^ So not only clueless, but delusional too. You can't clear jack shit up here because to do so you'd have to clear your own addled mind first.

As for you bawling like a pussy about 'making a drama about you', you replied to me, you stupid fuck.

If you don't want me to refer to the stupid, inane, brainless shit you post, then do not direct your stupid, inane, brainless shit in my direction.

the exchange value is irrelevant to solidness of technical aspect of the network and its protocol. Bitcoin network processes transactions the same way whether bitcoin evaluates at $1 or $1,000.

the seemingly stable dollar used to be able to buy a loaf of bread for a few cents if not for a penny back in the day, you and I don't remember that and it is kind of irrelevant to us what the prices and purchasing power were before our time. although the dollar is sort of the same, the loaf of bread is sort of the same, only 100 years later the same loaf of bread costs what, 100-500 times more. and your grand grand kids wont be able to buy a loaf of bread for the same price you pay today.

*IF* once bitcoin gets its momentum and stabilizes with significant volumes and value and more commercial use instead of speculative trading, then we'll see how dollar fluctuates and its dynamics of weakening value when paired against with bitcoin. for now it seemingly stable being world's reserve currency, everything is pegged to it. we pray china won't dump their usd and mainly other US securities. else the bread could end up costing hundreds of solid dollar bills not to mentioned global crisis, depression, civil unrest.

sure but i am talking about the here and now. of course over time things will happen to make a dollar worth less or worth more but with bitcoin, its value can change from day to day so much its crazy. if bitcoin does ever "completely" stabilize then all the people holding bitcoins for investment/speculation reasons will most likely get out causing a crash in the price of bitcoin.

i stopped posting in bitcoin threads because what will happen is anyone's best guess but i think its safer to assume bad things will happen with bitcoin rather than good simply because its so new, not well understood and has a huge uphill battle to become commonplace. we both have our views and biases but i thikn people like myself are looking at it more objectively than people like yourself who i assume have a vested interest in it.

The value of *any* currency changes from day to day too so that isn't really a good comparison imho.

I'm sure when credit cards were originally introduced people said the same thing... Have all your money on a piece of plastic, I'm sure something bad is going to happen with that...

Do I have a vested interest in Bitcoin? Yes. I want to see the value go through the roof, but that is based on what I currently have in my wallet, in bitcoin stocks and other intangible assets, my initial investment was made back in 2 weeks of depositing when BTC started to fluctuate wildly, as well as regular monthly withdrawals of pure profit since right now I'm riding on 'free' money (once withdrawn) so if BTC drops or raises I don't really care, I got out much more than I put in anything above and beyond that is gravy.

the value of currency changes against other currencies but not so much within itself. i can go into the store and buy a loaf of bread today for 1.99, i can do the same 2 months from now. if i buy with bitcoin, i might of paid 2.99 for something worth 1.99 or .99 for something worth 1.99...all in the same day. sure the loaf of bread might go up .32 cents within the year but its not comparable. as for the credit card comparison...well i guess you missed the key word...credit. its not someone's actually money. i'd like to see bitcoin not be used for investment buy/sell purposes but actually commerce. that's what it was meant for, that's what it should be used for. if you kicked out everyone who bought for investment reasons, it would be worthless because next to no one is using it for its actual purpose.

why so aggro? is your need to cling to your lack of understanding about bitcoins so important to you that you flip out like this in defense?

moreover, you should also realize this is really not the place to get your bitcoin info. i mean you could do a search here, you would find a ton, you obviously didn't even do that, instead choosing to go off on me for not going out of my way to correct you.

If you need somewhere to spend your bitcoins ... so you do not have to convert them into fiat, and thus you do not owe any taxes on them ....

A1 Web Solutions now accepts bitcoin at going rates (-no premiums for cashing them out) for all of our hosting plans.

Bitcoin checkout has been integrated already for our VPS plans, but contact us and we will accept bitcoins for any shared or dedicated plans as well. :thumbsup

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


well the US gov seized 1mdc that was EXACTLY like bitcoins a few years back but don't let that stand in the way of your PDF...egold went down 2 years after...

you digital currency noobs are always good for a laugh :1orglaugh

they dont have to "prove" shit...they just seize...its what the US gov does...

"and thus you do not owe any taxes on them" ? The only way no taxes are owed is if no profit was made. Nice that your company is promoting tax evasion.


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TAX EVASION MY ASS!!

Bitcoins have no value (to the IRS) UNTIL THEY ARE CONVERTED INTO FIAT (USD) CURRENCY.

When our company converts them to cash value, yes taxes will be paid on them! So please tell me again how we are promoting tax evasion????

I have a university degree in accounting and business maths, and I am a Certified Management Accountant.

Are you going to tell me that depositing personal checks into your credit card account -- to be applied towards paying your credit card is tax evasion too? Hahahaha

Lets call paying rent or buying new office equipment tax evasion while we're at it ...

TROLLING FAIL!!! :thumbsup

for now that might be true but who knows for how long. fact is people should be paying for any gains made on the coins when you exchange them for goods or services.

Incorrect; and I'm not trolling.

At what price did you acquire the bitcoin? What is the current value of the service or product you are trading it for?

The value of the product/service minus your bitcoin acquisition price is the taxable amount of your transaction. (a negative is a loss carry forward on your taxes)

The decision to pay taxes or not is yours to make and has nothing to do with "internet currency". It has to do with profit earned. I paid my pool guy $120. per month weather he paid taxes or not was his choice as well.

Telling someone they owe no taxes is bad advise and evasion on their part.


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If I have a bitcoin I mined at $7 and give it to your company for $100 worth of product I owe taxes on the $93 gain.

What you owe on the bitcoin depends on your companies profit/loss on that coin when you use it. Telling someone it's a tax-free exchange is wrong.


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Please do not try defame me or my company, because you do not understand the concepts of deferring income tax, and personal/business tax shelters.

Savvy business owners fully understand the concept behind deferring income tax. What the IRS (or CRA, or similar agency) does not make from YOU as income tax, they will make from the merchant - as sales taxes and/or income taxes. This is NOT tax evasion in any way, shape, or form.

What I am saying is that the tax burden is on the person who converts the coin for cash value. Taxes will be paid on the transaction, but if you are not the one claiming a fiat financial gain, then no, you are not required to pay taxes on it.

I have given you my credentials ... please tell me yours.

Tax deferring is not tax evasion .... businesses have practiced tax deferring as a way to reduce their tax obligations for a long long time, and it is not illegal.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh


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Bravo Nicely Said!

"Are you going to tell me that depositing personal checks into your credit card account -- to be applied towards paying your credit card is tax evasion too?"

Nicely said? Your personal check didn't increase in value did it? The increase in value of an asset is taxable at each transaction. In the US you can't realize a gain without accruing that gain and paying tax on it at year end.


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Right from the IRS ……………...

"Almost everything you own and use for personal or investment purposes is a capital asset. Examples include a home, personal use items like household furnishings, and stocks or bonds held as investments. When a capital asset is sold, the difference between the basis in the asset and the amount it is sold for is a capital gain or a capital loss"


Your customer either made or lost money on their bitcoins and buying something from your company in no way negates any tax owed.

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You can't correct me because nothing I said is incorrect; repeating "you don't understand" won't change that fact.

Hey big L, how does the irs view an exchange for services rendered? is that = to being sold?

ok, now what?

i rly wasn't in the mood to argue with you but it doesn't make any sense for you to expect me to defend bitcoin to you either. that's whj i mentioned i've posted so much about it.

So I cant go to Amazon and buy a flatscreen TV for $800 with a credit (Can also use a debit card, that isn't 'credit' but its still just a piece of plastic) card and then buy the exact same TV for $800 using 7.6 BitCoins? I spent the same amount on both TVs I just used BTC funds for one instead of actual money out of my bank or from my credit line.

Dollars, Euros, Rupee, any type of currency can be used as investment, buying, selling and commerce, just like BitCoin, so I am not really sure what you mean by that.

It is a relatively new currency, so it stands to reason not many places will accept it yet but as it continues to grow (in terms of popularity) the amount of places it can be spent will increase also.

As for your comment about it being used for investment and not commerce, that just doesn't ring true, any time someone purchases BTC, trades BTC, buys a physical or virtual good with them, they are using it for purposes of 'commerce'.

That would fall under bartering laws which I don't follow.

I'm NOT trying to be a dick. I'm not anti bitcoin. There are tax consequences that people should be aware of is MY ONLY POINT! Paying them or not isn't my business. Just don't make uninformed decisions that can bite you in the ass.


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Agreed.

Unfortunately like most things in 'adult' the majority of GFY people see it as a tax less system of buying and selling goods and services... Just like Epass, Paxum, Paypal, et al... Even though it isn't :1orglaugh

i didn't get that impression, that you were being a dick....... but i am also familiar with your postings/comments in btc threads and understand where you are coming from. :)

You're missing the point. Did you pay tax on the $800? Should have at some point so you are using after tax money.

On the bitcoin was a tax paid on the gain in value before it was used? Probably not and that is what I'm talking about.

Trading a bitcoin you have profit in is a taxable transaction on that profit.

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lol, very true. There just shouldn't be a company here telling people to use bitcoins and not pay taxes on gains.


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no you can't because amazon doesn't accept bitcoins but what does that have to do with anything? my point was credit isn't an actual persons money. its a debt backed by a billion dollar company. i can't wait for the day when i can buy a bag of chips for .00004529823232232 bitcoins. that's convenience.
obviously but its not its main purpose. with bitcoin most people own them because they think they are going to make money off them. i am not working for dollars in hopes my dollars will be worth more one day. see the difference?
if the government ever releases its own virtual currency (and they would be smart to do so) then i think bitcoin will remain in the dark corners of the web and not become mainstream. canada is already working on a virtual currency.
mhmmm... you knew what i meant.

My point is simply this: if you're going to tell someone they are wrong, you have to do better than simply, "you are wrong". And when asked 'why?', you have to do better than, "look it up". And I don't want to argue about it either.

What are the advantages of bitcoins over currency and payment systems that already exist (dollars, credit cards and Paypal)? For Bitcoin to get any traction there needs to be a good reason for people (normal, average people, who don't give a rat's ass about its 'protocols' or what a technical marvel it is) to use it. If it's taxable and it's not anonymous, and it has a mountain to climb in being accepted anywhere, what is the (non ideological) reason to use it?

Not just for you, holograph is welcome to answer too, if he likes.

I'm not even against Bitcoin, I just don't think it will go anywhere, and think has no real, significant use other than as a commodity on the exchanges.

The main thing you negate to mention, is that household furnishings, and stocks and bonds are purchased with fiat currency. Bitcoin is an algorithm. Bitcoin is not legally a currency - by definition - until it is traded for a fiat currency.

OK ... so hypothetically, your neighbor has a lawn mower that is broken. You know how to fix it, and you do so. Your neighbor in appreciation for your fixing his mower, agrees to mow your lawn 3 times .... are you honestly telling me that you pay taxes on that exchange of services? C'mon man! :Oh crap

People talk a big game from the protection of their keyboards, but thus far all you have done is tried to defame my company.

Unless you can back up your claims, that you have proof of any tax evading activities, I suggest it is not in anybody's interests to be making unfounded accusations against fellow board members.

Cheers!

the value of bitcoin is it proves the concept works. people will embrace digital currency. purely digital transactions can be made without middlemen or paper changing hands. people agree that it has value as a currency and agree to establish that value often.

bitcoin has also revealed some issues in cryptocurrency concept, namely, that mining btc isn't going to work. it also has been shown to not be truly anon as the block chain can be dug into to retrieve transaction records.

bitcoin is not going to be the crypto currency of choice, it will fail, die, end, whatever.

but the proof will remain.

at least that's my take on it.

THis is the problem .... I am not promoting it as a TAXLESS system of exchange .... as I will (or at least my company will) be paying taxes on the value of the exchange to fiat currency.

My offer is not really any different than a BIG BOX store that has a WE'LL PAY THE TAXES promotion ...

If you spend your bitcoin for my services, YOU will not be paying taxes on the same, because my company will be the one converting its value to cash, and will be responsible for the taxes.

I'm still at a total loss where there is any wrong-doings on anybody's part?? :Oh crap

uh, how do you think most people get bitcoins in the first place? they use fiat currency to purchase them.
that's quite the extreme example but think about this. herman bought 1400 bitcoins for 3 bucks each way back. now they're worth $130 or whatever each. herman buys goods and services with his now valuable bitcoins. should herman not have to pay any kind of taxes on gain in value he got from the bitcoins?
calm down, no one is trying to 'defame' your company. and in case you haven't noticed 80% of the posts on this board are people making unfounded accusations against fellow board members.

also, just as important, the exchanges were never part of the development of bitcoin.

they emerged later, to fill a need to cash out, etc. and they are truly the weak link. mtgox, for instance, fell into the #1 spot by pure luck, they already had the functionality as they were the exchanger for the online game

MagicTheGatheringOnlineeXchange = MTGOX

and that is exactly where the big problems lie.

"If you need somewhere to spend your bitcoins ... so you do not have to convert them into fiat, and thus you do not owe any taxes on them …."

The above is what you posted. You state that if a customer trades bitcoins for your product the customer owes no tax on his bitcoins. That is incorrect.

The bitcoin is an asset that for most increased dramatically in value. Any of the profit on the bitcoin is subject to taxation. If I have a bitcoin I mined at $7 and give it to your company for $100 worth of product I owe taxes on the $93 gain.

How does purchasing from your company allow the customer not to pay taxes on his $93 gain? "Mr IRS auditor I bought something for $7 and traded it for $100 but don't owe taxes" That is what you said.


As far as your company paying taxes on the bitcoin how can you pay for someone else's gain? Your value is now set at whatever the price was for the product you traded it for.


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I wont end up paying tax on it until the end of the year... It still goes into accounting though.

Correct. End of year or quarterly depending on your situation. But unfortunately there is a tax due on anything that turns a profit.

Telling someone to buy hosting with bitcoins and to forget about taxes on any gains is poor advise.

Oh, okay. Thanks. Now I understand what you meant by proof of concept. I thought you were specifically relating it to Bitcoin (as other people seem to do), rather than the concept being used for other currencies.

I also believe the concept, or at least similar concept, will be used somehow in the future, but I probably thought that anyway, long before Bitcoin. I mean cyber currencies are not a new idea, it's just the implementation that's different in this case.

I don't believe it will spring out of 'the underground' though, and it will be the usual suspects who create and control it.

Bookmarking and will revisit in 2 years.