Tony, I'm not talking about regulation of business either.

Gary Johnson isn't against the kind of gov. regs that you are talking about either.
But he does believe that govt. gets involved in things it should not be involved in.

And no, a "big reason for the crash" was not the deregulation of Wall St.
Stocks and bonds had nothing to do with it.

It was THE HOUSING MARKET crashing. Had nothing to do with Bush's dumb ass. It was Congress over the decades.

Doesn't it seem fucked up to you that we are discussing whether or not a bunch of bureaucrats are giving us too much freedom to do things?
Oh...they didn't "regulate" us enough.
It's kind of fucked up when you think about it.

Not saying that some oversight isn't needed...but it is kind of fucked up to think that we are at a point in society where we feel we are just too damn stupid to do things without the govt. telling us how to do it.

Greenspans words and it did happen because of wall st, mortgages were packaged as securities with bullshit ratings.
"But on Thursday, almost three years after stepping down as chairman of the Federal Reserve, a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending.

Those of us who have looked to the self-interest of lending institutions to protect shareholders’ equity, myself included, are in a state of shocked disbelief,” he told the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/bu...y/24panel.html
I will take another look at Johnsons platform, I sat out the last election it bothered me but there was no one worth voting for.

I was referring to what Wall Street does as far as the Stock Market is concerned. Not what banks did in buying and selling mortgages.

As for what Greenspan says...it doesn't really interest me that much.
As the head of the Federal Reserve he shouldn't ever have been in a "state of disbelief"

If he was, then that is incompetence on his part.

And he had no power over what Congress did for their cronies with the laws and regs of banks anyway.
It was the Housing Market crashing...and the big part of that is because lifetime/career politicians are for sale every day in Washington D.C.

You can't buy a vote that isn't for sale to begin with. :(

That's why I think the Republicans and Democrats need to have their monopoly on power ended.

We just keep voting them in over and over and over and expecting something different will happen. :(

pancho via :2 cents:

Attack on New Mexico[edit]





Ruins of Columbus, New Mexico after being raided by Pancho Villa
On 9 March 1916, General Villa ordered nearly 100 Mexican members of his revolutionary group to make a cross-border attack against Columbus, New Mexico. While some believed the raid was conducted because of the U.S. government's official recognition of the Carranza regime and for the loss of lives in battle due to defective bullets purchased from the United States,[25] it was accepted from a military standpoint that Villa carried out the raid because he needed more military equipment and supplies in order to continue his fight against Carranza.[25] They attacked a detachment of the 13th Cavalry Regiment (United States), burned the town[3] and seized 100 horses and mules and other military supplies.[3] Eighteen Americans and about 80 Villistas were killed.[26][27] There are other attacks in US territory that have been said to be done by Villa, however, none of these attacks were ever confirmed to be performed by Villistas. These unconfirmed attacks are:[28]
1) On 15 May, it is claimed that they attacked Glenn Springs, Texas, killing a civilian and wounding three American soldiers. Two Mexicans were estimated killed.
2) on 15 June, bandits killed four soldiers at San Ygnacio, Texas and wounded 5 soldiers; 6 Mexcians killed.
3) on 31 July, one American soldier and a U.S. customs inspector were killed at Fort Hancock Texas.[29] One American was wounded and three Mexicans were reported killed, plus three Mexicans captured by Mexican government troops. {The two dead Americans included a soldier from the 8th US Cavalry and Customs Inspector Robert Wood}.[30]

Whoa...you're right I missed that one!

We better spend a few more trillion dollars to make sure that 100 Mexicans don't ever "invade" us again.

Hell, we've spent that much just "defending" ourselves against a dozen already dead "terrorists" with box cutters. :(

thx for the link, i read this.

honest question/observation-

according to that wiki, john locke is the the modern day father of libertarianism:

John Locke greatly influenced both libertarianism and the modern world in his writings published before and after the English Revolution of 1688, especially A Letter Concerning Toleration (1667), Two Treatises of Government (1689) and An Essay Concerning Human Understanding (1690).
In the latter he established the basis of liberal political theory: that people's rights existed before government; that the purpose of government is to protect personal and property rights; that people may dissolve governments that do not do so; and that representative government is the best form to protect rights.[70]

then the article continues:

The United States Declaration of Independence was inspired by Locke in its statement: "to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it?"[71]


elsewhere, googling top 5 examples of libertarianism, i come up with articles that claim the usa is a top example of it.
http://libertarianmoney.wordpress.co...arian-country/

wouldn't this suggest that libertarianism doesn't work?

I lean libertarian, but wouldn't consider myself a hardcore libertarian. Some of the more hardliners have some pretty crazy ideas. Personally I am for fiscal responsibility, cutting government spending and spending money wisely. On the social front I think people should be allowed to do pretty much whatever they want so long as they aren't hurting others.

I have no idea about any of it... no real interest in politics... busy just trying to feed the kids etc..

Take a test and find out for yourself:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

Im shocked im a social libertarian lol

Ron Paul was the fairy Godfather whom claimed he was a Libertarian non stop.. Yet voted and ran for president as a Republican. His nut job son Rand Paul ditched the Libertarian tag soon as daddy didn't get anywhere and jumped on the crazy train.. other wise known as the tea party.

You're right.. there are no more libertarians because everyone realized it was a fairytale.

:1orglaugh

http://www.politicalcompass.org/face...0.88&soc=-1.08

http://www.politicalcompass.org/imag...swithnames.gif

http://www.politicalcompass.org/char...1.1<div style=

There is nothing at all wrong with fiscal responsibility.. Hence the reason I said before that if there were any "serious" Libertarians they would be better off to try to kick start the fiscal republican movement while the GOP is busy removing it's head from it's ass.

However the politicians we typically see that are self proclaimed Libertarians, are always crazy like Ron Paul and are about as extreme right in their agenda as the Tea Party is. Hence the reason they are all in the Tea Party now. :1orglaugh

Crockett, that is just fucking ignorant.

Ron Paul never claimed he was "a Libertarian non stop"
YOU just did that.

He is a Republican.

And you are showing how ignorant you are by posting. Please just walk away. Educate yourself and then come back.

I've already posted what Libertarians think. You are just posting your ignorant opinion based on absolutely nothing.

As for Ron Paul...yeah, I think he was the best candidate who did run for Pres. amongst the Republicans.
But his views on abortion and other things make him a Republican (which is exactly what he is).

All the dumb comments you are making just (as usual) show that you are totally and completely brainwashed by the Democrat party.

I used to be too. But then after watching them make promises that never come to pass...I realized that they are just bureaucrats and politicians.

One day you will smarten up too. It just takes time to gain the wisdom.

There are NO Libertarians in the Tea Party dumbass. A Libertarian is in the Libertarian Party like I am.

And Ron Paul is not a Libertarian. He is a Republican.

And now you claim that Libertarians are "extreme right"?
WTF???

Libertarians are more liberal than you or any Democrat will EVER be.

Jesus Christ man...stop embarrassing yourself with your complete ignorance of what a Libertarian is.

The Japanese invaded Alaska in June 1942.

Uhmm...Alaska became a state in 1959 bro :)

So basically Nordic socialism.

Yeah those are the good bits, which is why many countries of all political persuasions have these things without all the dumb libertarian shit like no public schooling, no social security, the right to discriminate, less safety and financial regulation with the base naive belief in the goodness of people to make the ideology even slightly workable and a misunderstanding of market forces.

A little libertarianism isn't a bad thing but it's really where you draw the line and what the outcomes of where you draw it are. Full blown libertarianism is every bit as fucking stupid as full blown communism but I can certainly see some places where less regulation would help but there are certainly others that need more. Hell you guys can't even use CFDs but some microcaps don't have to even submit financials, both stupid decisions (although the lack of financials on microcaps is worse for the market and more regulations would help, whereas less regulation allowing CFDs as an economic freedom isn't as economically beneficial).

Heh, I'm three times more libertarian and a bit to the left.
The more interesting thing would be showing all the fox watching idiots screaming about Obama being a socialist where he fits on that scale - firmly right wing, which is correct given he's basically a 70's republican.

In 1942 Alaska was, in fact, a United States Territory. It was purchased by the U.S. from Russia in March of 1867 (see Seward's Folly). Alaska also had a United States military presence in situ since the late 1860s as well as a governor appointed by the President of the United States starting in the 1880s.

Hell, you just basically described a big chunk of the world! (Japan, Germany, South Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan) :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

It is kind of weird to watch people argue AGAINST freedom though.

This is definitely a strange time for our society and culture. We actually LIKE being told what to do, when to do it. Having our fellow citizens imprisoned. Giving cops more authority to do any damn thing they want. And of course being under surveillance, searched, and watched constantly for our protection.
All to help defend our "freedom"

I suppose that eventually the pendulum will swing back the other way. I just hope it's in my lifetime.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-H-t-Wz1VN...ything_100.jpg

:stoned

ADG

one of the best examples in history of libertarianism is the usa. but the libertarians want to get rid of that fucked-up system in favor of a libertarian system.

yeah with like 2 planes I think..... but was Alaska a state back then?

I think Obama is a socialist and a complete piece if shit :2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh :1orglaugh:....






.

Relax Robbie. He is blinded by party politics and what he is spoon fed by the political establishment that are terrified of libertarianism. Look at what happens to the elites if people actually start to hear the message of more freedom and less government? It would destroy the source of all the power and wealth and control enjoyed by the political class of the two parties and hand it all back to the individual. They can't have that, so they put out whatever they can to obscure and delegitimize the libertarian message. The vast majority of people are SO hoodwinked by the two party system that they swallow it, hook, line and sinker.





.:2 cents:

It was actually a pretty bloody battle and wasn't technically Alaska, but two Islands. The Japanese lost around 2000 men and the US lost around a thousand. It wasn't just a couple of planes. There were a bunch of vets that were pissed off about it when the US govt allowed Japan to build a monument for their loses on one of the islands.

Pigshit.

saw a few wrecks on a TV doc one...

So basically you're happy to ignore factual reality (not saying he isn't a piece of shit, just obviously not a socialist) *shrugs* don't know why you'd choose to be willfully ignorant but whatever.

okay communist.... that better?

As a communist I can tell you that Obama is not a Communist or a socialist...

If you think he is you are uneducated.

I think I have no real understanding of politics, and have no real interest in politics. I do know that Obama is scum though :2 cents:

Im here too :)

I understand you dont know.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...?currentPage=5
Marc Andreessen: Mosaic was built at the University of Illinois. I was an undergrad student, but I was also a staff member at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications, which is basically a federally funded research institute. When Al Gore says that he created the Internet, he means that he funded these four national supercomputing centers. Federal funding was critical. I tease my libertarian friends?they all think the Internet is the greatest thing. And I?m like, Yeah, thanks to government funding.

Libertarian doesn't mean no research