people who develop apps for business based on windows server are going to start from scratch for some new OS? And this is how they own the business market. Now with there apps for SaaS.

I don't believe. They have money. Maybe the today's model of their business will be obsolete, but they will change before they become obsolete.

They have Skype, XBOX, Windows, Office, SkyDrive, Outlook, Microsoft Studios, etc. I bet an arm and a leg that they won't be obsolete, at least not at this century.

Windows has +91% of usage share of operating systems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_s...rating_systems

Like we say here in Brazil, for a good understander, a half word is enough.

I guess we'll see.

So will android just dwarf windows or windows will become obsolete?

Maybe in the mobile/tablet/netbook market. Sure. I think it already does.

Not trying to start up again but what do you think when you see articles like these, all of which came out in the last few days:

"Roskill also said that Office 365 "penetration is still in the low single digits" -- in other words, less than 5%. "
Old ways die hard: Office 365 not penetrating the enterprise yet

"Computerworld - Stormed by a shift to tablets and smartphones, and threatened, even in its enterprise bastion, by new demands from workers, Microsoft may lose its place at the table reserved for major technology players, an analyst argued today"
Microsoft must fight to remain influential, say analysts

"If a new timetable report is accurate, Microsoft's making the wrong move, say analysts"
Office for iPad in 2014? Big mistake

"Microsoft's Windows 8 took another knock Wednesday as research firm IDC laid much of the blame for the first quarter's historically-horrible PC numbers at the feet of the beleaguered operating system"
Windows 8 takes blame for 'brutal' PC sales slide

Microsoft is already obsolete as far as I am concerned. No one NEEDS their software. Linux is already there for free, People say it's harder but it only seems that way because they are so used to Windows and they need to get used to Linux by investing some time and effort.

And as I mentioned before, these really aren't such a big deal in the big picture. What I said before was that Microsoft Active Directory is not being moved out of the Corporate world anytime soon. No matter what Windows 8 is like, maybe some end users wont upgrade. But all companies in America use Windows based desktop, except for graphic design firms and other small marketing/pr/fashion houses. And if a company is not using Office 365, its because they have office already. Not because they are using OpenOffice. Hate Microsoft all you want, but nothing is replacing active directory or exchange, and they are the central part of all corporate networks.

you're stupid. thanks for making us all aware of it. many people NEED there software. not many people NEED linux.

For the record, I don't hate MS. Let's be clear - I think Ballmer should step down, and I think the guys who run sales and OEM for Windows and Office should be canned.

I already said I thought Dynamics CRM, Skype, BizSpark, etc are all well run. The people running those divisions are aggressively adding value. I think Ballmer's my way or the highway culture should go away and MS could be innovators with a pile of cash and a huge rolodex. Their ability to "Strongarm" and "Stranglehold" will be gone in 5 years, IMHO.

True all.

Other points.... Silverlight did not take over Flash as MS expected when HTML5 rolled out. Windows Azure Cloud Services barely ranks in the Top 10 of Cloud Service Providers (Amazon AWS kicks their ass). Windows phone is anemic at best. Yeah, Bill's mattress is stuffed with cash. Windows Server and Office 365 as private cloud products are faring well. But, I can see as the title of this thread states, that MS could be obsolete by 2017 if they don't start playing catch-up in some areas or remain the leader of the pack in others.

Not to be a dick (as you are being) but it's always interesting when someone calls another person stupid in the same post where they misuse basic words such as 'their'.

People don't need any particular brand of software. All they need is software which does what they wish in a usable manner. There exists no need that the software must come from Microsoft and that is my point.

Amazon Cloud servers sucks also. So I wouldn't read much into what these top 10 lists say, as a lot of the smaller companies that provide cloud servers wouldn't be on there but have an excellent product with better support. I've never used Azure though. So I don't know. But most people in adult are one man operations with dedicated servers and really dont understand the inner workings of a real corporate network. Which is where Microsoft has a strong hold and really is not going anywhere. There is no replacement for Active Directory or Exchange. Companies arent going to start teaching employees how to use a new OS. Everyone in the world work force can pretty much get on a windows desktop, start outlook, send an email. Open word, excel etc and start working. They arent going to change this. There is also no real competition for it. The thing is, these things go in cycles. Just like Vista. No companies used Vista. They went from XP to 7. Maybe they wont get new desktops with Windows 8, but they will with windows 10. It just is what it is..Now in the consumer sector, with certain devices. mobile, tablets etc. There shit sucks. Always has, always will. And no matter what how good or bad Microsoft cloud products are. When it comes to getting customers, microsoft has a field sales team. They get face to face with customer, they will get customers...

I can tell you one thing. I cant spell, or use proper grammar for the life of me. I never claimed I did. But I know Software, Hardware and Networking. Now that you are backtracking talking about brands, I am talking about what the software actually does, just like you originally were. And comparing Linux to Microsoft is like comparing a dick and a finger, which makes you sound stupid. There is nothing that 'Does' what Microsoft 'Does'. Problem is. You think its just people sitting at home using windows. Wacking their beefstick like you do. Which couldn't be further from the truth. I am a dick. Big deal. I know network infrastructure. It is too late. People know how to use Microsoft. They arent going to change.

When you call people stupid and act like a dick you shouldn't be surprised when people point out the irony of you not being able to communicate better than a sixth grader. Other than that I have better things to do than to waste my time arguing with some ignorant dick about what software he likes. :upsidedow

lol, atleast I admit I am a dick. But there really is no argument here.

Aaaaand he did ...
 

Ballmer stepping down after years of missteps

Ballmer retiring within 12 months

Ballmer retiring

I'm not sure how you could call this anything other than what it is, an admission that the company, though still important, has been foundering for years. Some good products and good teams notwithstanding, it hasn't executed well at all.

>>>>For the record, I don't hate MS. Let's be clear - I think Ballmer should step down,

I always thought Myspace was king. Then Facebook came around and kicked Myspace's ass.

This article only talks about their OS. However, these days M$ is so much more than just an operating system. They have Explorer and Bing, Hotmail and outlook, and so much more. Then again, another company can come along and build a better OS - I'm surprised Google hasn't done this yet.

They will fade out in the next 10-20 years

Microsoft earns 3 BILLION dollars each year from Windows licenses to corporate accounts at huge companies that will not be changing their IT infrastructure any time soon. The amount of easy recurring revenue they generate each year from clients nobody else is even competing to take over will give them all the capital they need to fail as many times as it takes before they finally get it right.

Adapting is easier when you have 3 Billion a year in profit locked up before the game starts.

This is what happens
 

when you think you "own" a market and fail to innovate or rely solely on your market power

Ballmer forced out after $900M Surface RT debacle

"He was definitely pushed out by the board,"

"It was the $900 million write-down. That caught the attention of the board, and based on Ballmer's over-enthusiastic public commentary on Windows RT and Surface RT, they lost a lot of credibility. So did Ballmer. How can you be that far off what consumers want? Was it that you're not listening to your team? Was it because the team was afraid to give him advice? Was it because the team saw a different reality? Or was it that the team lacked the skill set to anticipate the failure?"

"There have been a whole series of market shifts that Microsoft has either missed entirely or misjudged their importance," said Al Gillen, an IDC analyst.

Rebecca Wettemann, a Nucleus Research analyst, said Ballmer should have exited the stage several years ago, because he has lacked the vision to see market fluctuations and failed to properly execute on opportunities"

Terrible news:)

When the value of your business increases by many billions at the announcement that your CEO is retiring... maybe the problem is obvious.