stats please :disgust

you'll find them in 2 min at signbucks

it's signbucks' forum and i can't post link here

Hey man it was a just a joke, but I still don't agree with you on the subject, regarding how big it is and so on.
Instead I see a lot of small time webmasters fucking it up every single moment and not taking things seriously enough. It's hard to make money in every industry if you just make a blog, work one hour per day , drink beer in the rest of the time and expecting to make it big time....

summer slowdown

http://www.google.com/search?q="summer+slowdown"

Fact: This business is full of morons.

I did that but that can't change what is really meant to be in fact "G" is my only source of traffic.

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/busi...own-6C10205125

That's called an anecdote. Moreover it's more an emotional argument than anything. You can't make that sort of statement (and without any proof or specifics) and expect it to answer a question such as "Is there less money in the adult industry today versus 2005?" It just doesn't work like that. It's like spitting on your finger and holding it out to check the temperature versus using a proper thermometer.

It would be nice if we had real solid data but we don't. The XBIZ poll among 311 members is based on anecdotal data largely too. However it's probably a little more credible than a very small group of paysite owners and reps for paysites on gfy talking about how things are better than ever and how only the small lazy people are having problems (or people who haven't adapted, bad content, not high quality enough, or whatever the explanation is today). I do think some paysite owners are still doing fairly well and some affiliates too. But we are talking overall averages here (as well as industry totals) and not just a couple paysites or affiliates.

Congratulations to the people still doing well. Particularly the honest ones. In a way if the industry really did shrink by 50% since 2005 that just makes the accomplishment all that more impressive. I was still doing very well as a paysite affiliate up until October of last year with a Google change. Prior to that the paysite metrics were worse but I was making it up on increased volume.

Odd, our sites continue to grow month after month, and our affiliate sales have increased every month this year except one...

Maybe it's not a "people don't want to pay for porn anymore"-problem. Maybe it's an "increasing amount of people that have less and less to spend every month"-problem.
If you think this crisis will soon be over... think again... it has yet to begin... Things will get very very nasty... What we experienced the last few years is peanuts compared to what is coming.

The Great Default: Why Taxpayers Cannot Grow Their Way Out of the Government's Problem
Gary North - August 17, 2013

In assessing whether or not the United States government will be able to maintain Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid payments to all of the people who have been promised such payments, we must assess the ability of the federal government to collect sufficient revenues to make these payments.A standard suggestion by liberals, who deeply believe in these programs, is to say that what needs to be estimated is the Gross Domestic Product of the entire nation. Then, once this is estimated, it becomes possible to determine whether or not the federal government will be able to make the payments. Here is a recent example.

A fundamental problem with this approach is this: it assumes that the United States government has a legal claim on 100% of the productivity of the residents of the United States. This is politically naïve. We know from experience that the limit of the federal government's ability to collect revenues is somewhere in the range of 20% of GDP. It never exceeds this by much. It has not exceeded it since World War II, and it has never reached 21%. So, while it is instructive to look at what GDP is likely to be, there has to be a limit on the possibility of the federal government's extracting sufficient revenues to maintain its payments.

The next step is to assess what percentage of the federal budget can be allocated to maintaining these payments. One thing is certain: it is not 100%. The federal government has other responsibilities, and any attempt to cut back on any expenditures will be fought tooth and nail by organized groups that have a stake in the subsidies. Furthermore, there will be infighting within the federal bureaucracy as a matter of turf protection. Any attempt by the Social Security Administration to extract wealth, meaning budgetary allocations, from any of these rival federal bureaucracies will lead to a political standoff.

So, from the beginning, we must assume the following. First, it is unlikely that the federal government will be able to collect more than 20% of GDP from the public. Second, it is unlikely that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid will ever exceed 60% of the federal budget. It is around 50% today. There is too much political power lodged in other special-interest groups, which are represented by the bureaucracies within the federal government. These people will not give up without a series of political fights.

It is now highly unlikely that the economy of the United States in real terms will exceed an annual increase as high as 3% per annum. The GDP of the United States is around $17 trillion today. Multiply this by about 20%, or .2. That is about $3.5 trillion. At present, the government pulls in only about $2.5 trillion. It borrows the rest. Multiply this by .6: 60% of the budget. That is about $1.5 trillion. That is about the maximum that the government can expect to spend on the major items of the unfunded liabilities.

There is no way that an increase of 3% per annum to this figure of $1.5 trillion will enable the United States government to pay its obligations for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Kotlikoff estimated the present value of the unfunded liabilities in 2012 as $222 trillion. I know of no estimate that places this lower than about $70 trillion. Note: these are unfunded liabilities, not total expenditures on the programs.

There is no way statistically that this can be paid off. Liberals can dance around the figures, and pretend that "we" are going to grow our way out of this. We are not going to grow our way out of this. The government is going to default its way out of this.

It is indicative of the complete bankruptcy of the present political order that no national leader will face up publicly to these facts. This is true throughout the Western world. Back in 1999, Peter G. Peterson wrote in his book, Gray Dawn, that he had discussed this matter with political leaders around the world. He said that not one of them was unfamiliar with it, and he also said that not one of them had spoken publicly about it. Peterson was the chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations. He had access to these leaders. He was in a position to know what they believed. He was also in a position to know what they had done. What they believed had nothing to do with what they had done.

There is going to be a Great Default. There is no escape from this. People can prepare for it, or they can ignore it, but statistical games will not enable the United States government to do anything except default.

you must have no idea how many affiliates are bashing gammae programs for no sales.
nothing personal, but seriously

you are on the top of the most bashed programs for no sales

this statement coming from you has got to be the funniest thing I have ever read.

Your entire existence is arguments that involve such data... 90% of the internet would agree with me :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Where this thread is new in any way? Why anyone is replying to it rather than post a link to hundreds of threads with the same discussion made in past 5+ years here? And why to discuss this if there's no Paul Markham anymore?

Anyway,

Cam sites who are estabilished (up since let's say before 2008 or max 2009), are ok for sales trend today. I know by talking with a few owners. And by direct data: 2012 sales was higher than 2011 sales for our program (checked with accountant at tax reports); 2013 I did not made partial comparative stats yet, but should be no less than 2012 again.
Note that summer is 20-30% less sales for cam programs too (again I checked this with some bigger guys). But it recovers always.

But this does not mean, if pay site dies you should open cam sites. Most or all the new cam sites (from programs who are new, or did not had another cam site before), who launched in past 2 years it, failed (ended up as whitelabel etc.) or made no profit yet (they're in loss, wheter or not they will admit it). So opening a pay site it may be less risky and expensive than a cam site (as long as you're not willing to do an holywood studio), but, the probability of profit are still limited (someone here may remember some programs/billers moving $20 million a month in early 2000's... that's sure gone times).

What about open ad networks for tubes instead? :)

send me the link, I will post it for you.

Threads like this are funny to me now - just like the 'sales are slow' threads. This "Industry" is not really an "Industry" at all, just a collection of independent peddlers selling their wares however they can sell them.

So what is true for one "businessman" certainly isn't true of another "businessman" doing the same exact business. Everyone works differently, has different skills, motivation and intelligence. So all this comparison and authoritative predicting is a waste of time, whether it comes from Signupdammit or Deitz.

Still see partners sending + 100 joins a day. Sales aren't dead...

haven't you received it? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I still make daily sales with TGPs that I built in 2011 and 2012 ;)

Id imagine 70 percent of the affiliate programs you sent to in 2011 are now no longer paying out or recording sales. But apparently they are all going under due to all the increase in business.

Well said, Mister... ;-)

Saying that there's no money in online porn, is like saying that there's no salt in seawater.

I hear you, but you're off. The customers are there with money to spend for quality service. The only thing that has changed since the 90's is that there is more competition for those customers.

My advice to you : Try harder. Your competitors are working harder now so you should too.

There exists a great disparity between what about 12 people who constantly reply to these types of threads usually with personal attacks, hyperbole, and anecdotes rather than meaningful data and evidence say here on GFY versus what the rest of the internet believes in regard to paying for porn as well as what the majority of the adult inclusive of those who left the industry in the last five years market believes. XBIZ and approximately 70% of all respondents to the cited poll also seem to believe that industry totals are now below $10 billion.

If someone has real meaningful data showing that porn is thriving and has grown since 2005 let them show it. The only one who has even halfway made the attempt that I know of is Fabian from Manwin. Personal attacks, calling people Paul Markham, and talking about how you are doing great isn't evidence beyond the small piece of the market you control and in your own mind.

Also if there is someone here who does over a billion in revenue per year in adult just let me know and provide some basic evidence for that. I'll gladly listen to your anecdotes because if you believe porn is around 10 billion then that means you control at least 10% of the industry. But I don't even think Manwin does that which says something. Who here believes Manwin does over a billion a year? I doubt even Fabian will come on here and say they do. I might be wrong! :)

Interesting topic

I don't care WHO does the "reporting" because mentioning figures - 10 billion, 5 billion, 100 million - without actual proof is what we used to call in journalism a "red herring". Meaning: bullshit. People are pulling these numbers out of their asses, it's ALL "guesstimates" based on......what? NO ONE fully or accurately reports income in Adult - NO ONE - so trying to come up with figures is a pointless and misleading exercise in futility.

All this does - polls, articles about decreasing revenues, etc - ALL it does is play to people's alread-established FEELINGS that things are getting worse yet no one - NO ONE - has accurate data to back this up. So we can just throw that 10 billion/5 billion figure(s) out the window. LOL

What we are left with IS anecdotal evidence because - AGAIN - that's ALL we have. Period. Fuck, we can't even research revenue by pulling public tax returns since so many companies aren't US-based. So we can all 'react' to this number or that number but it's in a vacuum, it's not accurate, and all it does is confirm one's 'feelings' one way or the other. It's ridiculous but very entertaining. LOL

Start an ad-network, that seem to be the latest trend.
Piracy traffic, thats where the money is at i guess...

I still own TGPs that send traffic to paysites.

I'm still making money. It's not like it's 2004, but it's good. Dating is really good.

how do you explain that most tgps have been converted to tubes or closed?
and seriously... tubes can't sell paysites on a huge scale, they just generate traffic to sell it further.

the same happens to paysites. i can tell that there're very few professional teams left. most of known programs are either gone or cut all the marketing and staff. not because they do like they did in 2004

this thread got too much bs from not actual webmasters or program owners

i'm happy for those who still does good in this business, but it's rather exception. you must be either bright, creative, hard working or lucky ass ;)

Here's what it is:

paysite sales are not dead. Most affiliates' traffic sources are. Get the right traffic, for the right sites, and you'll make bank. Just like it always was, and just like it will always be.

Traffic was, is, and always will be, absolute king. Yes of course ratios are worse now on average, but this is a stone cold fact: right here, in august 2013, the right traffic for non-generic porn does 1:100 or less. Do what you gotta do to get some :thumbsup

Look at your original source of traffic in 'insert last good year here', and how it's dropped today, and there's your answer, same as always. It's the 1 constant.

also: there isn't a finite amount of money that can be spent on buying porn - get that idea out of your head, the 10bn vs 5bn vs Xbn has fuck all to do with anything - fuck all :) Ignore it, throw it away, whatever - just don't focus on that meaningless data, whether it's anecdotal or cold hard fact.

It's true that back in the day there was a bubble that made it possible to sell with relatively little effort or vision or market research or business savvy. That bubble burst of course. Now people who still expect that to be the case wind up banging their heads against the wall doing the same old thing, and then proclaiming the industry/model dead

But there's still money to be made in paysites with the right niche(s), the corresponding traffic, and a bit of savvy & creativity. But yeah - "generic" and "formulaic" once did a serviceable job in online adult, no longer.

it's ridiculous
you say people who watch porn in one way aren't good (affiliates' traffic sources) and some other people watching porn are good
how can be that?

if everything is right most of people should be good porn watchers, while they are not and good porn watchers are exception.

i have a program seeking 3-5 serious webmasters.
no more.
if you want to try something not being promoted by 1000 other people be in touch mr deiz.

i have no problem with finding sponsors to promote
i promote 4k sponsors and 15k sites via my directories and a few targeted ones with high scores.
content is overproduced, customers are spoiled and it's distributed for free. i don't think you have something which will make the customers buy disregarding those conditions

well you are welcome to continue to bitch here instead

best wishes

you must have taken me offensive while i'm not
i'm saying that the problem stated here is not because of lack of good programs to promote. you might have the best porn in the world, but you still won't sell it as it's supposed to be sell. i mean once everyone who liked it will pay for it. that's not going to happen because porn gets better and better every single day, everything gets covered and on the other side there're free-distribution networks preferred by surfers

it's the environment, not specific stuff

try this

it should help you get sales

http://wouj.com/dissonance.htm