you must have no idea how many affiliates are bashing gammae programs for no sales.
nothing personal, but seriously

you are on the top of the most bashed programs for no sales

this statement coming from you has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read.

Your entire existence is arguments that involve such data... 90% of the internet would agree with me :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Where this thread is new in any way? Why anyone is replying to it rather than post a link to hundreds of threads with the same discussion made in past 5+ years here? And why to discuss this if there's no Paul Markham anymore?

Anyway,

Cam sites who are estabilished (up since let's say before 2008 or max 2009), are ok for sales trend today. I know by talking with a few owners. And by direct data: 2012 sales was higher than 2011 sales for our program (checked with accountant at tax reports); 2013 I did not made partial comparative stats yet, but should be no less than 2012 again.
Note that summer is 20-30% less sales for cam programs too (again I checked this with some bigger guys). But it recovers always.

But this does not mean, if pay site dies you should open cam sites. Most or all the new cam sites (from programs who are new, or did not had another cam site before), who launched in past 2 years it, failed (ended up as whitelabel etc.) or made no profit yet (they're in loss, wheter or not they will admit it). So opening a pay site it may be less risky and expensive than a cam site (as long as you're not willing to do an holywood studio), but, the probability of profit are still limited (someone here may remember some programs/billers moving $20 million a month in early 2000's... that's sure gone times).

What about open ad networks for tubes instead? :)

send me the link, I will post it for you.

Threads like this are funny to me now - just like the 'sales are slow' threads. This "Industry" is not really an "Industry" at all, just a collection of independent peddlers selling their wares however they can sell them.

So what is true for one "businessman" certainly isn't true of another "businessman" doing the same exact business. Everyone works differently, has different skills, motivation and intelligence. So all this comparison and authoritative predicting is a waste of time, whether it comes from Signupdammit or Deitz.

Still see partners sending + 100 joins a day. Sales aren't dead...

haven't you received it? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I still make daily sales with TGPs that I built in 2011 and 2012 ;)

Id imagine 70 percent of the affiliate programs you sent to in 2011 are now no longer paying out or recording sales. But apparently they are all going under due to all the increase in business.

Well said, Mister... ;-)

Saying that there's no money in online porn, is like saying that there's no salt in seawater.

I hear you, but you're off. The customers are there with money to spend for quality service. The only thing that has changed since the 90's is that there is more competition for those customers.

My advice to you : Try harder. Your competitors are working harder now so you should too.

There exists a great disparity between what about 12 people who constantly reply to these types of threads usually with personal attacks, hyperbole, and anecdotes rather than meaningful data and evidence say here on GFY versus what the rest of the internet believes in regard to paying for porn as well as what the majority of the adult inclusive of those who left the industry in the last five years market believes. XBIZ and approximately 70% of all respondents to the cited poll also seem to believe that industry totals are now below $10 billion.

If someone has real meaningful data showing that porn is thriving and has grown since 2005 let them show it. The only one who has even halfway made the attempt that I know of is Fabian from Manwin. Personal attacks, calling people Paul Markham, and talking about how you are doing great isn't evidence beyond the small piece of the market you control and in your own mind.

Also if there is someone here who does over a billion in revenue per year in adult just let me know and provide some basic evidence for that. I'll gladly listen to your anecdotes because if you believe porn is around 10 billion then that means you control at least 10% of the industry. But I don't even think Manwin does that which says something. Who here believes Manwin does over a billion a year? I doubt even Fabian will come on here and say they do. I might be wrong! :)

Interesting topic

I don't care WHO does the "reporting" because mentioning figures - 10 billion, 5 billion, 100 million - without actual proof is what we used to call in journalism a "red herring". Meaning: bullshit. People are pulling these numbers out of their asses, it's ALL "guesstimates" based on......what? NO ONE fully or accurately reports income in Adult - NO ONE - so trying to come up with figures is a pointless and misleading exercise in futility.

All this does - polls, articles about decreasing revenues, etc - ALL it does is play to people's alread-established FEELINGS that things are getting worse yet no one - NO ONE - has accurate data to back this up. So we can just throw that 10 billion/5 billion figure(s) out the window. LOL

What we are left with IS anecdotal evidence because - AGAIN - that's ALL we have. Period. Fuck, we can't even research revenue by pulling public tax returns since so many companies aren't US-based. So we can all 'react' to this number or that number but it's in a vacuum, it's not accurate, and all it does is confirm one's 'feelings' one way or the other. It's ridiculous but very entertaining. LOL

Start an ad-network, that seem to be the latest trend.
Piracy traffic, thats where the money is at i guess...

I still own TGPs that send traffic to paysites.

I'm still making money. It's not like it's 2004, but it's good. Dating is really good.

how do you explain that most tgps have been converted to tubes or closed?
and seriously... tubes can't sell paysites on a huge scale, they just generate traffic to sell it further.

the same happens to paysites. i can tell that there're very few professional teams left. most of known programs are either gone or cut all the marketing and staff. not because they do like they did in 2004

this thread got too much bs from not actual webmasters or program owners

i'm happy for those who still does good in this business, but it's rather exception. you must be either bright, creative, hard working or lucky ass ;)

Here's what it is:

paysite sales are not dead. Most affiliates' traffic sources are. Get the right traffic, for the right sites, and you'll make bank. Just like it always was, and just like it will always be.

Traffic was, is, and always will be, absolute king. Yes of course ratios are worse now on average, but this is a stone cold fact: right here, in august 2013, the right traffic for non-generic porn does 1:100 or less. Do what you gotta do to get some :thumbsup

Look at your original source of traffic in 'insert last good year here', and how it's dropped today, and there's your answer, same as always. It's the 1 constant.

also: there isn't a finite amount of money that can be spent on buying porn - get that idea out of your head, the 10bn vs 5bn vs Xbn has fuck all to do with anything - fuck all :) Ignore it, throw it away, whatever - just don't focus on that meaningless data, whether it's anecdotal or cold hard fact.

It's true that back in the day there was a bubble that made it possible to sell with relatively little effort or vision or market research or business savvy. That bubble burst of course. Now people who still expect that to be the case wind up banging their heads against the wall doing the same old thing, and then proclaiming the industry/model dead

But there's still money to be made in paysites with the right niche(s), the corresponding traffic, and a bit of savvy & creativity. But yeah - "generic" and "formulaic" once did a serviceable job in online adult, no longer.

it's ridiculous
you say people who watch porn in one way aren't good (affiliates' traffic sources) and some other people watching porn are good
how can be that?

if everything is right most of people should be good porn watchers, while they are not and good porn watchers are exception.

i have a program seeking 3-5 serious webmasters.
no more.
if you want to try something not being promoted by 1000 other people be in touch mr deiz.

i have no problem with finding sponsors to promote
i promote 4k sponsors and 15k sites via my directories and a few targeted ones with high scores.
content is overproduced, customers are spoiled and it's distributed for free. i don't think you have something which will make the customers buy disregarding those conditions

well you are welcome to continue to bitch here instead

best wishes

you must have taken me offensive while i'm not
i'm saying that the problem stated here is not because of lack of good programs to promote. you might have the best porn in the world, but you still won't sell it as it's supposed to be sell. i mean once everyone who liked it will pay for it. that's not going to happen because porn gets better and better every single day, everything gets covered and on the other side there're free-distribution networks preferred by surfers

it's the environment, not specific stuff

try this

it should help you get sales

http://wouj.com/dissonance.htm

It cracks me up that so many fucking idiots can wake up every day and place what is a severely limiting belief on themselves - "I can't succeed"/"I won't succeed" and then spend the rest of the day proving themselves right WHILE patting themselves on the back for being so "smart" and having it all figured out.

Some of you people are just simple minded idiots that should be flipping burgers. There is not a single successful person anywhere that wakes up and starts their day believing they will fail, except for you fucking idiots.

You are losers
You are unemployable
You are failures

this is probably the only post i have seen you make that i can agree on.
however id be less harsh..lol

Met-Art seems to be swooping in and scooping up a fair share of ailing paysites.

I will laugh when advertisers will start quitting this free-porn-tube-era-model.

It's obvious they don't make much money, speaking about ROI.

So, free tube sites, who will pay your hosting bill? You better save some money for the days to come.

Here's the problem with Deiz (and this is true of 99% of GFYers who bitch about their lack of success): he has an entire business built up to sell his (affiliate) porn a specific way (directories, links, etc). Well guess what? You're having trouble selling your (affiliate) porn via the traditional way you always used to sell it.

So why don't you try something - prepared to be shocked by this now - DIFFERANT? How about de-emphasizing SignBucksDaily and trying a tube, or a cam site, perhaps an enhanced TGP - anything other than how you've made your money in the past.

But nope, Deiz and all the others won't do this because their ego is stuck to their own past success. I understand it's hard to scrap something that's been your baby for years but if that baby is no longer producing like it did (or should) then move on and have another baby, let the old kid fend for himself. LOL

Advertising never quit. There is always some. Not necessarily adult, be it gambling or "make money" scams.
Guys should all open ad networks for tubes, and try to get a spot in xhamster's, that's the future.

I love where this is heading.

I don't get why certain people are always personalizing the discussion where they think if someone brings up a decline in the industry or something negative in any way shape or form they are "complaining" and "stating they aren't making any money".

At first I thought maybe it was just a few people who occasionally misunderstood or just wanted to be asses and fight but there seem to be some people who for whatever reason cannot see a difference between these two things.

A discussion like this is on a macro level and not the micro level. When you make it out to be on the micro level it's totally inappropriate and mostly irrelevant. Knowing overall trends is useful for the business and I guarantee any major company in the industry is asking these same questions and trying to forecast in order to determine where they should focus future efforts for maximum profit. At least that is what real corporations outside of adult do. They even hire an entire economics department to consider these questions.

2005 called. They want your post back.

Affiliates need to think carefully about the process the average paying surfer goes through before they eventually join a site. :2 cents:

I found this on the Wikipedia article for Manwin:

In another thread I tried to figure it up.

100 million video views a day
$3 cpm

$300,000 a day or $110 million a year

That's not a lot considering how much traffic they are pulling. So the "low margin" statement is probably dead on if the numbers are anywhere near this. It's astounding to think that all those tubes that size only do that much money when say in comparison CCBill recently stated that they process over 1 billion in annual transactions. I was reading another article yesterday where CBS I believe spoke of a trend where advertising dollars for online companies tend to be peanuts in comparison to the subscription model. Interesting to consider that as applied to our industry.

Clearly most people here are emotionally attached to their businesses that they built from the ground up, I know I am. If someone says "paysite sales are dead", and I run a paysite, it strikes a nerve. You don't see me trolling the blog threads every day.

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-29297081.html

<jaw drop>

Surely they are confusing hits with visitors or something? Is that really possible 533 million visits per day?

I think he is Russian? I don't think he meant that it's dead as in zero, impossible, nothing, everyone go home. If he did I doubt he'd keep his site up. Don't take it personally what happens overall as a trend can be completely different than what happens for you. And if you still do well it means it's that much more of an accomplishment.

They mean views. LOL Since there are only 6-7 billion people on the entire planet that would mean every single human being would have to visit Manwin sites 3 times a month. Or maybe 1 billion people visiting 18 times a month......naw, they mean views.

Adultmobile, there will always be blank advertisement (scam). They don't pay much. I am talking about adult programs. Why would anybody high bid if he can't make a profit.

Money they are making from ads will go down.

And one day, not so far away..

http://newsbusters.org/sites/default...uly/Bubble.jpg

He is?

Why is he pretending to be American?

The problem is there is nothing factual to base an industry wide discussion on, the only facts we have is what we directly see in our own stats, everything else is a SWAG (scientific wild assed guess).

You see pay site sales as terrible, I see them as booming. Method of sale is just different

You ain't seen nothing yet. Wait for the real crash, the Netflix of porn.
For 10 bucks/month you get all the porn you want in HD quality.
Only micro-niches are left over to make money with.

each market has periods of growth, stability and recession
period of growth is ended

it's not good and not bad
it's natural

or you stay and compete or you go