I control all the way to the floor, with the bar kind of hugging my shins, and maintain a flat back. I have to concentrate on this or I can feel a sore back the next day -- but no ta good kind of sore.

There's a few douche rockets at my gym who like to like to go heavier than they should and they drop the weights.

I like that term. Douche rocket. Most everyone i see so far at the gym over here is doing too much weight and just throwing it around. For every exercise.
I am purposely doing lower weights and perfect form for my own good. I am hoping they notice. I am naturally bigger then them. I am in Korea. There is one bigger guy then me at the gym, he also uses proper form. He is an anomaly though, as he is much taller and much bigger then me. Which is rare over here.

If you cant set the weight down, don't pick it up. That's what I always say.

Yep, i think it is just good manners also.
One douche rocket the other day, kept throwing down his barbells.
I don't say anything, just roll my eyes in my mind..lol

It's attention whoring.

I used to work out at Planet Fitness, where they have this lunk alert thing. There's a siren on the wall, and it goes off when a meathead drops weights or grunts like he's passing a watermelon out of his asshole.

Finally got back to swimming, what you guys been doing lately?

As far as keeping lean and losing weight, diet is a lot more effective than exercise, unless it's extreme.

Cardio isn't much an issue for me, instead of sitting on my ass and listening to podcasts or watching movies I do it on the elliptical.
I've got a strong heart, unfortunately my bones aren't strong and I could never run more than 20 miles a week without getting fractures in my femurs. :disgust

The cardio shows, my blood pressure are better than healthy teenagers and my heart rate is anywhere from 40-48 bpm.

In high school when I was a good middle distance runner and weighed 165 at 6'2" it got down to 30 bpm. I just couldn't put miles in like some people or I'm sure I would have run in the 4:10's... but that's past and who gives a shit...

2km swim, i am all muscle and bone under the fat and skin

Has anyone had the experience of staying the same or getting heavier on the scale -- yet looking better at the same time? Ever since I've been hitting the gym and using Androgel, I'm starting to look much better -- chest, shoulders and biceps are bigger, waist is slimmer -- but I actually weigh more than when I started using it.

I know muscle weighs more than fat while taking up less space, but could I have gained 8 pounds of muscle in 2 months? Another 6 months of this and I'll be ready for the 300 sequel.

Its not all muscle but im sure a sizable portion of it is. Also realize the more testosterone your body has/produces the more estrogen it will make to compensate. High/er estrogen = water weight/bloating. Hence why women blow up like deer ticks around their time of the month.

Do those estro blockers work? I have one but I only just started taking it.

Anyway, my doc said aromatization is mostly a problem for fatter guys.

Aromatase inhibitors do work. Only true way to tell if your estrogen is a elevated is with a blood test. Youll definitely retain more water/glycogen while on androgel and some muscle gain. Youll be sure to recomp a little in the first couple months of taking it.

i am in that boat right now.
since going back to the gym i am up 4kgs. coming in at 97 kgs right now.
I can physically see that im a bit bigger in the arms, chest, shoulders. My stomach looks better. People comment that im looking good etc. However it is a mind trip to be up that much in a relatively short time.

I think another couple months and i will start to drop the weight. I don't go super heavy in the gym. Every set is 8-10 usually 10. So i am hoping it is just muscle gains, and a bit of water retention

I skipped the gym time. But I will be there tomorrow ;)

https://cdn1.iconfinder.com/data/ico..._education.png

Well now that summer has pretty much closed, it is time to get back on that bulking diet. Sitting at 180 this morning...On the road to 190-195 hopefully by end of feb beginning of march. Looking to stay below 11-12% in the process.

In order to get in better shape and stay off chronic back pain, took my studio stool outta my studio and paint whilst standing and dancing at my easel. It also get my right brain more creative.

Anyone training for Iron Man?

Bumping this thread! Holidays are here ladies and gents, now is the time to display true discipline with your diets. How is everyone going with their training?

I've been doing intermittent fasting for month, pretty consistently. The fat has been falling off my midsection. I'll just say its not a starvation diet. You still get your calories for the day, it's just that you eat them in a smaller window of time. Then you work out at the end of your fast on a empty stomach. The theory is that energy is grabbed from fat cells, instead of glycogen from recent meals. I built up to it week to week, and now my schedule is 18 to 20 hours of fasting, then I eat for the remaining hours. I did my first 24 hour fast a couple days ago, and I swear to god -- I was not that hungry when I broke the fast. And I had an awesome workout to boot.

My way of doing it is to not really skip breakfast. I just postpone it until 12 or 1 in the afternoon. Then I eat 1 meal for most of my calories, and get the rest of the calories throughout the day until around 4 or 6. Then it's imperative that nothing but water is ingested from that point on. Another great thing about it is I'm having to worry less about meal preparation. After the 24 hour fast, I had one nutritious meal and I was done for the day.

It's been great and I can see myself adopting it as an eating lifestyle, because it's changed my attitude toward food and eating in general. I've abandoned the concept that if my stomach is grumbling, I must eat or I'm going to die. My colon has been operating much better, I'm thinking clearer, and I'm approaching Brad Pitt Fight Club shape. I'm not there, but I'm on my way if I keep this up for a few months.

One more bonus side effect, is that fasting supposedly raises human growth hormone levels naturally. I would say it's true, because I'm starting to look yoked and getting good pec separation and shoulder striations when flexing. No more man tits.

60 days ago or so, I convinced my girlfriend to go to a well known sports doctor that does meal plans for pro athletes and competitive bodybuilders because she was getting frustrated and it was never really useful to have info coming from me, particularly when i was subsisting on a diet of ice cream and cheese sticks. She did a full assessment with him and I used the opportunity to ask a ton of questions. I was so impressed with his knowledge and he was so helpful and easy to talk to, that I went back to him and as well, did a full assessment and had him put together my meal plans so that the GF and I would basically be doing the same things, rather than one of us always corrupting the other.

Her goal is to simply lose 15 pounds off her tiny frame. Not really a big deal. I was not real sure about mine. After quite a bit of contemplation on the matter, I decided that since I have to be in a city I don't want to be in for a couple years just to be with her, I am going to focus on getting as big as possible and try to cut down at the same time over that period... basically just working on body recomposition rather than cycling bulking/cutting. At least for the first 6 months or so.

Just over 60 days ago:

Starting weight: 250lbs
Starting lean muscle mass: 175lbs
body fat%: 31
BMR: ~2050 cals

Meal plans were for 2450 calories.
Macronutrient breakdown 40/40/20
Nothing unique or special really. Just very clean food.

After 5 weeks, i was down 5 pounds of fat and up 4 pounds of muscle.

At about 8 weeks, i am down a total of around 10 pounds of bodyfat and up about 8 pounds of lean muscle (too lazy to go get the printouts from the car)

My girlfriend, who spent most of the last 2 years eating 800-1000 calories a day, while working out and doing cardio (against my advice) saw that her BMR was actually 1700 cals. Her meal plans put her at around 1800 calories a day or so and she has been losing 1-2 pounds a week and putting on a little muscle at the same time.

Holy actual fuck! According to the most aggressive models for muscle gain (even in beginners, who gain it WAY faster), you're talking 2 lbs. per month -- and that's for a PERFECT routine, perfect sleep, perfect eating, perfect supplementation .. basically laboratory conditions. And even then, if you don't have the genetics, 1 lb. per month is much more realistic, if you are training your ass off. Here's some basic info, without getting too into the science and reasons behind it:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

But holy fuck, you CRUSHED that by a wide margin. You're some sort of genetic freak, and if you stick with it even a LITTLE, you're going to see tremendous results with those genes. Rock on, dude.

Well, since you brought all this up, there are some important things to be said in this regard.

1) Diet is everything. Without good diet, you aren't going anywhere.
2) Muscle memory plays a role. I used to be fairly big, then lost a ton of mass and got fat.
3) Good training is obviously important.
4) It's not "natural" - i just wasn't sure how to say it. But again, it needs to be said that no drug overcomes bad diet and poor discipline. Drugs only amplify the effects of doing things right. Drugs don't create great results from nothing.

I take testosterone (500mg cyp/wk) and anavar (100mg/day) permanently. I added winstrol (75mg eod) and masteron (200mg 2x/wk) in small quantities because my goal is re-composition, not radical mass gain or quick fat loss.

My GF of course uses nothing but my love and support. :) And she lost in 30 days something like 7 pounds and gained 3lbs of muscle mass which really surprised me.

here's an example meal plan. I have quite a few and picked the my favorite stuff to create my own, maintaining the same basic caloric/macro-nutrient breakdowns. But basically, i would eat this for the whole week.. not one day. Or longer.

My GF comes over and we prepare food for the next 3-4 days. Meaning, she prepares it and I watch. Luckily she's a great cook and can spice everything up without changing the counts. My fridge is almost nothing but containers of pre-prepared food.

http://i.imgur.com/98qz3mO.gif

I'd agree that its possible to put on more muscle per month than the accepted norm. I've done pretty well with that because since I started my program, I'm only a little less than what I started at (about 192), but I don't look like a pudgy mess now. I think the testosterone replacement therapy is also playing a part in my muscle gains.

Been trying to pay less attention to the scale, and more to what the mirror says.

Yeah, my body is radically different but my body weight is more or less the same. Thats why its more important to go by measurements, how your clothes fit and if possible, some reliable means of body fat measurement.

Increased testosterone will definitely play a role in both fat loss and muscle gain, even in supplementary doses.

Even with a little help in those areas, the amount of muscle you have put on is astounding. I'm telling you -- if you stay even slightly in this mode, you're going to be enormous (probably bigger than you were). That's awesome! I envy your genes. I had to eat like a sumo wrestler to go from my normal 180 to 230 for a fight, and it sucked ass ... hardly any muscle, 90% fat went on, despite high protein and carb intakes and a very good program.


Your ratios are great. Timing your carbs to the correct periods (simplified, post-workout) will help your muscles with protein uptake, but with your results, I hardly think I need to give YOU advice!

That Androgel is the magic juice. I've heard I should switch over to injections, but I don't want to grow a second dick.

I don't really know much about that. When the creams first came out quite a few years back, they were very impractical and barely effective.. but they also evolved very rapidly and I didn't pay much attention. I used to have a prescription. I know that now they are now quite a bit more effective at getting testosterone into the blood and also come with higher %'s of test. Also, you have the issue of your woman having direct and indirect contact with it with creams/gels, which might be a problem.

All that matters is your blood work - that will tell the story.

Train hard to be hard or just use Viagra


Im going to do a double today! BOOM!

Youll feel a helluvalot better on injects vs gel. Why would you grow a 2nd dick? Youre on a low dose of HRT, the only growth youll experience is muscle and maybe body hair growing faster.

This is the new plan I just switched over to about 4 weeks ago. Nice little lean bulker. Was tough getting down all that chicken/turkey at first but now I find myself looking for more food after my post workout meal. Amazing how the body adapts to quickly.

Meal 1:
2 scoops ISOFLEX protein (Mixed in water)or 12whites(16oz liquid)
1cup oatmeal
¼ cup berries (black/blue/rasp)
2 fish oil caps
(2-3hrs)
Meal 2:
8ozhaSteak
1 cup green veggies
Digestive Enzymes

(2-3hrs)

Meal 3:
8oz Chicken or tukey or tilapia
½ cup jasmine rice or 4oz yam

(2-3hrs)

Meal 4:
8ozhachicken, turkey, or tilapia
1 cup green veggies

(2-3hrs)
Meal 5: 1-1.5before workout
6oz Chicken or 6oztilapia
8oz sweet potato OR 1 cup jasmine Rice (10oz or 1.25c on legs and chest day)
500mcg chromium picolinate

TRAIN AS INTENSE AS POSSIBLE-- intraworkout (during)
1.5 scoops aminolinx by ProSupps (ADD ½ scoop Karbolyn on legs and chest days and arms)
+++Do 30 mins cardio After training 3x per week on stairmaster.


Meal 5:Immediately POST WORKOUT::
2 scoops ISOFLEX
1 scoop KARBOLYN

1 HOUR LATER

Meal 6:

12 eggwhites (16oz liquid) or 10 oz tilapia
5 stalks of asparagus
2 fish oil caps + 1 serving natural PB
If still awake::: another meal is okay must be 6oz tilapia OR can of tuna (plain)

SLEEP

Why do you have so many carbs throughout the day? Fuel your body for what youre doing. Youll be able to burn fat and still build or maintain muscle eating this way. Chances are youre a computer through more than 1/2 your day where you are eating carbs then just sitting. What happens when the body cant burn its fuel and its glyocogen stores are full? Stores it as fat!

Carbs upon waking for energy, carbs before workout, and after to replenish glyocgen.

Also in regard to your protein intake...drop the shakes, up the animal protein. I 12oz a day is far from optimal. Shakes are supposed to be supplements not your main source of protein.

my body in good shape... :winkwink:

Love to see this thread back in action.
Tomorrow i am switching over to lighter weights and more cardio. I am hovering at 97 kgs for awhile now. I would like to drop a lot of that say 7 kgs. Trouble is i dont focus on the diet as much as some of the people in the thread. I am a sucker for beer and whatever comes after several beers. :)

Why lighter weights?

I think im packing on muscle. i can visibly see my arms and shoulders..chest etc getting bigger. I am up a lot of weight. right now 97 kgs so i just want to tone it down...try and keep my reps to min of 12. Then save up energy for min 30 minutes cardio after.

I am not concerned with getting big or jacked. Just want a flat stomach and good health.

That added muscle is what is going to keep you in good health and that stomach flat. More muscle = increased metabolism and fat burning. Dont pay attention to the scale muscle is extremely more dense than fat. I suggest sticking with the 10-12 rep range, and adding in some cardio. Fact of the matter is a tiny diet tweak can change the entire way you look. Id be more than happy to take a look at your diet. I highly doubt your training is what the issue is

I know it is my diet. :(
Tonight I polished off a large bottle of sake, with a friend, and some sashimi.
That wasn't bad, but then i made it all the way home, and there is this fried chicken place at the bottom of the building. Sigh. I got some.

Self control is my biggest issue. I cut out all soda and replaced it with fried chicken. We get a new apartment here soon. I will be able to walk down one flight of stairs to get fried chicken, 24 hours. It is so good here.

Asia is killing me, i have to be the only one who comes to Asia and gains weight..lol

If you want anywhere near a flat stomach I suggest staying away from fried anything. :1orglaugh

For cheats...give yourself specific days to cheat. It gives you something to really look forward to and enjoy. Not to mention you get a whole new appreciation for sweets. Once you get a 6 pack you will do anything and everything to keep it!

As stated above, it's not my meal plan... it was all put together for me by a doctor who does this for pro athletes and pro bodybuilders and everything has to be looked at within the context of ones specific goals, workouts and "supplementation". Also, i am right on target and exactly where he said i'd be for fat loss and lean mass gain, so I can't see a reason to change anything at this point.

No doctor nutritionist or anyone in their right mind would give an individual a meal plan with more protein from powder and shakes than from whole food sources. Pro athletes dont use dr's for nutrition plans. You used a basic 40/40/20 macro profile and applied it to your daily diet. No method or madness or reasoning behind your meal timing, especially your last meal where you blast your body with about 40-60 grams of sugar right before going to sleep. Bananas have way more carbs/sugars than your chart says too.

More muscle mass doesn't automatically mean "more body fat burned". It means "more calories burned" which still requires a strict control over daily caloric intake and the types of foods being consumed.

:)

Look dude you are making waaay too many assumptions. 1) obviously you are wrong, being that i meet with him about 2 times a month and he (as well as his partner) is also a competitive body builder and this is in fact, his meal plan and i do understand its obviously a basic 40/40/20 breakdown as i've also already stated above and nothing unique. But it's not like everyone is just making wild guesses and hoping for the best. 2) a guy happening to be a doctor but also having a degree in molecular biology as well as a background in nutrition and happening to end up spending a great deal of his time with athletes, injury rehab and meal plans doesn't mean pro athletes are going to a general practitioner as you've somehow assumed. So lighten up. and 3)... sure, i understand all of what you are saying. the fact remains, I am right on target. end of story. That's what matters. I'm never hungry and I am still right on track with my goals.

Youre a male eating 12oz of meat a day and having 3-4 protein shakes in place of whole food sources. FIRE HIM YOU DONT NEED TO PAY HIM.

Or better yet PM me his number I'd love to have a convo with someone who suggests Non FDA approved powders for food replacement as a DOCTOR. Is he a doctor or a chiropractor?

Better question is...why are you seeing this person 2x a month...your body is not changing THAT fast unless youre enhanced.

If you cant tell im pretty passionate about this, and it really ticks me off when someone who claims to know what theyre doing just blasts out a nutriton plan with no reasoning. Why do you need 60 grams of sugar before you go to bed? Just because it fits the macros?

Dude, i just offered up a complete look at what I am doing for informational purposes only and to contribute. I am not giving advice or pretending to be an expert. I am not here to be put on trial. I gain nothing from it and personally don't care. I go to him 2 times a month because I go once with my girlfriend and once for myself and I use every opportunity possible to ask as much as I can... as I do with as many people that I feel have a sound knowledge in what they are doing vs listening to the same old hype, myth and bro-science that dominates the fitness industry. I also have to work with and around some injuries, so its useful and i learn a lot and always feel i can learn more.

And again, as far as the "enhanced"... fully addressed above as well. One of the many many points you missed as you started attacking.

Wow the fact that you are ON gear at such a high BF...under a DOCTORS supervision...MIND = Obliterated. and to be PERMANENTLY on 500MG test/100MG Var...what!?! I would LOVE to see your blood work. Your lipids and liver enzymes must be trashed. oh and then adding in winny and masteron...dude you are a high BF percentage...Var/Winny/and Masteron are Hardners you shouldnt be touching that unless youre sub 10% otherwise youre wasting money because they do NOTHING for fat loss.

I don't care how you slice it sound knowledge doesn't come from a container of protein. There are multitudes of alternative sources. Tuna, Salmon, Tilapia, Pastrurized Egg whites (mix with calorie free Walden Farms Chocolate Syrup, instant yohoo 50 grams protein, 0 carbs, 0 fats), turkey, ground turkey, chicken, ground chicken, beef.

A diet is about a balance, can we agree on that? If so, do you agree that a balanced diet should have more protein cals from powders or from a whole food source with micronutrients? Also...fat intake...yikes.

There is no hype or myth in regard to what I'm talking about...nutrition timing is just as important if nor more important as the types and number of cals you take in. We can eat the SAME thing just at different times and our bodies would change different.

Im not knocking your hustle I think your weight loss is great and yea of course its going to be fast off the bat. If youre doing this much wouldnt you rather be at 100% capacity rather than 70 or 80. Fire on all cylinders and do it the right way. Get a 2nd opinion because this plan is not optimal and your cycle is terrible for your goals.

Care to post your degree? Your trophies? Any references from pro bodybuilders, fitness models or pro athletes that you've helped succeed? Any education in nutrition? Biochem? Saying things like "var/winnie/masteron" are hardners is comical. They are all also cutting agents and I would think you should know that.

And again, I went from being barely serious for a long time to now being more committed and focused. I am hitting all my goals and everything is on track. End of story. There is nothing about "quick fat loss because I just started" in any of this. You have absolutely no clue where I started. What i was taking, how i was eating, how i was training or anything at all. You just made a bunch of wild assumptions and went off the deep end with them.

Regurgitating the same tired line "increase your muscle mass and you will burn more calories" to imply that fat loss will automatically occur with increased muscle mass is what I was talking about. You have to eat to gain muscle. You have to eat to support muscle. You still have to keep your diet in check every step of the way. If you stop training, you lose muscle. Having 5 or 10 more pounds of lean muscle mass is absolutely unrelated to ones fat loss goals and achieving them when diet is fully not in check and these kinds of statements are only true in their proper and full context.

anyway... what could have been a motivating thread is now pointless and typical gfy drivel.. Also my fault.

And btw... i have more lean muscle mass than you even weigh and you are far more dedicated than i am (or at least have been, over the last several years).