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Relentless 09-17-2013 11:13 AM
The picture of brock and his mom made perfect sense. They were outside their house waiting to kill Jessie, either walt gave them a pic of who to look for... or they took a pic while they were there. For someone like Jessie who doesn't much care about his own well-being but cares immensely about the lives of 'innocents' it's the perfect way to convince him to cook.

Hiding under the car also makes perfect sense. Walt is in Jessie's head... he tells Hank he thinks Walt is the devil, smarter and luckier than you etc... then when he FINALLY thinks they have Walt beat... the nazis show up and Walt is about to win again. Jessie isn't just hiding under his car, he is cowering in fear of Walt and people in fear don't make the best tactical decisions... they tend to do whatever is fastest (like getting under the car).

Nazis who run a nationwide prison syndicate capable of killing 10 inmates in different prisons within a 2 minute window are not a group of 5 or 6 guys capable of taking 70million and walking away. They likely have 100s or 1000s of mouths to feed including family of the incarcerated and a network of 'brothers' nationwide. VERY few people would ever walk away from 150+ million per year just because they found 70M once.

Giving Walt a barrel and letting him go was a very stupid move. Exactly the same kind of stupid move walt made by letting Jessie live so long. Exactly the same stupid move the Mexican Don made by letting Gus live. Exactly the same stupid move so many people in power make when they think they have succeeded. It's the GWB "mission accomplished" mindset that power and temporary success breed when they are allowed to become hubris and arrogance... and it usually bites the person in the ass. That is the entire point of Shelly's poem Ozymanidas. The king of kings always fails... and in this episode the nazis had their Ozymandias moment by letting Walt leave with a barrel of cash...

The pace of this episode was incredibly fast. They closed up so many loose ends and plot points... would jessie find out about jane's death, how would walt jr find out whats going on, what would happen to hank, etc etc.... each of those things could easily have been its own episode. By closing up so many plot points they reached their goal... leaving us with two more episodes and ZERO ability to predict what happens next. Nobody has more than a complete guess as to what might happen next. We are all in the dark now. :2 cents:

dyna mo 09-17-2013 11:23 AM
i didn't say the picture didn't make sense, i asked where they got it and how it got there, after thinking about it, the stakeout scene is the logical ASSUMPTION to that but again, no scene in the show that i recall answers the question specifically.

i know this is the porn business but i doubt anyone one of us here has experience with nazi prison gangs and wtf they'd do with 7 barrels of cash- arguably eponentially more cash than they have ever seen, let alone had. no one here would have guessed they'd give away 15% of it before they ever count it.


just because they had $70m dumped instantly in their laps, doesn't mean their payroll all the sudden jumped too.

Relentless 09-17-2013 11:23 AM
Quote:
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Ozymandias isn't Walt. Ozymandias is every arrogant person who thought they were the king of kings only to find out that their empire had fallen and their assumption of power was an illusion.

Don Eladio
Tucco
Gus Frang
Walt
Nazi Uncle Joe
Hank

Each of them had their time in the sun and thought it was permanent. Each let their arrogance and hubris dictate their actions. Feigned mercy which was actually based in a false feeling of security, talk of love or respect that was really all about their own ego, positions of power and titles like head of the DEA or the Heisenberg moniker itself... which were meant to impress others. It's all temporary, it all fades away and what is left is no more secure than millions of grains of sand. :2 cents:

Relentless 09-17-2013 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19803099)
i didn't say the picture didn't make sense, i asked where they got it and how it got there, after thinking about it, the stakeout scene is the logical ASSUMPTION to that but again, no scene in the show that i recall answers the question specifically. i know this is the porn business but i doubt anyone one of us here has experience with nazi prison gangs and wtf they'd do with 7 barrels of cash- arguably eponentially more cash than they have ever seen, let alone had. no one here would have guessed they'd give away 15% of it before they ever count it. just because they had $70m dumped instantly in their laps, doesn't mean their payroll all the sudden jumped too.
If you think 70M is a game changing amount of money to national prison syndicates, you misunderstand the magnitude of their influence and the economics of the drug trade. Giving away 1 of the barrels is very very unlikely, so is letting walt go... but it fits perfectly within the show's ethos and the Ozymandias theme specifically. It's exactly the same 'mistake' so many others have made from the Don, to Walt with Jessie and so on. Having a 'soft spot' for someone is a terrible idea for a crime lord... yet many seem to and it comes back to bite them. Look how many Gangsters get convicted by informants they trusted.

Relentless 09-17-2013 11:34 AM
Btw, in each case, the guy the king let live is the guy who kills the king on breaking bad.

Don Eladio killed by Gus after letting him live.
Gus killed by Hector Salamanka after letting him live.
Mike killed by Walt after letting him live.

Nazi Joe killed by Walt after letting him live?
Walt killed by Jessie after letting him live?

dyna mo 09-17-2013 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 19803110)
If you think 70M is a game changing amount of money to national prison syndicates, you misunderstand the magnitude of their influence and the economics of the drug trade. Giving away 1 of the barrels is very very unlikely, so is letting walt go... but it fits perfectly within the show's ethos and the Ozymandias theme specifically. It's exactly the same 'mistake' so many others have made from the Don, to Walt with Jessie and so on. Having a 'soft spot' for someone is a terrible idea for a crime lord... yet many seem to and it comes back to bite them. Look how many Gangsters get convicted by informants they trusted.
i didn't say it was game changing, and i no, i don't know how national prison syndicates handling their accounting. in fact, i don't even know that todd's uncle's crew is a nationally syndicated prison outfit.

i simply pointed out that getting right back to work after having $70m dumped in your lap is surprising to me, for anyone. lotto winner, etc. not to mention, they just recently took over the meth business, have issues with quality and certainly it's fair to say they are not raking in the dough. and i'm not alone in noticing that.

nevertheless, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment re: where this thread is/was going.

again, the show is ambigous, that is my point. athe show is open-ended often times, uses flash-backs and future scenes mixed together with scenes left out.

Relentless 09-17-2013 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19803162)
i didn't say it was game changing, and i no, i don't know how national prison syndicates handling their accounting. in fact, i don't even know that todd's uncle's crew is a nationally syndicated prison outfit.
They arranged to have 10 of Mike's guys killed in multiple prisons across the country within a 2 minute window. That would require a national syndicate with 100s or 1000s of members (and their families).

Quote:
i simply pointed out that getting right back to work after having $70m dumped in your lap is surprising to me, for anyone. lotto winner, etc. not to mention, they just recently took over the meth business, have issues with quality and certainly it's fair to say they are not raking in the dough. and i'm not alone in noticing that.
I think that's more a function of shallow character development. We know almost nothing about Todd's uncle 'away from work.' For all we know they went out and partied like rockstars... but we are only seeing them at work on screen.

Quote:
nevertheless, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment re: where this thread is/was going. again, the show is ambigous, that is my point. athe show is open-ended often times, uses flash-backs and future scenes mixed together with scenes left out.
Being less ambiguous would have required 100 more episodes. A whole one on Jr finding out about Walt, another entire episode showing just the shootout and aftermath with nothing else.... the sort of inner dialogue narration that works in books much better than on screen. Breaking bad on TV is like Game of Thrones on TV.... compared to the book it's a hollow shell of itself. I'd love to see a 30,000 page 5-8 book set for breaking bad with much more depth the way Martin has written for GoT... but we just haven't gotten that lucky ;)

dyna mo 09-17-2013 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 19803171)
They arranged to have 10 of Mike's guys killed in multiple prisons across the country within a 2 minute window. That would require a national syndicate with 100s or 1000s of members (and their families).



I think that's more a function of shallow character development. We know almost nothing about Todd's uncle 'away from work.' For all we know they went out and partied like rockstars... but we are only seeing them at work on screen.



Being less ambiguous would have required 100 more episodes. A whole one on Jr finding out about Walt, another entire episode showing just the shootout and aftermath with nothing else.... the sort of inner dialogue narration that works in books much better than on screen. Breaking bad on TV is like Game of Thrones on TV.... compared to the book it's a hollow shell of itself. I'd love to see a 30,000 page 5-8 book set for breaking bad with much more depth the way Martin has written for GoT... but we just haven't gotten that lucky ;)

i didn't get the idea that those 10 were necc spread out across the nation. i do know a bit about the aryan nation, that prison gang that the writers are emulating, it's nationwide but has no central authority, calling in an order via that network would not require everyonne in the aryan nation to be on that specific crew's payroll.


but yes, that's my point, the ambiguity of the uncle jack character allows for a variety of scenarios.

in fact, there's very little dev'ed to assume his crew is anything other than a murder for hire squad that just recently, and opportunistically fell into cooking meth:

Quote:
Already involved in murder-for-hire, both in and out of prison, the gang recently expanded into methamphetimine production and distribution, following Todd Alquist's work as a meth cook with Walter White.

The gang initially met White when he contracted them to arrange the murder of ten of Gus Fring's former employees in jail within a two-minute window. The murders went smoothly, and following White's retirement from the business, Todd became the primary cook, working with Lydia and Declan. Eventually, Declan fired Todd and the purity of the meth fell dramatically, much to Lydia's chagrin. After she was unable to convince Declan to re-hire Todd, Lydia, formed an alliance with the gang and orchestrated a hit on Declan and his men. The gang stole the remainder of Declan's methlyamine, as well as all of his operation's meth-making equipment, and reinstalled Todd as the primary cook.

Following the gang's expansion into meth production, they were hired by Walter White to murder Jesse Pinkman. After saving Walt from arrest by murdering Hank Schrader and Steven Gomez, Jack and his men steal almost all of Walt's money buried in the desert, and take Jesse prisoner to serve as their slave cook, working alongside Todd.

Members

Jack, gang leader
Kenny, second-in-command
Todd Alquist, the primary cook for the meth operation.
Frankie, white supermacist gang member
Lester, white supermacist gang member
Matt, white supermacist gang member

Partners
Lydia Rodarte-Quayle, manager of the distribution of the meth overseas to the Czech Republic
Walter White, contracted ten murders in jail to be committed by the gang, and made a deal for them to murder Jesse.
Jesse Pinkman, slave cook, taken prisoner to help Todd improve the purity of the gang's meth cooking.

Gang's Victims
Gus's ten former employees (Murdered within a two minute window across multiple prisons, orchestrated by Walt with help of Todd's uncle Jack and the Aryan Brotherhood):
Dan Wachsberger
Ron Forenall
Dennis Markowski
Jack McGann
Andrew Holt
Anthony Perez
Isaac Conley
William Moniz
Harris Boivin
Raymond Martinez
Declan's nine employees (Murdered by the Aryan Brotherhood on the orders of Lydia)
Declan (Shot in the head by Jack)
Steven Gomez (Murdered by the Aryan Brotherhood)
Hank Schrader (Shot in the head by Jack)

i understand being less ambigous would require more shows. my point is the show embraces that ambiguity and uses it as a cinematic tool.

Juicy D. Links 09-17-2013 02:09 PM
hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii

kane 09-17-2013 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhutocracy (Post 19802560)
A. I don't really turn on my TV unless I have acquired something specifically to watch and B. It's the context. I wouldn't be tearing it apart if it didn't stand in stark relief with the rest of the series. It's coming to expect a high bar which then isn't met. Like going to your favorite resturant expecting confit duck in a sticky cherry sauce with a smear of parsnip and thyme puree and side of duck baklava and being served up a lukewarm grilled sandwich. If all they ever did was serve grilled sandwiches I wouldn't complain that much, I probably wouldn't ever go there in the first place, but I wouldn't be expecting much more if I did. BB is/was easily a top 5 TV show of all time, up with the usual suspects like The Wire , Sopranos, Mad Men etc etc. But these last episodes are threatening that status with shitty writing. Currently I'm watching Boardwalk Empire and BB, Treme will start soon and that should continue to be decent. In a lower tier of shows that I keep up with but don't rate highly - Dexter, Trueblood, Walking Dead and Homeland. However with those shows I know I'm just getting a grilled sandwich.. and with Trueblood it's basically a hollow brain dead sandwich. I don't expect that much from them so I'm not disappointed. Walking Dead in particular is cursed with the kind of bad writing I'm talking about. Characters that do one thing one episode and do a complete irrational U turn the next.. Where zombies teleport right behind people, where a bad guy can chase someone and magically find them like they are a homing needle in a haystack, where one guy can kill 30 zombies but another guy can't fight off 1, where people randomly decide not to kill people they really, really should. It took them 2 entire seasons of fighting zombies with guns that drew in more zombies before they realised maybe, just maybe silencers were a good idea. I literally thanked the TV screen the first scene they used one and said a silent thank you to the writer for having half a brain. I probably would have given up after season two if the writing didn't IMMEDIATELY get better in season 3 after some writers were laid off and new smarter people came on. It's still pretty lame but watchable.
Anyways because BB has proven to be so epically great in the past, when it is just average with the kind of writing you expect in far shittier shows it REALLY STANDS OUT.. like a turd in caviar. Having your suspension of disbelief splattered all over the floor from bad writing really does ruin it.. I don't want to be thinking about the writers.. I want to be engrossed in the characters, which means they have to behave in vaguely realistic ways. You'll notice I never said the characters SHOULDN'T be on the arcs they're on, just that they needed better writing and/or more time to make these actions believable and not seemingly entirely arbitrary. I'm more like a tiger mom than a hater. I only want the best out of the show and don't feel I need to uncritically praise it no matter what just because it's generally better than whatever other stupid shit is on TV.

Fair enough.

I too consider the show to be among the best shows ever along with Sopranos, The Wire etc.

I look at it like this. Walt is not some hardened criminal mastermind who has spent the last 20 years building a criminal empire. He is a high school chemistry teacher who got cancer and decided to take a risk in order to get money for his family before he dies. They showed how inept he was at things when he started in the opening of this last episode as he practiced how he was going to lie to Skylar.

He got himself pulled into it further than he likely ever expected. I remember early in the show his goal was to make something like $700K. There were setbacks and bumps in the road and he grew out of need and kind of made things up as he went along.

So when he suddenly does something out of character I forgive that. The same with many of the other characters. They are all living in uncharted waters and now it is all crashing down on them. People are strange. I know people in my everyday life who occasionally do things that are out of character for them. Here they are used as plot devices, but I can overlook that. If everyone acted exactly as they have throughout the show could go on for another 10 years with it just being one long stalemate. Somebody has to break for the walls to crumble.

The reality was upon Walt that the end was here. The gig was up. Once he knew that Hank knew the truth it was over. Hank wasn't just going to look the other way and Hank wasn't a guy he could just kill and be done with. At best Hank never gets enough on him to arrest him and his family is forever fractured by this. At worst Hank puts him in jail and his family is forever fractured by this. Hank, in reality, was a bigger threat to him than anyone else. That put immense pressure on him because for the first time Walt wasn't 100% sure how to deal with a problem.

When the empire crumbles around you and the pressure comes crashing in on you as you try to juggle all the lies and deceit you have built up, people do strange things. Nero fiddled, Hector stood tall and defiant, Hitler killed himself and Walter White crumbled, begged for the life of his brother in law and was willing to trade what he had worked, killed, lied and stole to accumulate to do so. I'm fine with that.

Relentless 09-17-2013 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19803209)
I understand being less ambigous would require more shows. my point is the show embraces that ambiguity and uses it as a cinematic tool.
We agree

Paul 09-17-2013 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19802554)
y'all didnt nitpick the obvious big plot hole

nazis get $70 mil so the next thing they do is start cooking again.
Was thinking the same thing myself! :thumbsup

All the Nazis had to do was kill Walt & Jesse, bury the bodies along with Hank & Gomez in the desert and they are set for life with their $80 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 19802452)
I'm just curious. For those who are tearing this episode apart, what else do you watch? If you consider this episode crap, can you even turn on your TV without your head exploding?
The reason why we're all picking it apart is because this show has been 10/10 quality up until the last few episodes and all the fans have such high expectations.

One of the things that made this show so great was the original and believable plots, the way the characters and story was so well written.

It was a joy to watch because you didn't question the characters actions because it was all so plausible, this show was on another level to most other TV shows!

Paul 09-17-2013 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhutocracy (Post 19802560)
A. I don't really turn on my TV unless I have acquired something specifically to watch and B. It's the context. I wouldn't be tearing it apart if it didn't stand in stark relief with the rest of the series. It's coming to expect a high bar which then isn't met. Like going to your favorite resturant expecting confit duck in a sticky cherry sauce with a smear of parsnip and thyme puree and side of duck baklava and being served up a lukewarm grilled sandwich. If all they ever did was serve grilled sandwiches I wouldn't complain that much, I probably wouldn't ever go there in the first place, but I wouldn't be expecting much more if I did. BB is/was easily a top 5 TV show of all time, up with the usual suspects like The Wire , Sopranos, Mad Men etc etc. But these last episodes are threatening that status with shitty writing. Currently I'm watching Boardwalk Empire and BB, Treme will start soon and that should continue to be decent.
Great analogy! :thumbsup

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhutocracy (Post 19802560)
Anyways because BB has proven to be so epically great in the past, when it is just average with the kind of writing you expect in far shittier shows it REALLY STANDS OUT.. like a turd in caviar. Having your suspension of disbelief splattered all over the floor from bad writing really does ruin it.. I don't want to be thinking about the writers.. I want to be engrossed in the characters, which means they have to behave in vaguely realistic ways. You'll notice I never said the characters SHOULDN'T be on the arcs they're on, just that they needed better writing and/or more time to make these actions believable and not seemingly entirely arbitrary. I'm more like a tiger mom than a hater. I only want the best out of the show and don't feel I need to uncritically praise it no matter what just because it's generally better than whatever other stupid shit is on TV.
Word! :2 cents:

mineistaken 09-17-2013 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19802685)
$70 million dollars in cash and it's get back to work cooking shitty meth time? for a bunch of knucklehead nazis. not really. look to any mob movie/heist/caper film for what the bad guys do when they get a shitton of cash money dropped in their laps.
.
Not shitty meth, since they have pinkman, who can cook close to Walt's quality, at least better than Tod's quality. Plus they have contracts and they need to deliver certain amount.
On top of that - gangs do not go out of business just because they scored big time. One individual may, but gang as a whole does not stop activities.
All that considered, I have to disagree that its a plot hole.

Socks 09-17-2013 03:53 PM
Is this the final season?

kane 09-17-2013 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 19803413)
Was thinking the same thing myself! :thumbsup

All the Nazis had to do was kill Walt & Jesse, bury the bodies along with Hank & Gomez in the desert and they are set for life with their $80 million.
But they are still beholden to cook meth for Lydia and her people. She likely won't just let them walk away.



Quote:
The reason why we're all picking it apart is because this show has been 10/10 quality up until the last few episodes and all the fans have such high expectations.

One of the things that made this show so great was the original and believable plots, the way the characters and story was so well written.

It was a joy to watch because you didn't question the characters actions because it was all so plausible, this show was on another level to most other TV shows!
I understand people love the show and put it on a pedestal. I do it myself.

I just have this feeling if you went back and looked at the series as a whole and went over every aspect of it with a microscope like people are doing with these last few episodes you would find plenty of flaws.

I have a feeling that people love the show so much it hurts them to see it go and by dissecting it and finding every little flaw they are helping themselves cope with it. Breaking Bad is the hot girlfriend that you know is about to break up with you so you find flaws with her to make the break up a little easier.

adendreams 09-17-2013 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 19803463)
Breaking Bad is the hot girlfriend that you know is about to break up with you so you find flaws with her to make the break up a little easier.
No it's not. Breaking Bad is the hot girlfriend who is about to leave for college so she starts acting all crazy and irrational till 2 weeks before she leaves and you'll be glad to see the bitch go.

Loved her like hell but see ya.

Relentless 09-17-2013 04:08 PM
Breaking bad is hotter than either of those metaphorical girls.

adendreams 09-17-2013 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 19803477)
Breaking bad is hotter than either of those metaphorical girls.
what say you to my earlier:

"When Skylar gets confronted by her sister - and with only heresay, no evidence that it isnt a trick - she breaks down and tells Flynn everything - that was a writers train wreck...it was like slow motion... i was just thinking this cant be real - can a writer fuck up that bad and the scene makes final cut??? unreal error for such a great show."

The real Skylar would immediately have been skeptical and demanded proof - some evidence that Walt was in custody...This stepford Skylar just cracks and blubbers on command? huh?

Zuzana Designs 09-17-2013 04:12 PM
Breaking Bad > all other shows. Wish it was Sunday. Can't wait to take a vacation and rewatch the series.

Paul 09-17-2013 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 19803463)
But they are still beholden to cook meth for Lydia and her people. She likely won't just let them walk away.
She'd be easy to kill, she's just a business women that doesn't like getting involved in the nasty side of the business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kane (Post 19803463)
I understand people love the show and put it on a pedestal. I do it myself.

I just have this feeling if you went back and looked at the series as a whole and went over every aspect of it with a microscope like people are doing with these last few episodes you would find plenty of flaws.

I have a feeling that people love the show so much it hurts them to see it go and by dissecting it and finding every little flaw they are helping themselves cope with it. Breaking Bad is the hot girlfriend that you know is about to break up with you so you find flaws with her to make the break up a little easier.
As I mentioned in the thread for the last episode, I think Breaking Bad needed season 5 split into two seasons with 4 or 5 extra episodes in each season but I can appreciate why they are packing so much into the final few episodes. It wouldn't be possible to show how quickly everything has unravelled for Walt without these fast paced episodes.

I'm really looking forward to the last 2 episodes :pimp

kane 09-17-2013 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adendreams (Post 19803481)
what say you to my earlier:

"When Skylar gets confronted by her sister - and with only heresay, no evidence that it isnt a trick - she breaks down and tells Flynn everything - that was a writers train wreck...it was like slow motion... i was just thinking this cant be real - can a writer fuck up that bad and the scene makes final cut??? unreal error for such a great show."

The real Skylar would immediately have been skeptical and demanded proof - some evidence that Walt was in custody...This stepford Skylar just cracks and blubbers on command? huh?
I have always maintained that ever since the episode where Walt and Skylar fight in the bedroom and she tells him that she will survive whatever he throws at her and do whatever it takes to keep her kids safe until the cancer comes back and kills him that she has been wanting to talk and was just afraid.

In most cases it seems like her first reaction is to do the right thing then she gets turned around. At times she is cold and calculating, but she has her safety and the safety of the kids first and foremost in her mind. I can see how she had reached the end of her rope. Her sister tells her Walt has been taken into custody by Hank, she can't reach him, Hank can't be reached and she has her kids with her maybe she just finally cracks. She is just done with the games and finally wants to surrender. With Marie at her side she sees a way out of this where she and the kids can be safe and way from Walt.

To me it just wasn't that far fetched. Marie threw her a life vest and she decided to put it on.

kane 09-17-2013 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 19803490)
She'd be easy to kill, she's just a business women that doesn't like getting involved in the nasty side of the business.
She is involved with people who are a lot bigger and more powerful that that group of neo-nazis. They could kill her, but those other people will still want their meth. There is always a bigger fish up the food chain. Once you are in it is hard to just walk away.

Quote:
As I mentioned in the thread for the last episode, I think Breaking Bad needed season 5 split into two seasons with 4 or 5 extra episodes in each season but I can appreciate why they are packing so much into the final few episodes. It wouldn't be possible to show how quickly everything has unravelled for Walt without these fast paced episodes.

I'm really looking forward to the last 2 episodes :pimp
I agree. The show could go on for another 50 episodes as we disect every detail and play out every little subplot to its final endgame while fully explaining every reason why someone did what they did. That isn't going to happen. They are ending it and they need to push things along in order to wrap it up.

I can't wait to see how it all turns out. Breaking Bad at its worst is better than anything else out there right now.

Relentless 09-17-2013 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adendreams (Post 19803481)
what say you to my earlier: "When Skylar gets confronted by her sister - and with only heresay, no evidence that it isnt a trick - she breaks down and tells Flynn everything - that was a writers train wreck...it was like slow motion... i was just thinking this cant be real - can a writer fuck up that bad and the scene makes final cut??? unreal error for such a great show." The real Skylar would immediately have been skeptical and demanded proof - some evidence that Walt was in custody...This stepford Skylar just cracks and blubbers on command? huh?

I'd like to have seen 10 more episodes and they clearly had deep enough plot to fill them. That sort of move for expediency was similar to having Huel roll over so quickly. It should have been a longer more detailed scene but was truncated to make room.

Relentless 09-17-2013 07:40 PM
For those who dislike the way the show is going or the way this episode went...

http://grrm.livejournal.com/337511.html

George RR Martin disagrees with you.

AmeliaG 09-18-2013 12:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 19803661)
For those who dislike the way the show is going or the way this episode went...

http://grrm.livejournal.com/337511.html

George RR Martin disagrees with you.
GRRM knows that a lot of people are surly about the Red Wedding scene and that will be tough for awards, so he is doing the smart thing and pointing out that other quality shows also have appalling stuff happen.

If he actually thinks that say Ramsay Snow is a better person than Walter White, we'll have to agree to disagree. Let's not have any Game of Thrones spoilers in this thread though, as there is no warning about that in the title.

seeandsee 09-18-2013 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless (Post 19803117)
Walt killed by Jessie after letting him live?
Maybe if he let him alive at next episode, in last he asked for his head :pimp

notauniquename 09-18-2013 08:47 AM
I only read the first page of this thread so forgive me if someone has already said it.

And I know Walter can't die with two episodes to go but I think the story line they created is a little far fetched in that.

If this was real and the Nazis followed a realistic line they would have also killed WW right after scooping up the 80 mil. They know he has strong ties to the DEA guys they just killed. They know the Police will be questioning him at least. What purpose does WW serve to them now? Especially after they know WW didnt want Hank to die and he may want to seek revenge. I was just thinking after getting the money, why aren't they popping him too?

dyna mo 09-18-2013 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by notauniquename (Post 19804244)
I only read the first page of this thread so forgive me if someone has already said it.

And I know Walter can't die with two episodes to go but I think the story line they created is a little far fetched in that.

If this was real and the Nazis followed a realistic line they would have also killed WW right after scooping up the 80 mil. They know he has strong ties to the DEA guys they just killed. They know the Police will be questioning him at least. What purpose does WW serve to them now? Especially after they know WW didnt want Hank to die and he may want to seek revenge. I was just thinking after getting the money, why aren't they popping him too?
obviously they are shrewd & savvy murder for hire nazis with a sense of fairness and solid work ethic. nazis gangs stick to that code, even when $70m falls in their laps.

:)

flashfire 09-18-2013 11:20 AM
crazy that in 2 episodes its all over

MrBottomTooth 09-18-2013 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adendreams (Post 19803481)
what say you to my earlier:

"When Skylar gets confronted by her sister - and with only heresay, no evidence that it isnt a trick - she breaks down and tells Flynn everything - that was a writers train wreck...it was like slow motion... i was just thinking this cant be real - can a writer fuck up that bad and the scene makes final cut??? unreal error for such a great show."

The real Skylar would immediately have been skeptical and demanded proof - some evidence that Walt was in custody...This stepford Skylar just cracks and blubbers on command? huh?
She was on the phone trying to get a hold of Walt all day. You could tell she knew something was wrong because Walt was not getting back to her. Just as she gets off the phone with his voice mail again (you could tell she had been calling multiple times because of the message she left and the distress on her face) she turns around to see her sister in their car wash with a smug look on her face, someone they had been avoiding for quite some time.

Sometimes you just get those feelings, and add to that the fact Walt has not returned her phone calls all day I'm sure she knew what was going on at that point once the sister showed up out of the blue at the same time Walt had apparently vanished for the day.

JockoHomo 09-18-2013 11:38 AM
Yep, leave a witness to the murder of 2 federal DEA agents alive AND then give him 11 million dollars on top of that.

Totally unreal.

bronco67 09-18-2013 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19804254)
obviously they are shrewd & savvy murder for hire nazis with a sense of fairness and solid work ethic. nazis gangs stick to that code, even when $70m falls in their laps.

:)
I was thinking the same thing. Not all bad guys are so black and white. This Jack guy has shades of grey.

He's a monster, but I'll bet any of us could sit down and have a chat with him and he'd appear to be perfectly nice fellow, as long as you didn't know his line of work. The actor portraying him is doing a good job of making him seem like an every-man.

I always thought the best bad guys are ones who would kill you in an instant, but they'd also help an old lady cross the street.

dyna mo 09-18-2013 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco67 (Post 19804528)
I was thinking the same thing. Not all bad guys are so black and white. This Jack guy has shades of grey.

He's a monster, but I'll bet any of us could sit down and have a chat with him and he'd appear to be perfectly nice fellow, as long as you didn't know his line of work. The actor portraying him is doing a good job of making him seem like an every-man.

I always thought the best bad guys are ones who would kill you in an instant, but they'd also help an old lady cross the street.
his character is as morally ambigous as the other key characters at this point. i mean hell, they had jesse doing rails in the car, while we sympathize with him. we have ww do baby talk with holly after he kidnaps her and flips out on skyler, which could be a whole nother topic.

i like the uncle jack character. while i was concerned a bit that the show would end with him being ww's ultimate and final adversary (and i would have a big big problem with that ending), he's actually proving to be just as questionable as the rest of the cast, you really never know with any of them what they will do or say next.

it's easy for any of us to say that this character should have done that or said this, but if we know anything about the show by now, it's that we have no idea what the characters are going to say or do next.

:1orglaugh

JockoHomo 09-18-2013 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19804546)

it's easy for any of us to say that this character should have done that or said this, but if we know anything about the show by now, it's that we have no idea what the characters are going to say or do next.

:1orglaugh
Yes, they do like to keep the viewer in suspense and give us surprises now and then they still have to operate within the boundaries of reality as this is not science fiction. There are certain behaviors that are logical and therefore, predictable.

Short of a character having a mental breakdown or a schizophrenic episode and therefore acting irrationally or hearing voices their actions should be within a certain range of possibilities.

When they go out of those ranges it become absurd and therefore unbelievable.

:2 cents:

dyna mo 09-18-2013 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JockoHomo (Post 19804583)
Yes, they do like to keep the viewer in suspense and give us surprises now and then they still have to operate within the boundaries of reality as this is not science fiction. There are certain behaviors that are logical and therefore, predictable.

Short of a character having a mental breakdown or a schizophrenic episode and therefore acting irrationally or hearing voices their actions should be within a certain range of possibilities.

When they go out of those ranges it become absurd and therefore unbelievable.

:2 cents:
i've always thought absurd it the proper word to describe this show! :1orglaugh in fact, the premise was so absurd to me, i refused to watch that first season when it initially aired.

i mean honestly, a tele show about a chem teach turned meth guy? pfft.......

:1orglaugh

Sarah_Jayne 09-18-2013 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19804659)
i've always thought absurd it the proper word to describe this show! :1orglaugh in fact, the premise was so absurd to me, i refused to watch that first season when it initially aired.

i mean honestly, a tele show about a chem teach turned meth guy? pfft.......

:1orglaugh
My mother - the retired science teacher - is the one that recommended the show to me. Occasionally, that has made me wonder.

dyna mo 09-18-2013 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah_Jayne (Post 19804685)
My mother - the retired science teacher - is the one that recommended the show to me. Occasionally, that has made me wonder.
hah, what does she have to say about it all?

Juicy D. Links 09-18-2013 02:54 PM
anyone else in this thread naked?

Jel 09-18-2013 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah_Jayne (Post 19804685)
My mother - the retired science teacher - is the one that recommended the show to me. Occasionally, that has made me wonder.
:1orglaugh :thumbsup

Sarah_Jayne 09-18-2013 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 19804710)
hah, what does she have to say about it all?
She's been strangely silent about this season. If I see barrels the next time I visit, I'm asking for a loan.

dyna mo 09-18-2013 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah_Jayne (Post 19804894)
She's been strangely silent about this season. If I see barrels the next time I visit, I'm asking for a loan.
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

i'd just grab a barrel, no biggie, seems like giving away 1 barrel of cash is no problemo!

Far-L 09-19-2013 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG (Post 19801808)
Some out-of-character behavior:

(1) Hank is totally cool under fire. Even though the rest of the show he has been Captain Panic Attack.

(2) Flynn refuses to listen to a word his father says and sees his mother pull a knife, but is suddenly so totally her tool that he lies about it to the police and maybe himself. Even though the rest of the show, he has loved both his parents and always wanted to hear all sides of the story, and been attuned to dishonesty.

(3) Skyler totally caves to Marie’s humiliating demands immediately. Even though the rest of the show, she has resisted her sister’s attempts to dominate her and always wanted to know everything going on before she acted.

(4) Walt is on tilt and doing stupid things non-stop, from buying Jesse’s burning the money tale to telling a large group of armed killers that he has $80 million dollars buried near by. Even though the rest of the show, Walt’s character has been suspicious, secretive, and brilliant, yet somehow Walt puts all his remaining cash in 7 barrels in the same place. And blabs about it.

(5) But, wait for it, the white power murder meth crew are totally reasonable, so Walt still has $11 million.

(6) And Holly can talk now and ask for her mother.

And on and on. Pretty much the only characters who are behaving in character are Todd and Marie. Todd is still a rational, hard-working, can-do kind of sociopath and Marie is still a competitive jerk who uses every situation as a way to get one up on those theoretically closest to her.

Not only is the story failing on a story level, but there are long dull stretches where we get to watch something literally as boring as watching a middle-aged guy roll a heavy barrel across a desert in real time.
Politely disagree...

1. Hank under the most stressful conditions, i,e. life or death, is very calm - the opposite of his self in a sense, and that was demonstrated previously in the shoot out he was in. That sort of calm under duress is not unusual. Think of him like a soldier that has to be close to the action because he thrives on that - the "peace and calm" of his day to day job and life is what stresses him out and he doesn't feel "normal" unless he is back at the center of danger. This has been well depicted throughout the series imo.

2. Junior just was told his dad was a meth dealing killer. He is completely confused. He even stays out on the edge of the fight, helpless and immobile, until he sees Walt getting the upper hand and about to kill his mom, then and only then did he jump in, forced to take a side, and in defense of his mother's life. Only that level of extreme showed him "the truth" necessary to act and take a side.

3. Skyler doesn't cave until she thinks Walt is busted and headed for jail. At that point, it is over for her and she has to do whatever she can because at that point obviously she can't hide or make any excuses - in her mind an inevitable truth is about to become known to her son. She is not "caving" so much as she is "saving" which is true to her character 100%.

4. One of Walt's greatest tricks is always making people think they have beaten him. Enough said. I would agree about burying everything in one place but he had to memorize those coordinates, doing that for six spots would be tough unless he had special mnemonic skills.

5. The Nazi had the foresight to realize that they needed Walt still. Much easier to keep him on the payroll if he doesn't take everything. And Walt did pretty much give it away just moments before.

6.. Kid is well over a year old, that is not unusual since "ma" is a first word for kids in many different languages.

The barrel rolling actually was sort of funny Sisyphean motif and metaphor and I thought it played well. The "boulder" of his cash had rolled back down the hill and he was rolling it back up in a sense.

Anyway, that is my opinion on the matter...:winkwink:

dyna mo 09-19-2013 09:25 AM
I'm going to miss these threads! it's a rare thing when a tele show can provoke peeps enough to want, & need even, to discuss it at thise level.

aaaaaaaargh!

Juicy D. Links 09-22-2013 07:29 PM
Tonights episode BUUMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

Zuzana Designs 09-22-2013 08:10 PM
What a great show. One left!

Juicy D. Links 09-23-2013 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuzana Designs (Post 19809120)
What a great show. One left!

one more baby !!!!!!!!!!

Phoenix 09-23-2013 04:15 AM
they are saving everything for the last episode..i cant wait

Paul 09-23-2013 05:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix (Post 19809321)
they are saving everything for the last episode..i cant wait
:thumbsup

For those who don't know what they are gonna watch once Breaking Bad ends, they are creating a spin off Better Call Saul

It's not going to be the same type of show but it could be good :)

mineistaken 09-23-2013 08:22 AM
So Todd cooked 92% purity and they agreed that it was Heisenberg's quality. However I remember when Gale analyzed Walter's product it was 99% purity.
What am I missing here?


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