Still trying to pass a national carbon tax scheme?

I always wonder about the stats on pollution, carbon, etc.

Do they take into account what the U.S. does and has done militarily?

Do Americans driving our cars REALLY pollute more than the military dropping bombs, riding around in 12 gallons per mile tanks, flying jet planes...and oh yeah , doing things like dropping Napalm all over Vietnam and Cambodia during the 1960's and early 70's that completely deforested the entire region and killed millions of people AND animals, insects, plant life, etc., etc.

Yeah...the govt. tells the citizens to ride a fucking bicycle and turn the Air Conditioning off at home and sweat like pigs. Meanwhile the U.S. military is spewing carbon all over the world and the politicians AND the "climate change" scientists ride around in big SUV's and limousines and private airplanes to their ice cold office buildings.

I'll believe it's man-made when Pres. Obama orders mandatory solar panels for every home and business in the U.S.
Could have already done that a couple of times over with all that money that got funneled to Congress's cronies in the "bailout".

Hell, I live in Vegas. The entire Mojave Desert is sitting out here in Nevada and California.

Why doesn't the govt put solar panels across the whole damn thing?

And wind power? The wind blows so hard here every day. Why aren't their hundreds of miles of wind turbines and solar panels here?

ANSWER: Because for whatever reasons...the govt. doesn't take this shit seriously. The only people who seem to care are extreme environmentalists, oil companies, green energy companies, and faux liberals on GFY.

How am I supposed to think of this as a real threat when the govt. is treating it like a cash cow and not anything real?

the pollution from ww2 alone is staggering. to be fair though, all the big militaries take a massive shit on the planet and suck up all the petrol in the process. the oil spent fighting oil wars. hahahahahahahah fuck.

the climate is always changing. there is no proof that humans changed the pattern. it may take hundreds of years of data to figure it out maybe more. :2 cents:

Yes but never has the change been so drastic and besides disasters of the past were natural. This disaster is human-caused, and can be prevented.

Geeeuz fucking christ.

If you're just joking, then ha ha. There are alot of people who think this way though and those morons with their heads in the sand are wrecking the planet.

http://www.graceprotzman.com/imgs/blog_images/oil3.jpg

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/clare...11/300x200.jpghttp://i.huffpost.com/gen/914246/thu...large570.jpg?6

Hope you're proud.

Are you serious? Are you fucking serious?

The trouble is that the climate change evangelists push it like it's a religion, and I think that puts people off from investigating the science. For example, David Attenborough believes that climate change is real, but the organization he makes programs for (BBC) had made its mind up a long time previously, and it wasn't on the basis of scientific evidence.

I don't know what it's like in the American media, but the BBC is constantly harping on about climate change, and pushing climate change stories artificially high in the news. It almost seems like a cult at times, an oath that they all swear allegiance to.

13k, Bullshit, proof or die.

Yeah, belief is the death of intelligence, the 10 year one shows a decline and every summer wall the liberal worry worts come on here and cry about the temps.

And then when it's freezing in the winter time...they say the opposite: "Oh local conditions don't mean anything when you're talking about global climate change"

BUT when a hurricane or tornadoes or the recent heat wave we had here in Vegas (which was caused by a high pressure zone that didn't move for a week) happen, THEN local conditions are everything and "proof" that we need to pay a carbon tax to "save" the planet?

Again...WHY doesn't the govt. fill the Mojave desert here in Nevada and California with solar panels and wind turbines?
Because THEY don't believe it. If they really did, they would take action.

Think about it. When a dozen crazies with box cutters hijacked some airplanes 12 years ago...the govt. swung into action! They created the "Patriot Act" to give themselves more power and created "Homeland Security" and the TSA and have spent billions and billions of dollars.

Yet...when we are supposedly faced with global extinction? They do...nothing.

Money scam is what this screams to my cynical mind.

When the U.S. entered WW2 just think about how quickly and massively the U.S. govt. mobilized the country for war.

Now when they claim we are ALL going to die? It's business as usual. President isn't riding a bicycle. He's polluting BIG time with his convoy of SUV's, his private jet, his private helicopter.

Hell, he just left a carbon footprint bigger than all of us on GFY put together so he could take his family on vacation (at tax payer expense) to Africa.

That is NOT taking this "threat" very seriously now is it?

If the Pres. really believed it...he would DO something.
If Congress really believed...they would DO something.

Hell, Harry Reid is my Senator from Nevada. Mr. Democrat/Liberal himself. And that would be money coming into NV for his cronies...and he STILL does: nothing.

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Free solar power with some to spare for the neighbors is coming but many will try to slow the progress because they can't make as much money off it.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Koch_Industries

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...93368489_n.jpg

This is what I don't get about conspiritards and quacktivists in general.

Half say, climate change is faked to make you pay taxes, the other half say it is real and there is a conspiracy to cover it up.

A BAAAAAD person believes it! Therefore everyone who believes it regardless of how they came to that conclusion is BAAAAAD too!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy

You should look into this just a bit on your own. Seriously, it makes you sound dumb.

I've looked into it plenty and I've seen all I need to see with Obama throwing billions at one green company after another and each and every one are bankrupt within years.

My mom has had solar panels for water on her home since the 80's and she never recouped her initial $10,000 investment. In fact it cost about $1000 to have them removed a few years back to put a new roof on and I'd be willing to bet that $1000 was more than she ever saved.

Grant it things have come a long way since then but the cost is still high and maintenance costs are high as well. I'm all for free and green energy solutions but I don't for one second believe the government taxing and spending our way into a greener future is the way to go.

Everyone debates emissions, but nobody talks about what is likely the primary factor in global warming; destruction of natural areas for development. When you replace heat absorbing wooded areas or prairie lands with a four lane highway, parking lots and heat reflecting buildings, things are going to get hotter.

But pointing the finger at this stuff serves no purpose for either side because there is no call to action. You can't raise money to combat parking lots.

That was then. They are a lot better at absorbing energy. Now is the time to buy them. I would say 2-3 years from now would be a good time to buy in.

this is a tangent, but well illustrates the discrepancy between "scientists" environmental predictions & what actually happened...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwaiti_oil_fires

Damn, I was just googling "global warming stopping" and I'm getting all kinds of articles that are saying that nothing has changed in the last ten years and that scientists didn't take some factors into account on their theoretical "models" that they based their predictions on.

Unfortunately I have no way to know if all these sites are funded by oil companies or right wing religious crazies.

Can some of you GFY detectives google that and see if there's anything to it?

I recently saw an episode of Real Time With Bill Maher where he brought out a scientist in the opening segment of the show who said something very similar. That nature and the ocean and grasslands were changing to keep up with CO2 and that scientists who had made predictions based on their models had not seen that coming. And now the models are no longer valid and that nature itself has changed it (explaining why it's been at a standstill for a decade now).

Anyway, THAT is the most recent science on it that I have heard. And the guy on Real Time wasn't a conservative, oil company guy. He was a guy that Maher really liked and it kind of caught Bill by surprise when he said that.

I tried to find it on YouTube, but it's not there. Just tons of videos posted by liberals who are fan boys and have Bill "schooling" his conservative guests on how wrong they are. lol

Anyway, I found it interesting. And after googling a bit I found lots more info about that.

Is this possible?

The ocean and grasslands have started absorbing more CO2 than before and now the models that scientists put together ten years ago are no longer valid?

Just food for thought.

Interesting, haven't look into it. But, here's just a shot in the dark thought of my own on that subject/idea.

We all know trees feed off Co2, perhaps less trees = more food/fuel for the trees that do exist to consume, and perhaps produce fewer, stronger trees?

Like I said, just a shot in the dark (perhaps while blindfolded, it's still early here!)

Actually that's not true and not how it works anyway.

There is a ton of money to be made in Solar Power, but incentives for development were late in coming by the US Government thanks to oil lobbyists. For this reason, China got the upper hand and are now producing tons of Solar panels, cheap. The US could have been the leader here but again you were screwed over.

Regardless of how a home would get its own energy, the power wouldn't be given away to the neighbour next door. Instead, it would be sold back to the power grid, meaning the home owner would get credit for the power it gives back.

Things like wind and solar don't provide constant energy so its impractical not to be connected to the normal power grid. Storing the energy in batteries can work but can be expensive too. The cheapest and best way is to sell it back to the power company which is already happening in alot of places around the world.

Climate change / Global Warming is real and the evidence is everywhere.

Name 2.

I'm sure this is true but then again :
- Using solar panels to generate electricity to heat a water tank is very inefficient.
- Solar panels were alot more expensive in the 80's than they are today
- Solar panels are still very expensive today.

It's not that Solar is the absolute answer. How you should think about this is that Solar Panels are just one piece of the alternative energy puzzle, and money needs to go into exploring and developing alternative energy solutions.

Ok, but wouldn't you agree then that tax money that is currently going to oil, who already earn billions a year in profit, should be diverted to green energy?

If we did this the cost of green would go down and the planet might begin a trend towards getting some of its health back.

I was pointing out a flaw in the general mindset of conspiracy theorists. Half say it's faked to promote carbon tax, half say it is real, and being covered up.

I haven't looked into the climate change thing in a long time.

My view is this, being greener and cleaner is simply better because of air quality. Recycling or biodegradable products are good, because who wants to see trash anywhere? Stop cutting down too many trees, concrete never has, and never will look appealing. Etc. Etc.

There are logical reasons, minus climate change, why I'd like to be greener and cleaner.

I have to pay carbon tax and don't even believe in it.

Oh, and don't forget acid rain! I hope we don't have any of those damn sub-human Fox-news-watching acid rain denying filth on here!

http://www.foe.co.uk/imgs/008_litmus_billboard_750.jpg

http://newint.org/archive/images/iss...cs_rainpic.gif

http://img.docstoccdn.com/thumb/orig/80142928.png

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/publications...fig5jpgmed.jpg

:disgust:disgust:disgust

'yearly record profits.. '

I've been hearing that said by Bill Maher over and over on "Real Time". (love that show)

But you know what? When I was in highschool in the 1970's we were told that Solar Power was already here. We already were making solar panels decades before the Chinese ever thought about it.

Hell, Jimmy Carter had solar panels installed on the White House during his presidency (Reagan had them taken down lol)

Not sure if "lobbyists" stopped our country from using solar panels since the freakin' 1970's.

And if solar power is viable...it shouldn't need govt. subsidies.

Just open a company and sell the goddamned solar panels at a price people can afford.

I wanted to put a system on my last home in South Carolina in 2007. I wanted the full home system so that my entire house ran off of solar energy. It would have the panel array sitting in my back yard and it moved with the sun.

Sounds great! And we DO have the technology and have had it for decades (not China).

But guess what?

The cost for that system was $57,000!!!!!!!!

So if I had bought it....let's see...my power bill in South Carolina averaged $300 a month or $3,600 per year.

So it would have taken me 16 years to just break even!!!

THAT is what the problem is. Not lobbyists, not conservatives...but price.

Now, 6 years later...they have newer panels that don't need to be on the "follow the sun" mechanical device. But fit on your roof like the old style ones did.

For a big house like mine, I'd need the biggest one they have. Looks to be $28,000 or $33,000 according to which type of panel you use.
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/produc...ridwithGridtie

That is just the cost of the system by the way.

You still need to get someone to install it and get it wired into the power of the home and have the power company come out and install the piece that takes you "off the grid" etc.
So add another 10 grand.

That is just WAY too expensive for the average American family trying to get by in this world of a bad economy, taxes everywhere (local, state, fed, property, and now ObamaCare)

So don't believe all the horseshit that you may hear.

Solar energy is already available and has been since the late 60's / early 1970's.

It's just too goddamned expensive for the average person to afford.

And as I said earlier...instead of handing out a couple of TRILLION dollars to banks to "save" the economy, the U.S. govt. COULD have instead used that money to put solar power on every home and business in the U.S.

That would have put millions of people to work as installers, pumped all that money into the economy and singlehandedly jumpstarted the "green energy" industry as well as reduced the "carbon footprint" of the U.S. substantially.

Wonder why they didn't do that?

Answer: Because they wanted to funnel all that money to their cronies. They are politicians and don't really believe in man-made climate change either. It's all about money.

yes, but feeble evidence backing up that we have caused any of it.

there has always been climate change, one excruciatingly long cycle.. but most of the minds in here can't look beyond their own life times no less multi generational and you are stuck with alarmists like you acting like we are actually significant when we are not much more than ants when it comes to life forms on this planet.

ITT: Retards :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Spent 2 months recently on the beaches north of Sydney - saw some old photos of a nice surf break in the club rooms.

Ocean hasn't risen an inch in 100 years.

Glaciers in New Zealand (Fox, Franz Joseph, Earnslaw - ones that I've touched in the last 12 months) are growing and the South Poler Ice Caps are growing.

You can pick facts to support any argument.

I just prefer to call it weather.


Dave

Or... We are coming out an "ice age"?

I'm not kidding. We accept our weather as "the norm" when the truth is our planet is changing with or without us.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

I don't deny climate change. It's a natural part of how the earth works. I do think it's a tad spurious to blame it on people.
ds

You're even more correct than you think. The power plants that generate the electricity are themselves subsidized, so that would be an additional savings. Also, they have to be built for peak capacity, costing an enormous amount up front, whereas solar can be installed over time.

You might not travel much but the rest of the world takes it seriously. Even the Republican Party is having meetings about how they can change their stance to the right side without coming across bad.

I don't pay carbon taxes that I know of but I am still aware of this issue.

Some simple things to consider. Plants have zones where they can survive because of the average daily temperature. You can now use one zone lower in most areas. So it is hotter then when I was a kid. The gardeners of the world may be on conspiring on this but I doubt it.

You can walk on areas of Greenland that have never been visited by modern man as they were covered in ice.

Russia and China are in talks to open a Northern sea lane through the Arctic for shipping. This was not possible before as the ice was there.

These are some pretty diverse groups who are taking advantage of these changes. I don't think it is a conspiracy as these are pretty diverse groups here. Why is it happening? No idea. CO2 in the atmosphere is at the highest level ever recorded. We know that CO2 has an effect. That is a fact. So maybe this is related to the above facts.

I am sorry that your govt. doesn't feel a need to hold your hand and fix this for you.

uhm... whut??? How do you work that out then?

plenty of options for solar energy for your homes, i've recently received several quotes, the cost the costs have dropped dramatically and there are also tax incentives and such = to thousands of dollars, just do a search for solar energy in your city.

municipalities are also moving on it

With the flip of a switch, Las Vegas city officials today celebrated the powering up of 15,000 new solar panels that will provide energy to a nearby wastewater treatment plant.
The $20 million project will generate 6 million kilowatt hours of electricity annually, enough to provide about 20 percent of the treatment plant’s power.

Read more: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013...#ixzz2YYUQhgnE



http://solarpowerrocks.com/files/201...per-capita.png



usa is 2nd in the world for wind powered energy, 60 megawatts.

Hi Robbie,

I agree with you. Solar works, but its too expensive. A company can't open up in the states and make solar panels and expect to sell enough to be profitable, yet. This is why subsidies are needed.

The promise of clean energy is there. It is possible but lots of R&D still needs to be done. Other countries know this and are heavily invested in green energy. Only the United states is falling behind.