Automatic weapons? Really?


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Obama Responds to His Gun Control Defeat With Self-Righteous Solipsism

Jacob Sullum|Apr. 17, 2013 8:05 pm

White HouseWhite House"There are good people on both sides of this thing," President Obama said in a gun control speech a couple of weeks ago, "but we have to be able to put ourselves in the other person's shoes." He worried that "both sides of the debate sometimes don't listen to each other" and wondered, "How do you build trust?" Not this way:

"There were no coherent arguments as to why we wouldn't do this. It came down to politics—the worry that that vocal minority of gun owners would come after them in future elections....They caved to pressure, and they started looking for an excuse—any excuse—to vote no....This was a pretty shameful day for Washington."

That is how Obama explained the Senate's refusal to approve the gun control measures he supports. According to the president, no one honestly questioned the merits of his proposals; the opposition all "came down to politics," meaning a desperate desire to retain power. His opponents not only failed to make a convincing case, he says; they offered "no coherent arguments" at all. Since Obama's case for gun control consisted mainly of invoking dead children and grieving parents, that charge displays an astonishing lack of self-awareness. Here is how Obama responds to critics, such as Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who fault him for using victims of gun violence as props:

"Are they serious? Do we really think that thousands of families whose lives have been shattered by gun violence don't have a right to weigh in on this issue? Do we think their emotions, their loss, is not relevant to this debate?"

Of course they have a right to speak their minds. But no, their emotions are not relevant when it comes to empirical questions such as the impact of background checks, "assault weapon" bans, and limits on magazines. Their pain tells us nothing about the effectiveness or constitutionality of such measures. To the contrary, it obscures those issues with an impenetrable emotional fog.

Obama does a fine job of empathizing with the parents of Adam Lanza's victims. But that is something any decent human being should be able to manage. Where he has trouble, despite his lip service to the idea of putting himself in the other guy's shoes, is in empathizing with his opponents. He not only says they are wrong, which is to be expected. He refuses to concede that people who disagree with him about gun control are acting in good faith, based on what they believe to be sound reasons—that they, like him, are doing what they think is right. His self-righteous solipsism is striking even for a politician."



.:2 cents:

Online gun stores are required to follow the same Federal regulations as brick and mortar stores. When you buy a gun online, it is shipped to your local gun shop. You then go in, do the paperwork and background check before taking possession of the gun.

Yes, there are private online sales but they require a face to face transaction which then removes the "online" portion as that was just where the buyer and seller met. Unless the seller ships directly to the private purchaser which is against the law.

I have a problem with the across the board applied "gun nut, redneck, illiterate country bumpkin, etc" label being applied to anyone who owns and wants to keep their firearms.


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That's interesting. I didn't know how that works. The shooter from Virginia Tech bought his weapons from that place in Milwaukee. It was a big deal on the local news for quite a while. They made it sound like all you had to do was have a credit card and a package arrives at your home,like anything you would get from Amazon.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Not sure what that store may have been doing wrong for the local Government to close them down but no, it's nothing like an Amazon purchase.

Got any relevant links to the story on the store being shut down? I'd be interested in seeing what you've read that steered you in that direction.

Aaron, the last 2 times I have purchased a gun from my local dealer my information was called into the FBI/ATF for approval. Both times my dealer said he would probably not hear back and to wait for the 3 day hold period to expire and he would sell me the guns based on a current drivers license.

He was correct, the government never responded and I was sold the guns anyway. Have you ever experienced this?

If this current system doesn't work for licensed dealers what chance does a system for private owners to private owners have except as a political feel good measure?

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Goddamn what am i looking at? is that a machine gun revolver that has been invented in there?

So much fail

Yes, I'm familiar with this. It's not the the system didn't work, it did. Here's what happened:

Something in the NICS check caught the attention of the person processing it. Whatever it was, it was not serious enough for them to deny the purchase. Had you been a convicted felon for instance, it would have been denied.

There are a number of things that could cause a hold. It can be a previous DUI, similar SSN to a felon, a change of address, typos, etc...

When you are placed on hold, the transaction is kicked up the chain of command at NICS for supervisor review. They then have 3 days to either deny or let it go through. The reason the shop owner told you they probably will not call back is because he knows that most holds go through. Typically the only time they receive a call back is on a denial after secondary review. It's not like it went into a hold pattern and was then ignored.

The "based on my current drivers license" part suggests that it could be an address thing. Is your current address on your DL or did you use a different addy on the 4473?

Then there's this:

Location: Florida/Kentucky

Dual residency can also send up a flag for further review.

If I were you, I'd do a little research and find out what is causing your recent hold ups. Usually it's something fairly minor that can be corrected.

Multiple addresses in 2 different states?

And thanks.

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Yep, that could do it.

Kinda like a credit report showing multiple addresses in multiple states. If they aren't sure where you really live, they are less likely to extend credit or they may need additional time to review your application.

Just reading this now..everything I knew about this came from the local television news.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwauk...164054036.html

Interesting business plan there. It's obvious that they have taken some pretty significant steps to go above and beyond what the law requires. This is not something that most shop owners are likely to follow. Personally, I think it's a great idea.

It's a lot like the content business. When I sold to everybody who had a few bucks, I had a lot of headaches. The minute I eliminated the "cheaper" clients and started hand picking those I work with, things got much more simple and I was able to focus more attention on the higher valued clients.

Most gun stores focus on quantity of customers rather than quality. I've seen customers walk out of gun store A due to a long line only to drop 100k at gun store B 20 minutes later. Those same customers return regularly, spend a lot of money, and refer their friends.

I just hope that GrantMercury NEVER gets his hands on a gun.

The hatred and vitriol that he spews in every post he makes (and notice he NEVER makes a business post) is downright scary!

The guy is a classic profile of a mass killer.

It's called projection. The ones that are really unhinged with the anti-gun crap want them out of society because they think of what they would do with one in their hands so assume everyone elses brain is fucked like theirs

http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingag...elfdefense.htm

I hate the NRA, They are just as bad as NAMBLA (not taking that one back EVER!)

I love the UNITED STATES of AMERICA !

Ok that's great. But you still just divert and maneuver around the question. Just straight up answer this, if possible. What's the problem with every single firearm purchase being checked?

I love guns too. At various times in my life I've owned a Glock .40, tz75, Beretta 92f, Mossberg 500 and an AR15 I built myself through mail-order. I even re-loaded my own rounds sometimes. But I think ALL gun purchases should be analyzed and scrutinized. Why don't you? Or do you? We don't know because you twist things around every time you're asked.

You're saying it's un-Constitutional to check the backgrounds of gun buyers?

is the 'no call back' a quasi form of approval?

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Right. The old "liberal media" bullshit Limbaugh started blathering about 30 years ago.

The media are a bunch of corporate whores. The news is about making money. It's about selling shit - including war.

If the corporate media weren't such corporate whores, the Iraq invasion never would have happened, we'd have 4,488 more troops home with their families, and $3 trillion taxpayer dollars to put toward healthcare and education.

Give up on the "liberal media" shit. Rush lied.

Ed, FYI:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...nt-guns-are-s/

Thanks for the input, Sly, and I feign appreciation for your feigned concern.

I'm not "this angry all the time." But sometimes, sure. It tends to happen when serious, emotional issues like mass murder collide with petulance.

It's insane that anyone thinks it's not a good idea to prohibit gun sales to individuals with violent criminal histories or significant mental illness. Encouragingly, 90% on Americans aren't that thick. Yet we have whores in DC taking money from a lobbying group that exists solely to maximize gun sales. And we have retards right here on GFY who think it's great, and that the disappointment on the face on the POTUS is funny. Why doesn't that make YOU angry?

Actually my concern was not fake at all. Unlike you, I have no problem showing concern for people that may have different ideologies than my own.

Anger is a waste of my energy. I put my energy towards positive things. Like making my life and the life of those that I care about better. Ranting on GFY about "retards" is not positive or making anyone's life better.

I'll answer that...

First off, I don't personally know anybody who thinks "it's not a good idea to prohibit gun sales to individuals with violent criminal histories or significant mental illness."

What would make me angry is passing laws that do more than requiring universal background checks and that's exactly what this last round of bullshit tried doing. This is typical behavior from the current administration. They love passing all sorts of other laws wrapped around a single point.

I received this email today from the National Shooting Sports Foundation:

Thank your Senator Today!

Yesterday, your senator, Dean Heller, voted against a number of gun-control measures that would have banned modern sporting rifles and other commonly owned semi-automatic rifles and standard sized magazines, as well as to shut down background checks from storefront retailers during weekends. Senator Heller voted to support the Second Amendment despite relentless political pressure from President Obama and gun-control advocates like Mayor Bloomberg.

Please call Senator Heller at 202-224-6244 today and thank him for standing up for our industry and the Second Amendment.

Gimme a break. I posted this article yesterday. Your reply was "anti-gun asshole". Short, sweet, and stupid. How about a thoughtful, reasoned comment instead?

If you take offense at the gun-nut label, stop acting like one. Then it won't bother you when you hear "gun nut" or "redneck" because you'll know it doesn't apply to you.

BTW - you still haven't answered the question. Go back and look.

I won't buy a gun for the same reason I don't buy lottery tickets. Lousy odds.

So don't worry, precious. You're safe. At least from me. But keep in mind that you live in a country where anyone can get as many guns as they want, no matter how demonstrably dangerous they are. The GOP whores keep it that way because they're paid to. So be careful out there. :BangBang:

Yeah. It's the people who don't want guns who are crazy. Got it.

Want guns = sane :)
Don't want = crazy :Hollering
Evil1 = dumbass :error

You mean the same way it's been for over 200 years?

I'm okay with that.

I just wouldn't want to have a hate-filled person like you going "postal" on me.

Anger is a normal human emotion. If you don't get angry about 20 first-graders turned to hamburger in a matter of minutes, that's some trick. You're superhuman, dude.

Maybe you should be angry at the crazy person who did that crime instead of ranting on GFY at people who don't share your view that the govt. needs to control all of us.

And BTW - I asked you a question, and you dodged it.

At least you admit you don't give a fuck. I appreciate that.

But Rob, any hate-filled person CAN "go postal" on you. No matter what kind of criminal or mental health history they have. Thank the NRA, the GOP, and don't forget a pat on the back for yourself.

And I asked you a question and you dodged it.

How many democrats does it take to pass ANY bill through the senate.


And my comment.. obama could not persuade his own damn team to line up with him..(again)

Did I say "the government needs to control all of us?" What's with the stupid exaggerations? Why?

And there's not a single thing I or anyone else can do about that murderous nut now. But what we can do is have adult discussions about how we can reduce the chances of another tragedy. But who wants to do that? People would rather talk shit and act like it's a game.

Really?

Wow, I didn't know the GOP and the NRA were around when the constitution was written.

You need emotional and mental help brother. You are definitely losing touch with reality.

You do realize that ironically you just described your own posts...

It was a GOP filibuster, Minte. If there is a Dem who is truly to blame it's that little sap Harry Reid. He had the chance to get meaningful filibuster reform done, and he simply wouldn't - after he promised he would! Perhaps he's afraid of what the Repiggies could do when they get back in power (because the pendulum always swings), but I think he profoundly sucks and needs to go. And yes, I personally think Obama should have turned up the heat on Harry, but he didn't. It's extremely disappointing to me. And the 5 pussy blue-dog Dems who bowed to the NRA are pitiful. All true. But the fact remains it was another sleazy Republican filibuster that needed to be overcome. And the fact that you think it's all funny doesn't say much for you.

No, I didn't. I said anger is a waste of my energy. I don't get angry. I have better things to do with my life than worry about politicians in Washington DC that I have minimal control over. I put my energy towards creating a good life for myself, the ones I care about, and contributing to society in a positive way.