Im leaving California soon but it makes me laugh when I read "People are leaving California in droves".

Its like saying "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

Its jammed as fuck here, traffic everywhere, long lines for everything. I dont see people leaving.
I like california but Ill be be able to buy a house here, so leaving soon

It is not like its a secret. People with money are leaving. Dipshits with a dream of just flipping burgers for 12.00 an hr are flooding in. It began as the housing bubble started to peak and continues to this day.

It is kind of cute however that you simply looked out your window to gauge the health of the economy, housing market, job market and to determine exactly how many people were leaving and staying... and how many wealthy people were leaving and taking their money with them.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...or-Instability
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...861056966.html

Where are you getting your info that California businesses are leaving in droves?

Wyoming is the highest-rated state in the nation for business tax policy yet they are the only state in the country to lose population every year. If your theory was correct Wyoming and Alabama would be booming and places like NYC, Palo Alto, Silicon Valley would all be deserted and isolated.

I agree, most are under the impression that California is Los Angles, San Francisco, San Diego... California is a beautiful state of small communities and farms....

I've heard this mentioned several time... the tax base in California is getting smaller as companies relocated due to harsh legislation... ever wonder why movies are shot in Louisiana, New York and Canada? the rental house in California have moved the majority of their equipment out of the area.. I didn't read this online and can NOT show you the stats.. I know this from a 30 year relationship with the rental house that allows me to speak with the mangers that were working the counter when I started dealing with the vendors... belive it or not, as you will, I actually don't give a fuck what you think :2 cents:

Not that simple. Tax policy is just one thing. You can not compare it like that. The thing is that Wyoming with better tax policy would be better than Wyoming with worse tax policy. Completely does not mean that it would be better than any other state with worse tax policy.

Tell that to your right wing buddies who keep crying that high taxes are pushing businesses out of CA in droves.

It began as the housing market was heating up and getting out of control. Washington, Oregon and Vegas and other places were being flooded with wealthy Californians who could sell their shitbox McMansion for $5,000,000 in Palo Alto or where ever and buy a $1,000,000.00 McMansion in Seattle suburbs that was bigger and still have $4,000,000 in the bank. This all was probably most obvious to those around banking/finance/real estate/mortgages. There was a time in 06/07/08 where it was completely unreal how many Californians were buying property in Oregon and Washington and the impact they were having on the housing market and prices.

Would be cool to live in LA and watch them shoot Breaking Bad.... but you can't since they have to shoot it in New Mexico because of obscene taxes and unions in LA and California.

A good friend of mine, my best man twice, had a small software consulting company and lived in Marina Del Rey. He sold his house for more than 3 million, bought a nicer house in Ft Walton Beach Florida for under I million. Folded his California Corporation, restarted his business with a Florida corp saving over 10% yearly in taxes and is happier than hell to be out of California.

Just to make sure I understand, if a CA corporation does work in New Mexico or any other state they do not have to pay any state income taxes on their profit? Is that what you're saying?

Like I said:

CA with better taxation keeps and attracts more businesses than CA with worse taxation. Thats a fact. So no need to tell them anything. Well, maybe not in droves, but it has influence.

This fact is based on what data?

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics California was 3rd in the country for job growth between Dec 2011 and Dec 2012. The average for the entire country was 1.9% growth and CA came in at 3.3%.

I'm not saying higher taxes are a good thing but this argument that it causes businesses to pack up and leave is bunk.

Dude..............
For the third time:

a) CA with better taxation for business
b) CA with worse taxation for business

a would attract more businesses than b, a would keep more businesses than b. Thats simple logical fact.

If b provides growth (as you suggest) then a would provide even bigger growth.
How difficult is it to grasp?

Even Lpink gave you an example of one business that closed door and now is enjoying better taxes in another state. Not saying this particular example was solely due to taxation (because he speaks about cheaper house as well), but there definitely were a number of businesses that left for greener pastures. Thats such a simple thing to understand.

Once again, facts are not originated with something you think you know or heard, its based on hard data for which you have provided none of.

Go setup a sandwich shop in Santa Monica and setup another one in Casper Wyoming (where there is zero corporate tax, cheaper rent, labor, etc) and tell me which is more profitable when all is said and done.

There's a reason why taxes and real estate are cheaper in certain parts of the country, because nobody wants to fucking live there which means you have less of a customer base which means less profit. Its simple economics.

If I paid you $16 hourly to flip hamburgers, as opposed to $8 hourly - you would have twice as much money and I would have less profit. You would be able to afford more necessities and I would be have less money for luxuries. The combined amount of taxes we would pay would go towards projects other than funding welfare programs that you would be applying for if I was paying you $8 hourly, and if this was the case, I would then have little choice but to refer to you as a broke fucking moron loser for choosing to work for me instead of someone else willing to give you valuable on the job training skills that would secure you a $24 to $48 hourly wage in the future. What this boils down to is, you are only valuable to me and society if you make no more than $8 hourly and can live without any public financial aid.

See?

You don't always need hard statistical data to prove something.

Getting merchandise for cheap, putting it all under one roof and using it to lure in droves of potential consumers to expose to other cheap products.

Sure sounds awfully familiar.

http://m2.gfy.com/showthread.php?t=1119567

It's so obvious who here has ever employed entry level minimum wage workers and who hasn't. Fucking hilarious.

Agreed.

These threads tend to reinforce those who both have money to their name, as well as experience as a business owner. By that I mean, they know the true costs of running a business versus those clownshoes and Utopian dreamers who are more than happy to give away everyone else's money for the sake of being "fair". It's priceless comedy to be sure.

:2 cents:

Well, I know for a fact that I never suggested anything about giving away everyone else's money for the sake of being "fair". That would be like saying I wholeheartedly support a tax increase upon everyone to be used to fund welfare programs, which would be a very stooopid thing on anyone else's behalf to suggest.

So far, I've heard grumbling from Barefootsies from the very start of this thread, but most of it has come from that peculiar Squealer fellow who feels that raising the minimim wage will cheat him out of already acceptable low priced goods and services available at those places where minimum wage earners usually work. Places like Burger King. Wal-Mart. You know, those establishments frequented by a culture of cheap asses who wouldn't know something Made In U.S.A. if it bit them in the ass that L-Pink so passionately despises.

Which is weird, because I get mixed signals about his passion for the Wal-mart Business model that thrives on cutting corners and taking shortcuts for sake of maximizing profits.

Life isn't fair, you said so yourself and I'm not the one complaining. I'm actually having fun pointing out some ridiculous aspects of the ongoing topic.

Looking forward to another topic like this one. It was a real hoot.

Another pic of Whopper Floppers:

Robbie, thanks for making another actual and rather substantial contribution to the topic ..... unlike some other posters and topic starters.

heh-heh, I do what I can, I do what I can... :pimp

Everyone I knew in Seattle that was in mortgages and banking or real estate was overwhelmed with a flood of CA clients. This is largely why Washington did so well even through the worst of the down times. Its a really surreal time. ... er... i mean, apparently it didn't happen?

Keep up the good work, Mate!

:thumbsup

Actually it's usually accepted among most level headed and objective people that if one party has to constantly resort to insults or ad hominem attacks that it means they are unable to debate the topic properly and they have probably ran out of facts. Thus the tendency to resort to the insults and other logical fallacies.

Also I have to point out that talking big on the internet and insulting people left and right doesn't really prove that you are richer or more successful than anyone else. In fact usually it means the exact opposite as I have observed. You don't see a lot of successful people calling people burger floppers online and talking about being able to buy and sell people 100 times over. There is a reason for that. OTOH lots of people desperately try to be someone online that they are not in real life. Not that the size of your pocketbook means you have all the facts any more so than anyone else. That's another fallacy called argument from authority.

I welcome a chain operation like Wal-Mart selling Made In U.S.A. goods. Even if the cost was higher. There aren't many stores to choose from out in the middle of Nowheresville where I live. Wally World has some kind of 10 year / 50 Billion dollar plan in effect to get more of such merchandise on the shelves, but that is fraction of what the chain sellls in a year and 10 years is a long ass time to wait.

The food at Texas Roadhouse is a helluva lot more closer to the farm raised meats that I'm used to. I rarely frequent fast food joints.

And I can't really fathom anyone buying Christmas ornaments, unless they are in the habit of pitching them in the garbage every year for the last 50 years.

And fellows like Squealer get mad when you flake out like that.

You are missing my point.

Most of the same cheap, price is everything American consumers that bitch about burger flippers not making $15 an hour are the same people that in the name of "savings" don't bat an eye when their cheap products are made by slaves in other countries.


Here is an example of cheap foreign produced goods ????.

"Police and child advocates broke padlocks and busted down doors in a surprise raid of a sweatshop in India, only to find a group of children imprisoned who had been forced to make Christmas decorations.

The children were kept in rooms approximately six feet by six feet and had been forced to work up to 19-hour days making the decorations, which advocates believe may have been intended to be sold on the cheap in the United States.

Human rights group Global March for Children led the raid, but also got help from former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who now serves as the United Nations special envoy for global education."

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Exactly... They'll bump up into another bracket potentially..

Also another problem.. The cost of food will also now go up.. When they raised the minimum wage from $8.80 to $8.95 this year in Oregon the price of food went up all across the board.. Example.. one fast food Mexican restaurant raised their cost up $0.10 per burrito and explained that it was due to the cost of minimum wage going up on a flyer they posted on the counter.. BULLSHIT!!! your 5 employees working cost you an additional $0.75 per hour.. that's an extra $6.00 per 8 hour shift for all staff.. and you're raising your prices to the point that you'll probably make an extra $5-10 an hour or $40-80 per 8 hour shift.. this is just bullshit imo and pure greed.. and should not be allowed.. people need to be allowed to catch up not get pushed further behind..

LOL

I did get your point the first time around.

Apparently you missed mine.

You blame the American consumer for creating a need for and perpetuating the existence of Wal-Mart type establishments that sell cheap shit goods made overseas from exploited labor.

Wal-Mart has a fare share of entry level minimum wage workers.

You yuck it up about who is and who is not knowledgeable of employing entry level minimum wage workers here in this forum, in this topic.

The vibe I get from you is that Wal-Mart can't exist without labor exploitation, labor at dirt rock bottom wages, labor working in unsafe conditions, etc etc i.e. corners cut and shortcuts taken for the sake of maxizimized profits.

So, do you approve or disapprove of the Wal-Mart business model that Squealer approves of, who wants his goods kept at their low prices rather than be raised in correlation with a raise in minimum wage levels?

Because it sure sounds like you approve, but don't want to acknowledge Wal-Mart HQ itself is also responsible for Wal-Mart type establishments .......?

Just trying to feel out what your opinion is, since you didn't volunteer it.

I think that guy and signupdammit are really just trolling the thread at this point.

In signupdammit's post, that seems to be his new objective once he stopped making any money in adult was a mix of trolling and bawling about how he can't make any money. Oh wait, and also saying anyone and everyone claiming they are making money online is lying. I guess his position is that since he's failed, we all have failed to adapt and stay ahead of the curve.

:helpme

That, L-Pink .... and you seem to be the one the few people here willing to actually participate in a give and take of opinions in what is mostly a one sided discussion spawned by someone cutting bait and chumming the waters.

I've employed 100's of entry level workers in my life. The majority weren't worth minimum wage.

You have the old world apprentice system where some gave their time to learn a trade. You have college where you give money to learn a trade.

You also have minimum wage workers that show up ignorant of skills, not taking the job seriously, looking for something easier to do after the first hour, etc, etc. It's the rare instance you find one that is worth a shit. That person can eventually be elevated to a better position and more money. 95% can't.

In fact the constant turn over and training costs, having to OVERSTAFF because of no shows, late arrivals and those with a grandmother dying every week and needing time off raise your overhead for that category of labor far, far above their starting wages.

Anyone disagreeing has never had entry level workers and is just dreaming about the perfect world that is just around the corner if only the government would just ?..


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Correct on all accounts.

If you've built a business yourself, you're not in a hurry to give handouts to the lazy. Additionally, you realize many (not all) will do the minimum amount of work to collect a paycheck, hence are paid minimum wage. If you want to be paid more, learn a skill, trade craft, or put yourself in a position to be worth more to the employer. They will inturn pay you more to keep you.

Yes. I live in Florida and we haven't recently had a minimum wage increase here yet the food prices are constantly increasing. That is one thing about Capitalism. Prices aren't set exclusively according to cost rather they are set according to what the market will bear or in other words what people are willing to pay. Sometimes things like this only give some businesses a great excuse to take advantage of the situation. When you have roughly half the population who will believe it (for political reasons) that only helps. It reminds me of how AVS was marketed in the early days. The official line was that we had to charge in order to verify that the surfer was an adult. Of course that was 90% bullshit. We wanted the money. :)

Go into a busy fast food location during a meal rush. They are generally overstaffed in case 2-3 decided to take the day off. Some are grab-assing, trying to look cool, flirting with coworkers, etc. How much do those nit-wits cost the others that are working hard?

I gave my entry level workers health care after 60 days. A handful qualified every year because of the turnover rate. I'll never forget one guy we gave a hefty raise to, even paid for his families health care. He quit for a half dollar more somewhere else with no benefits and no overtime because "it paid more per hour". Idiot took home less per week and had no health benefits. Didn't give even a days notice or want to discuss his offer. Just quit. This is the mentality employers deal with.

One way to award good workers was guaranteed overtime. But facts are facts, few taking entry positions want, are capable of or even half try to better themselves. They just muddle along and quit, get fired, get caught stealing, fake injuries and rinse/repeat with another employer down the street.

A minimum wage worker that takes his job seriously, works hard, learns, wants to improve himself and his company is what every employer dreams about. When an employer finds one believe me he makes an effort to keep him. The rest, just more shoes to eventually refill.

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Then with all due respect what does that say about your job performance in employing them in the first place and your worth as an owner or manager?

People disparage these workers and say they aren't worth minimum wage but if that is the case why would they still remain employed? It makes little sense. And don't say there aren't enough workers. Real unemployment is at least double digits in most areas of the country.

No. Everyone who disagrees just doesn't agree with you. That's all it means. I don't think anyone is saying all entry level workers are good.

I'm also smart enough to have only skilled technicians, college graduates as salesmen and managers of the stores I owned.

Just how would you have me instill the attributes needed to be a valuable member of society into someone looking to start at ground level and be incapable of moving up? How would you have me make someone show up for work, and be on time if he did?

BTW, I started for the parent company in the lowest level grunt position after high school and worked up thru the company, running numerous locations to the point investors gave me money to open franchises of my own. I started as a minimum wage worker. I just didn't act like one. And soon I wasn't one. Pretty simple.


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