I guess I was not specific enough; not everyone in the roundup was for failure to maintain their property. My question is, how would that go down in Thailand for an arrest warrant? Any arrest warrant . . . or do they not have those either?


ummm
Sounds county wide to me, how about you?

Oh yea, I've been in the middle of some nonsense.

I'm sure there are others, but these are the ones that stand out to me at the moment:

- Caught in the middle of a gun fight in a small road in Bogota, Colombia. Had to hide behind a small concrete wall while bullets whizzed by. We stayed put until it was over. There was no where to go.

- Was pinned down by snipers twice during the last riots in Bangkok. Have this on video, pretty crazy. They were shooting all around from rooftops trying to hit anything that moved while the ARMY was shooting down the street at protesters. Again, no where to run to. Had to wait it out until the sun went down and creep out of it very slowly. Some people got shot.

- Was taken off a bus at gun point in the mountains of Venezuela by some para military group. I actually thought I was going to get killed here, but there were 15 or 20 of them with guns on us right out of the gate and there was no where to run. They lined all the men up from the bus, my brother and I were the only white guys, they went down the list checking IDs and finally let us go. But I thought for sure that was it, and there was nothing I could do. If they would have shot us, it would have been firing squad style with 15 or 20 guns already pointed at all of us.

- Arrested in Colombia by the military police. Had an early AM raid on us, thrown to the ground, machine guns in my face, boots on my chest, all that good stuff. No choice there either, they took us down within 2 seconds flat.

Those top the list I think. In all of them I really didn't have an option to do anything other than to comply with their orders or take cover. I don't freak out during stress and can handle stuff like that pretty well. I always wanted to try my hand at combat photography, that is what took me to the front line of the riots in Bangkok. I wanted to see how I would handle a real conflict and if I could function to take photos during it. I am OK during times like that, but I have two friends who literally freeze and go brain dead over lesser things, like our raid in Colombia. So I can understand some people having the deer in the headlights syndrome, my two friends do exactly that.

Where the hell does everyone get this idea that if the cops come knocking at your door you are required to cooperate and if you don't they have the authorization to just walk into your home? Asserting your constitutional rights is not probable cause for anything, nor is having the same first name of a suspect. Some of you act like she deserved this for not kissing their butts and treating them like the gods they think they are, unbelievable.

Yes, they have arrest warrants and use them often. But like I said, they come prepared with a print out from the government database of either their ID or passport. While I'm sure a mix up has happened, I've never heard of one.

The loss of face is everything here and even the police can't afford to lose face, so they must be right 100% of the time when they go to get someone. If they mess it up the first time, they won't get a 2nd chance or another warrant because everyone involved lost face due to the error. They put in the extra work to make sure they get the right person.

When they do issue them, they can arrest the person anywhere. Sometimes they catch them at the movies, sometimes at dinner, sometimes at home. First they send someone to follow them and find the best time to get them when they are the most vulnerable and have the least chance to to resist. It's pretty hard to go for a gun when you walk to the bathroom to pee while watching Iron Man in 3D.

There have been cases where the person they are after got away. Slipped through a back door, out a window, or even jumped out of the truck after they were arrested. So that happens, but they are usually quickly arrested again.

What brute force? They knocked on the door, explained they had a warrant, then waited while she loaded on up her video camera....

This isn't "brute force". It's how an arrest warrant is executed.

small place like that they knew where this person lived

No, you don't get it at all.

How many times a day do police show up with a warrant and are told "He is not here" or some other excuse? If police walked away every time they were told someone with a warrant "doesn't live there" they would never find anyone to arrest.

When police have a warrant and believe the person on the warrant lives there, they are going to search the premises. They have a warrant, issued by a court, giving them permission to search.

It doesn't work any other way.

This thread has caused me to revise my estimate of the average GFY IQ downward.

1) It feels to me like the cops are abusing their powers a little.
I think everyone knew what was going on was this little junkie piece of shit was trying to game them to protect whatever it was that she had to protect OR if she wasn't protecting anything in that instant then she obviously has a defensive uncooperative attitude formed with the police and that tends to raise suspicions because it implies history. That much was obvious by her behaviour.

Mind you, if she didn't live in a shithole and instead lived in a million dollar nice looking house with a little land around it that looked affluent none of this would have ever happened either.

2) I don't really give a shit too much if the police abuse their powers a little with poor people and low lifes. It's not just the entry, either. Fucking with the camera isn't really defensible. On what grounds??! This woman qualifies on both counts though.

3) The problem is, that with something like policing having the discretion to bend the rules taken to its logical conclusion means eventually the wrong person has the rules bent on them and this results in bad consequences, sometimes even death for innocents. When I say innocents I mean innocents, not "innocent in that moment" I mean, not low lifes, upstanding citizens caught in the wrong place at the wrong time or whatever.

4) Since I don't want to even have a chance of being caught up in the inexorable machinery cogs of law enforcement and ground up into hamburger and I want to be able to depend on and exercise MY rights, I have to defend hers.

At some point Rochard's "it's not me, it doesn't matter, I'm obviously not police fearing they won't screw up and mistake me for someone on the other side of the fence" argument ends up in the same place I am. He just has more unfounded faith in them recognizing his upstandingness every single time, and doesn't worry about possible governmental changes down the line once rights have eroded.

This is also a slippery slope that has consequences that are wide ranging ... see sperbonzo's mention of once you have a government that has gathered all the totalitarian powers it wants, a change in government by whatever method - including one that simply gives in to the siren song of contempt and abuse of power fostered by getting away with it for so long, can have effects not imagined by those that let them get away with those erosions in the first place.

You (and I) have rights because some very smart guys tried their best to prevent the evolution of governments into tyrannies. YOUR forefathers even fought for it.

Pissing all over that in the name of .. what.. being a good citizen? expediency? is fucking stupid and tragic.

It wasn't seven men from one department. It was six men from three different departments, plus someone from the housing department.

Is it overkill? Sure is. But... Three officers to the front door, two to the back door - in case the suspect bolts - And another officer on the side yard or in reserve. Makes perfect sense if you think about it.

What a shame our tax dollars are wasted on arrested stupid people who can't pay their fines on time.

rochard.

you've heard the metaphor work smarter not harder?


the cops can use their brains or they can use brute-force.

they were under a deadline to arrest 100 people in 12 hours.

they dedicated a huge amount of their entire resources to go arrest the wrong person without so much as trying to find a picture or a basic description.

you look silly defending that.

It actually stems from the all-too-common 'power trip syndrome' that afflicts many cops over time. It's not so much about getting off on being abusive, although that definitely can be the case with some. It's more about feeding their ego, and that can display itself via that cliché cop attitude.

As I said, some guys on the force are good caring guys who have an eye for when someone is a potential threat and when they're just a straight-up genuine one willing to either help them do their job or stay out of their way. Sadly, those guys are rare. The power trippers are a lot more common.

Thus as I said it's always best to just stow the ego and cooperate fully. Because the cop isn't the only one in a situation that doesn't know what he's up against. You, the person being confronted by them, also don't know just what kind of cop you're dealing with. Running, resisting or getting smartassy with them are about the dumbest things one can do, yet so many choose to go that route.

But when they came to my house without reason... I acted with common sense. There are four police officers with shotguns at my front door at 3am. I didn't want to get shot. So I turned on all of the lights, opened the door wide, and treated them with respect.

I don't see what the police did wrong here. They knocked on the door, they said they had a search warrant, they were let in and they searched the house. This is all perfectly legal, and happens thousands of times a day. They didn't bust down the door, they didn't pull her out of the house by her hair, nothing.

when the fuck did i say they should walk away rochard?

jfc. :1orglaugh

i am saying they should learn to do their jobs properly.

this is like a deleted scene from supertroopers for crying out loud.

rochard, you might want these guys patrolling your neighborhood but i'll take cops with better preparation over just bust the fuck in mother fucker.

cop on radio: hey uh sarge, cop #6 here trying to arrest the tax prop perp, uh, well, she claims she's not her sarge.

sarge: well, did you look at the profile of the tax prop perp to compare?

cop: uh, we're in.

They did not have a search warrant, they had an arrest warrant for a different person that lived somewhere else.

i've tried to make note of it re: home protection. hopefully just realizing there is a massive tendency to freeze in that situation will help keep it from happening.

i do think people can and do lockstep to what they are told to do.

there was a psych. experiment mentioned elsewhere here, not sure if it's the same but there's a fantastic one where they instruct volunteers to shock the shit out of people on the other side of a wall, ne actual electrocution is done. they are told the victims deserve it and to up the voltage even though they hear peeps screaming in pain.

That's the thing, one doesn't have to know how to behave. The cop will tell you what they want you to do, and often they will even tell you how to do it if the situation warrants. If he says to leave a door open or keep your hands in plain view at all times, or to turn away and raise your arms so he can search you, etc, to me it doesn't take a lot of know-how to simply do what they're telling you yet so many plead the "I didn't know what I was supposed to do" card.

Pardon the pun but it's a cop-out. I actually DO blame a lot of those people for "not handling the situation better" as you said. Not all, but many. Because they are either hard of hearing or they are just plain stupid.

Making a cop tell you twice is common, yes, but pushing one's luck. Making him tell you three or more times is just asking for trouble. And a lot of people out there seem to fail miserably to realise is that not complying with an officer's instructions is a form of resistance. Meaning one doesn't have to be physically resisting their grasp while they're trying to cuff you, it can be as passive as you simply not getting on your knees when the tell you to or refusing to put your hands on the wheel or the wall or whatever.

Is what they do in so many cases such as this right? No. Absolutely not. Is it likely to change? I seriously doubt it. It would be great if they could all be good cops. There'd be far less vids on youtube for one thing.

That's what I linked to on page 2 :)

i've had my share of confrontations with police. in various states of mind. i can assure you there are times when the cops told me what to do and i did not comprehended properly. guess what, i ended up in jail for the night.

placing blame doesn't help. as i said consequences are given via the sytem regardless.

I saw that. If they could see the person they were shocking they would not hurt them so bad, but if they could not see them, they would give them life threatening voltage. :helpme

i'd dig up the youtube on that but i find it hard to watch anymore.

there was another one done at stanford around that same time. they split the volunteers into 2 groups- jailers and prisoners. it did not take long for the experiment to get completely out of hand with the jailers taking advantage of the prisoners.

They had a warrant. With an arrest warrant in hand they can search any location they believe the suspect to be. In this case the house was owned by the suspect, and the suspect was receiving mail at the house - police had reason to believe the suspect lived at the house.

But they didn't do anything wrong. They knocked on the door, told her they had a warrant, and got nothing but shit from her.

i've never disagreed with that. i'll agree with you right now- they did nothing wrong.

and they got nothing but shit from her.

but again, if i was sarge of this posse, i'd have a sitdown with them to go over some other equally good ways of handling that situation other than escalation.

what is wrong is the lack of protocol here and just resorting to busting in in order to meet a quota.

And this explains your position here in this thread - You've had issues with the police before.

You mentioned you were in "various states of mind" which indicates drinking at the least and drugged up at the worst. If you are so are fucked up you "cannot comprehend properly" then chances you acting like a dick, refused direct orders, and in return the police handled you.

And now until you grow up you will fear the police and not trust them.

jesus christ rochard.

this place cracks me up. a porners board with prudes that think somehow spinning around my comments like that makes their argument better.

you and richard. y'all have fun. i wouldn't change 1 thing i've done in my life.

FYI I treat police much the same as you do.

You are using "arrest warrant" and "search warrant" interchangeably and I don't believe that's correct.

If I go along with "they had to enter to ensure their safety" (on a cut grass charge, but given she's a lowlife and the neighbourhood is lowlifeville), they still shouldn't have the right to search , which you can see that they obviously did so (to some degree).

Also, if they were so concerned with their safety that they had to enter, then why did they allow her to go from the window to the door. How was it more unsafe the second time around going from the door back inside and to the door? The answer is it wasn't. They were tired of her bullshit and threw their weight around a little, but didn't want to break down the door to begin with because they knew they didn't have a good argument and then they might actually face consequences.

It's not clear cut, but I don't expect cops to enter or search my house without rock solid reasons. Being a dick isn't a good reason. The reason it isn't a good reason is that "being a dick" can end up being a political tool, and it is also subject to much interpretation that does not lend itself to the rule of law.

The real problem is that most people don't a) care if lowlives get their rights trampled on and b) figure it's justified for being a dick because being a dick probably goes along with being a lowlife.

But the whole concept of not maintaining rights for everyone is already a casualty when we start to debate the finer points, and that means that everyone's rights are compromised not just whoever we decide doesn't deserve them.

I take it you read something that you have failed to show any of us in this thread.

if they were so concerned with their own safety they would have grabbed some extra-large fatass bulletproof vests prior to going in.

instead, they all belly'ed up just fine. they weren't concerned with that.

i haven't failed anything. you corrected yourself and said the operation was for 12 hours.

if it's a 12 hour operation to arrest 100 people in 12 hours, then the operation has an end time/deadline.

why else would it be a 12 hour operation? instead, devote a large part of the police force to this full-time. makes sense.

i'm still loling my fucking ass off over these 2 consecutive posts.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The advice I'm giving here isn't infallible by any means. It's simply what my inner gambler is telling me as the course of action that has the highest probability of delivering the least painful result.

And before anyone out there accuses me of defending the cops, save it. I'm not defending their actions, I am merely stating the obvious for those that need the obvious stated for them. Everyone's heard of the Scorpion and the Frog story. In this case the cops are the scorpion. They're not about to change, thus the only thing the average citizen has within his or her control in an encounter with law enforcement is their own actions.

Do I comply or do I run my mouth at them? Do I let them have a quick look around or do I tell them to get stuffed? Do I obey the command they are giving me or do I stand there dumbly until they tell me a second and third time, pissing them off by the second? Do I cooperate or do I run my cock hole about my "rights"?

What happens next is almost always going to be the result stemming from one's own actions.

Compliance. The gambler in me say's it's the best bet.

Call it CD's "Comply now and let your lawyer ask the questions later" method if you must.

i agree. i learned a long time ago to comply. that said, my comment about various states of mind only bolsters that.

in fact, when i wrote it i was recalling a long-distance motorcycle trip i took many years ago. i had <50 miles to go, it was late at night and bad weather and i was very tired and really wanting to finally get home.
i was pulled over for weaving around at 3am, understandable. but i was exhausted from hammering out some miles and didn't handle myself properly that time. i didn't end up in jail but i got dealt with by that officer. that's how it goes, state of mind regardless.

round of applause :thumbsup

being a dick, or as also stated in this thread 'being stupid', are just not good enough reasons for the police to also act like bullying asshole dicks. Reasonable force etc sure - but this behaviour wasn't reasonable, and I feel sorry for anyone spoonfed a load of shit throughout their life that they think it is, in any way, shape, or form.

Also seems some need to learn the difference between 'explaining they had a warrant' and shouting down & talking shit to a lone female who let's not forget was a 100% innocent party in all of this.

I corrected myself? You mean I corrected you?

And I never used the word deadline, only you did. And you seem to miss the point that this was not just one city, with one city's cops.

ok.

now that all that is cleared up.

again, my view is there was smarter ways to handle this.

it doesn't matter if it was 100 warrants in 10 hours with 1 police agency or 10 warrants in 100 hours with 11 agencies.


that it. if i were running the show there, i would be looking for ways to do better. there are many ways this could have been done better, as i've pointed out, better preparation is front & center of that.

state of mind:
noun attitude, perspective, outlook, approach, mood, disposition, frame of mind, mindset, way of looking at things



hope this helps rochard.

lol, the driver is clearly a gherkin short of a big mac, but fuck, how that policeman kept his cool is beyond me :1orglaugh Now that's a guy who deserved to be manhandled, right from when he ripped that ticket (I presume that's what it was) from the cop at the very start.. that's just fucking asking for trouble, and he should have got some.

yup. i wasn't sure why the uploader titled it bad cop but i too was impressed with the cop's handling of the situation, which is why i went ahead and used it here. it's a great example of not needing to escalate a situation to achieve the proper outcome.

the guy was very angry, consequently he handled it wrong. he was lucky because that cop handled it right and proper consequences were doled out.



i was about to post some more on the actual perp in turtle town. ::::