Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634169)

Once they changed the constitution and added the 16th amendment in 1913 to make it "legal" to tax people on their income...it was just a matter of time until we ended up with a giant bloated govt. full of crooks "legally" stealing money.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634245)

Perhaps people should strive to be better than the average worker and find their own tax loopholes.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634249)

Lets call it what it is, legalized theft.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19634252)

so what your basically saying is paying taxes is just punishment for being a stupid worker bee.

Originally Posted by SuckOnThis (Post 19634247)

Sorry, didn't realize English isn't your native language.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634270)

There will always be people in the summer heat digging ditches, breaking their backs, and paying the highest percentage of their earnings to the IRS, while their bosses sit in the shade, discuss golf, and pay considerably less. Unfair as that may be, that's life.

So what I'm saying is, it sucks to be a ditch digger.

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19634238)

He also said he and his g/f or wife write off breakfast everyday because they talk about work for 3 minutes. Don't trust anyone that isn't a CPA or been thru a major IRS audit for tax advise.

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Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634321)

Does anybody in the United States actually get a shovel and dig a ditch for a living? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't believe I've EVER seen that in real life anywhere in this country.

I have seen highly paid union guys with giant bulldozers digging ditches right here in Las Vegas (flood control). And I've seen highly paid guys with bulldozers digging ditches in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Michigan, Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama, and lots of other states I've lived in.

But NEVER saw a guy with a shovel digging a ditch and getting paid for it. :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634269)

That's exactly what it is.

They don't spend all that money on "building roads" or any of that horseshit that they use to justify things.

They spent 3.6 TRILLION dollars last year. Gonna spend MORE this year!

There shouldn't be one hungry or homeless person in the U.S. with that much money being spent.
Everybody should have solar panels on their homes and businesses with that much money being spent.

But where does it all go?
"Defense" contractors.
It's imperative that we spend hundreds of billions of dollars to have military bases all over the world. :(

We must protect Germany from...nothing. But yet there we are. 70 years AFTER WW2 ended.

It is exactly what you say: Legalized Theft.

And if this was a private company making even 1/100th of that much money...these fake liberals on GFY would be screaming for their heads.

But as long as it's the govt. TAKING that money from people...it's all good! :pimp

Originally Posted by L-Pink (Post 19633952)

That sure accounts for part of their large cash balance.

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Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634321)

Does anybody in the United States actually get a shovel and dig a ditch for a living? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't believe I've EVER seen that in real life anywhere in this country.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19634310)

i don't know what ditch diggers really have to do with anything, if you like extremes i guess its somewhere to go but anyone earning a salary or per hour wage is in the same boat as that ditch digger be it a half million salary or 10 buck per hour job. personally i think we're all in this 'tax hell' together and should be all be getting fucked to the same degree or do away with it completely.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634429)

just because you don't like what the gov spends the money on does not make taxation legalized theft.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634456)

It was a metaphor, obviously a bad one. :1orglaugh

If they must tax us, there should be a flat tax and that's all there is to it. But until that happens, we ALL have access to and have to abide by the same tax code. The only difference between Apple and the average American is that Apple utilizes the tax code to their extreme benefit while the average American doesn't do anything other than pay what he is told he owes. However, no one is stopping him from from using the same tax laws as Apple to reduce his tax burden or even pack up and move the hell out of the country where he too can pay no taxes in some situations.

For the tax year 2013 I legally won't pay a penny in Federal taxes unless I make over $97,600. If I do go over that, I only pay on the income that is over that amount, plus I still get to deduct a bunch of things from whatever that amount is. No real complaints here. I had a problem, I found a solution. To quote my grumpy old neighbor who lost his business and home to the IRS, "if you don't like it, leave." So I did.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19634480)

the average worker has no control over what he pays in taxes, its taken off their paychecks before they even get them.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634475)

You're right, it's more like slavery and legalized theft.

But for the sake of debate, if I came to your house with a gun and forced you to give me 30% your money, what would you call it?

If you are forced to give something that belongs to you to someone else, or an organization, that is theft and/or slavery any way you want to spin it.

You will be punished by fines, penlites, losing your assets, and even imprisonment for not allowing them to take your hard earned money. They will even use force if necessary. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE. I suppose you could call it rape, but that sounds a little extreme. Slavery is a better word.

African slaves were forced to give 100% of whatever they did to their masters. They were punished severely for breaking the master's rules. Back then they called it "slavery." These days you give 20% - 40%+ of your earnings to your master and you are still punished if you break the master's rules. They may not beat you, but they will imprison you and strip you of everything you have. Only now they don't call it slavery, even though that is exactly what it is.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634487)

african slaves didn't get schools and medicare and roads, and security, etc. to use in return.

i'm not trying to be dense but i really don't get the slave analogy.

now i do get the current u.s. government is acting in a perverted manor, as it has done before, favoring big business combined with a misguided idea of defense, consequently those roads, bridges, this&that, and security are suffering as a result. but there would be no road at all if there were no taxes.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19634215)

All of them do this.

It's easy to write off everything. Doesn't matter if you are a huge company or self employed. I write off a portion of my house because I work from home, although I'm not sure why I am allowed to do this? Why does anyone get to write off anything?

We need a flat tax.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 19634507)

You get to write off expenses so that companies that don't make money right away are allowed to continue. If you had to feed a company that was grossing 100k a year and groing but wasn't making money yet, you would increase the barrier to entry for normal people.
You pay tax on the difference and not the gross like in Russia.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 19634619)

Many years ago when I was right out of high school I worked for Radio Shack. The manager I had when I first started then had 3 or 4 different DBA's for different businesses. He had a degree in accounting and had things set up so basically one business owned his house, one owned his furniture, one owned the car and so on. He had all his assets split up among them and each business rented items to the other business and wrote everything off until he got it down to where he had zero taxable income every year.

Not long after I started working there he got fired so I don't know if he ever got caught, but at that time he told me he had been doing this for 10 years.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 19634665)

See, now that's a bit much. My wife and I have different businesses, but that's because they are completely different from each other.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634426)

it's a common metaphor for low-paying, manual, menial, unskilled labor that others look down on. dwb is in thailand and used it and i am in cali and knew of the phrase.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634487)

african slaves didn't get schools and medicare and roads, and security, etc. to use in return.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634487)

but there would be no road at all if there were no taxes.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634487)

i'm not trying to be dense but i really don't get the slave analogy.

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19634491)

you've got to wonder, no one wants to pay taxes...ok so no one pays taxes. how does anything get funded? how does society function?

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon (Post 19634480)

the average worker has no control over what he pays in taxes, its taken off their paychecks before they even get them. the system wouldn't work if everyone worked for themselves, nor would it work if everyone moved to third world countries where taxes don't apply.

Originally Posted by vvvvv (Post 19634049)

Manwin should take some pointers from them.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634723)

We actually have a lot of ditch diggers here. Poor guys make like $9 a day for back breaking work. :(



They got food and a roof over their head, which during those times was a lot. Some did get a minimal education. They had security from other slave owners and anyone else so long as they stayed on the plantation. And the best of them got to breed the women. :upsidedow



Toll roads, gas tax, and so on. Several US states already do it, such as Texas.

There are some countries with no income tax at all for individuals, such as Monaco.

Most people in SE Asia don't pay taxes. We have roads, government services, schools, fire departments, several branches of military, and everything else that people say no one would have if everyone stopped paying taxes. Don't be fooled, governments have plenty of money to do what they need IF they spend it on the right things.



slave (plural slaves)

Noun

*A person who is the property of another person and whose labor and also whose life often is subject to the owner's volition.
*A person who is legally obliged by prior contract (oral or written) to work for another, with contractually limited rights to bargain; an indentured servant.
*A person who is forced against his/her will to perform, for another person or other persons, personal services on a regular or continuing basis.

That pretty much sums up taxation. You didn't agree to any contract, you have no choice in the matter, it is forced upon you, you will be punished (or imprisoned) if you don't pay them, and you are an indentured servant to your government until the day you die where they will then charge a death tax.



See my post above. Many countries who collect very little or no personal income tax revenue have everything they need. The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634738)

DWB is 100% correct.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 19634738)

THAT is where all the money goes. To killing people.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19634752)

why not use the definition of tax instead of applying the definition of slavery to tax?

tax (tks)
n.
1. A contribution for the support of a government required of persons, groups, or businesses within the domain of that government.
2. A fee or dues levied on the members of an organization to meet its expenses.
3. A burdensome or excessive demand; a strain.

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634788)

Because "tax" in related to personal income tax is just a fancy word for "theft" and "slavery." You can change the name all you want but it still is what it is.

If having 100% of the product of your labor stolen is literally slavery, then at what percentage does it stop being slavery?

The bottom line is this, the only reason any of us pay taxes is because we would be arrested if we didn't. If that doesn't show the true reality of the situation, then nothing will.

http://i.imgur.com/qzMIM10.jpg

Originally Posted by Gozarian (Post 19634505)

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes. Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."
Judge Learned Hand, Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935)

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634788)

The bottom line is this, the only reason any of us pay taxes is because we would be arrested if we didn't. If that doesn't show the true reality of the situation, then nothing will.

Originally Posted by GrantMercury (Post 19634898)

How many people would pay taxes purely out of a sense of duty to their country? How far do you think that would take us?

Originally Posted by DWB (Post 19634723)

The money is there and there are plenty of ways to get it. It's the biggest lie and scam anyone has pulled since The Bible.