I would say you're mind is closed to ANYTHING that is not of your opinion... :2 cents:

all I've ever done is point out to you there is another side to every issue and that other side as JUST as much right to their opinion as you do your and all you've done is scream racism, bigot and gay basher... so please don't try and tell me who has a closed mind dipshit :2 cents: (notice I didn't write fag?? :winkwink:)0

I realize you're not addressing that to me, but I covered that point previously but it seems you missed it:

Please feel free to counter-point. I await with baited breath the deep insights your brilliant reply will bring to the discussion. Or not. :upsidedow

First amendment tossed out of the window. Nation, rejoice!

Hi there, welcome to the discussion!

You might want to peruse the previous posts, as the First Amendment angle was already discussed and specifically addressed by the Court in its judgment :1orglaugh

https://gfy.com/showpost.php?p=19787602&postcount=80

:banana:

http://moderateleft.com/wp-content/u...ailedtroll.jpg

Nice meltdown... :1orglaugh

The funny part, is that you consider yourself an intellectual, and bristle at the suggestion that anyone would dare call you a racist after making numerous posts with comments such as these:

The amazing part is that you consider yourself intellectual, yet you cannot see any racism in your words quoted above. :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

:stoned

ADG

It appears to me you?re either deaf or just plain dumb. Just like Catholic adoption services refuse gay couples to adopt children thru their services, shops like this one will become ?Christian?, ?Halal? or whatever the fuck their religious orientation is. or simply private membership club. They will be forced to do so.

I think you left off..."They will be forced to do so" if they want to continue discriminating against people. :1orglaugh

:stoned

ADG

Actually Grapesoda has a right to voice his views, however racist and fucked up they might seem, as protected by free speech.

The thing with free speech is that most people think it means "ban everything I don't agree with and allow anything I agree with" which is wrong.

True free speech also means defending peoples' right to voice views you disagree or even hate.

For example the Westboro Baptist Church have a right to voice their homophobic views and I would defend that right, as I have a right to call them a bunch of retarded shit-flinging monkeys to their face because it's my personal opinion.

Now where it gets tricky is when you ACT upon those views, for example denying somebody a job because they're gay/straight/black/white/christian/muslim/in a wheelchair/etc.

That's what anti-discriminatory laws are there for, to ensure society's members are treated equally. So in theory you can call somebody a fag, but you can't deny the fag a job. In practice things are trickier, what with slander laws, but hey no system is perfect.

So theoretically speaking Grapesoda could call me a homo-loving liberal communist clueless godless retard, and I could (theoretically speaking) call him an ignorant shit-for-brains pseudo-intellectual fuckwad, and we'd be protected by free speech because we'd be voicing our personal opinions.

BUT then we'd have to abide by the forum's code of conduct which would prohibit such behavior, which is why simply saying "fuck you, free speech yeah!" is not as simple in here or in the real world as it may seem :)

And by the way, it cuts both ways. I have seen a lot of cases where "liberals" call for censoring points of views which they disagree with, which is as wrong and short-sighted as when "conservatives" do it.

IMHO "Political correctness" is a well-intended, but horribly flawed movement.

I suspect you have severe difficulty to differentiate between being gay and obeying code of conduct and violating it saying " its all because Im gay". I suggest you invest some time and read up for example on Mary Kay and its corporate culture. Im not talking about door to door knocking moms, the corporate office. I know it first hand and I can tell you they do not discriminate because you're gay but they will throw your ass out if you bring your BF to Christmas Party thinking its ok to make out with him to prove your point.

you can't help it can you?

No. I can't go to Halal or Kosher shop and demand ham sandwich. Thats not discrimination. It specifically says "Halal" and if I bring my own Ham sandwich, they have right to throw my ass out. Next time this lady will slap fish sticker on her door and puts a sign "Christian photography by Lucy Ann".
For real, someone needs to target gay businesses with very same tactic. Bring some bumper sticker designs with Westboro Baptist Logo for print, get in dog for grooming and call him "Fag"... :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh

look you cant twist stuff around anyway you that makes you feel better, I don't mind... and I don't take it personally. I know you're struggling to come to terms with your failures in life... I don't mind, seriously... be well

actually I have no opinion of your other than your passive aggressive, with an over blown sense of ego... other than that I have no ideas about you at all... I have no idea if your gay, not gay, fuck dogs, don't fuck dogs... black, white, green, blue... whatever...and in all honesty your personal life and 'ethnicity is your business.

I was very interested to hear your thoughts on discrimination however you don't seem to be able to stay on track and constally revert to insults to back your 'positions'.. I'll just group with ADG and richard and move on... thanks..... be well

seeing more of this as the days go on :disgust

Ah but that's a different scenario all together then. The basic premise is different.

It seems she did not advertise herself as a "Christian" photographer but as simply a photographer, which would mean her services were open to all, which is why she had to abide by the anti-discriminatory law.

I agree that if she had let everyone know she was a "Christian/Muslim/Buddhist values" photographer then the case may have been different, but then the CIRCUMSTANCES would have been different.

That's like me walking into a restaurant which markets itself as Jewish an going "what do you mean I can't have a bacon sandwich I'M BEING DISCRIMINATED".

In that case I would have had previous warning that there would be limits to the menu (Jewish faith forbidding porc) so me claiming discrimination would be difficult to defend since it would have been clearly advertised the restaurant is Jewish.

And sure, I could try to defend my discrimination claim saying that simply because Jews don't eat porc doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to eat a bacon sandwich in a Jewish restaurant.

But in this society we must walk the line between the rights and obligations of the many against the few, and vice-versa.

Ah, and thats what I've been trying to tell you. Not that she doesn't do gay wedding but rather "events that contradict our business' code of conduct and may cause lose of revenue with in the community". So next time someone whats her to shoot Halloween fantasy fest parade, gay wedding or KKK cookout she cat tell them to fuck off.

I'm fucking stunned there is a law telling people who they can and can't do business with, even though I don't agree with the views of the prejudiced even the slightest little bit. I'm even more stunned so few people have a problem with that. Want to be an ignorant racist/sexist/homophobic/fill-in-the-blank and refuse good money - go right ahead.

If someone doesn't want my money, or to help me out because I'm white/straight/english/londoner/blahblah - fucking good luck to them, that's their complete and utter right.

I don't know what this thread is about at all, I haven't read a single post, not even the original. I'm totally and completely ignorant of anything relevant to this discussion so therefore I am the perfect typical American ready to express my expert opinion:

Fuck them fags. Let 'em marry whoever the fuck they want. Fuck straight people too while we're at it. Fuck everybody, fuck it ALL.

Now what's this all about then?
I don't wanna get married!

But it's not a code of conduct she'd need (codes of conduct are I believe limited to company employees, who usually sign a contract which includes it), it's using the protection which the law offers to religious beliefs which would give her the free card.

Or like I previously stated, make her life even simpler and decline the job using the "I'm already booked" excuse.

Her mistake was violating the law by giving the "I don't do business with homosexuals" as the excuse, which would have been the same as if she'd say "I don't do business with cripples/fatties/blacks/jews/men with mustaches".

You should take some time and read up on the suffragette movement, then the civil rights movement. Anti-discriminatory laws didn't simply spring out of some magical lamp one day with the sole intent of outraging your sense of what is "fair".

Get some historical perspective :banana

She is an employee and owner. If you ever been around crazy Pentecostal community like I was you'd know how there are certain rules you go by and everyone is watching you. You can't date Catholic girl, you can't be around people who consume alcohol etc. Do I like it? Fuck no.. And for person who goes to gay wedding its going to be fucking taboo. Shame.. Trader.. Ever thought of it this way? For fuck sake, do go to Utah and see how that shit fly there with Mormons.

Im glad my biz is not mainstream and I can just 'say no' to fetishes and stuff I don't want to do. Or acknowledge. And dont get me wrong my favorite son is gay. But freedom to do biz with who you want should go same with shop owners as with customers.

Ah but there's that little word you used which should give you a hint of what the difference is: "community".

If you live in a community which has certain rules and expected mode of behavior you're expected to follow its rules and modes of behavior. And surprise surprise, this is how most human communities/societies work.

It goes back to humanities' tribal roots, so acting like this is some shocking development is at best naive.

Sure, fringe closed societies like the Mormons or the Amish have, to our eyes, batshit crazy beliefs and methods of behavior. Just like to THEM the ways of OUR society might seem batshit crazy. It's called cultural perspective.

Your last statement implies that you have a personal history with religious batshit-craziness which influences your judgment and is the main driving force behind the argument you're trying to make, which frankly by this point I can't make heads or tails of :1orglaugh

A few other viewpoints to mull:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sit...edding_a_p.jpg

http://www.therichest.com/wp-content...id-Furnish.jpg

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7...sid1o1_500.jpg

http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2...ixon-2-300.jpg

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/sla...gle3-large.jpg

http://media.salon.com/2012/09/gay_family_rect.jpg

http://itsconceivablenow.com/wp-cont...tter-Photo.png

http://www.aamft.org/imis15/Images/C...sexparents.jpg

:stoned

ADG

Okay, so let's say we're back in the fifties and somehow everyone finds out your favorite son is gay because he sure as fuck can't go around saying he's gay unless he wants to risk being beaten to death.

He's immediately fired from his job because he's gay and nobody else will hire him because of it. In fact, he can be sent to jail or if he's lucky put in a mental hospital because of his sexual orientation, which is seen as a dangerous mental illness.

And all companies you did business with stop dealing with you because your son is gay, therefore something is definitely wrong with you, making you untrustworthy.

And it's perfectly legal, and your son as well as you have no legal recourse because anti-discriminatory laws do not exist.

So be careful what you wish for :2 cents:

I do, and as much as I dislike it, I learned how to respect it. Be it Mormon, Muslim, Vegan or what the fuck ever. It has zero influence on my judgment. The coin has two sides, and so far we are only seeing one. You really think Westboro guy can walk in to San Francisco photo studio and ask them to take pictures? Give me a fucking break.
ADG, would you do it? :1orglaugh

What if its the other way around? You live in tight community.. lets say some place in WV and you are forced to deal with one gay couple. They are just fucking with you. They come there on vacation and just do it for fuck of it.. You bend over and what? Whats left of your personal beliefs and on?
Im not religious and all but if some vegetarian or vegan fuck was trying to flex his "constitutional rights" by my BBQ grill, I think I have a right to tell him to fuck off. And kick his ass.

ADG, you are one of the most respected guys in my book. But please don't tell me you're going have same attitude with someone hiring you for prepaid photo shoot with banner "Zyclon B for Japas"..

Not all gay people want to sue you or want ur services. Gay photographers are better anyway.

Apples and Oranges... :banana

Zyclon B for Japas? Not even sure what that means. Japas is Polish? :helpme

I think you meant Zyklon:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...0Ujs3JBPOp6NI3

I don't operate a printing company, and I would refuse to print hate speech in any case, if that is what you are getting at, but you obviously don't understand what kind of business I operate.

Anyway, if you're such a big fan of moi, I'm not sure why you always seem to have such a big hard on for me when you have so many other people to hate on around here at GFY... :1orglaugh

http://godmakeslemonstoo.com/wordpre...rose-signs.jpg

Minimum $1,500, and maybe. He would have to keep his clothes on. :helpme :winkwink: :party-smi

One thing is for sure, the behind the scenes B reel would be a hoot. :1orglaugh

I don't currently operate a public studio, although I am looking at locations. :Graucho

Anyway, I've shot some really hot chicks from many religions, ethnicities, and sexual orientations, and even some chicks that weren't so hot. Occupational hazard. :warning

With that said, I don't shoot weddings: :mad:

http://webneel.com/daily/sites/defau...hy.preview.jpg

http://piximus.net/media/18729/funny...photos-2-1.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Fju8IUCUJa...ding-cakes.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uUU8DcUgFO...40/redneck.jpg

http://www.teamjimmyjoe.com/wp-conte...ing-Photos.jpg

http://www.aaanything.net/wp-content...ding_photo.jpg

Peace and Love to All, even the narrow-minded bigots... :)

:stoned

ADG