Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19868136)

But Met-Art is also a competitor, and they charge $39.95 for a single shot, $29.95 recurring. MassageRooms, Dane Jones etc charge $24.95 recurring. So this 'erotic niche' has various price points (and I would argue Met-Art over X-Art being bigger but maybe not).

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19868136)

Erotic/HD I think should be worth more so I'm charging $39.95 for my new HD sites. Also, how much direct competition are we talking about here? Someone who wants to join X-Art for $24.95 will NOT join Met-Art for $29.95 or $39.95?

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19867824)

I would never give billing control of my company over to someone else Beaner. Besides, then YOU would be the dreaded "3rd party biller", which I find quite ironic.

Also Beaner, you have no idea the volume my business does compared to your experience with a single amateur interracial cuckold site. So sorry my friend but no thanks. Not to be rude but I am absolutely more than capable of handling merchant accounts (and all that goes with it) on my own.

Also, for the record, I have absolutely done "rebills only" as a business model (my first 2 years in business), have offered $1, $2.95 and $5 trials before (all with little success), and have experience with many differant types of join options (SMS, phone, check, etc). So I come to these conclusions through trial-and-error experience and (most importantly of ALL) A-B testing.

You know neither my history nor the size of my operation nor the scope of my traffic. But thanks for the offer. :)

Originally Posted by Femjoy Michael (Post 19868767)

But aren't you a network of different sites and different themes? How are you competing with met-art, which is a softcore, teen, pic site?



Met-Art is not direct competition for X-Art. There was demand from Met-Art customers to extend their product to hardcore. Brigham and Colette filled that demand.

We know most porn customers are multi-purchasers of porn products. A person may have membership to both x-art and met-art at the same time, or at different times in their purchasing cycle. That said, the key is retention. You have a network because you are striving for retention, which is good.

Let's use our site as an example. Joymii.com and X-Art have been main competitors for a long time, but X-Art is bigger. When we tried to sell above their price point, sales declined. Since porn customers are multi-purchasers, many do have awareness of pricing. Like I said, it is harder to sell above the price leader, but not impossible, or until you become the price leader.

This data is what I saw, managing hundreds of affiliate programs during my stint as a tube webmaster.

Mark, have you looked at other networks as your main competitor? For Example, WTFbucks?

Originally Posted by BAKO (Post 19868818)

U suck at the internet and have no clue about shit. Can't wait to meet u one of these days at a convention

Originally Posted by Rat King (Post 19868793)

Here's a question... Where did $29.95 even come from in the first place?

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19869059)

True, I do run a network of various sites but I meant those websites specifically (ErosExotica, Felucia Blow, Touch The Body) were Met-Art's and X-Art's "competition". They are extremely unique so there's really no comparison but close enough. LOL

WTFBucks - along with Gammae's network and a few others - are also my "competition" but they too have differant content and setups. But generally-speaking I ignore what my "competitiors" are doing anyway because chances are their traffic, affiliates and overall promotion are very differant from mine.

I've also noticed that what works for other affiliate programs and sites does not always work for me so I try to balance out what I see other sites doing with my own experiences. But end of the day what you say si right: you tried raising prices and sales went down. Not rocket science there, right? LOL

Best of luck, Joymii is quality stuff!!




Suck my asshole and choke on my shit you fucking loser.

How's Amateur Reality doing? :1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Originally Posted by BAKO (Post 19869340)

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http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...e-dickhead.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...e-dickhead.jpg
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http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...e-dickhead.jpg
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http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/k...e-dickhead.jpg

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 19867965)

Wow did you just draw conclusions off a whole 7k visitors

Originally Posted by Jel (Post 19869358)

he was pasting from my original quote in another thread where I used that to reply to swirlsidiot, where I was quoting my own post from another board in 2005 :upsidedow

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19869845)

OK that one made my brain hurt...LOL

It would be interesting if any paysite owners who use "odd" pricing points, like $27.77 or $28.63 would post their results and reasoning. I'm thinking of trying it but the other aspect is you need to give these kinds of changes TIME. Trying it for a few days or even just a week isn't really enough time to tell. You need a month plus from what I understand.

Originally Posted by BAKO (Post 19869323)

U talk a big game but u really are a fucking pussy along with your coward friend Ruff. Fuck u both cocksuckers. Does it really seem like I own that fucking site u dumb motherfucker. lol

Originally Posted by ruff (Post 19869895)

Sounds like you just got your testosterone shot, eh Bako? Arf, Arf!

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 19869875)

Is there even one program here that is actually testing based on conversions and retention what the most profitable price point is?

Pretty much everything I saw was pure speculation as far as I could tell.

If you go by what you think the end user perceives in terms of price/value/prestige/quality then you are not listening to the numbers but what your own internal dialog believes to be true.

A $19.95 that rebills for 6 months with overall retention of 30% beats a $39.95 that only retains 10% for two months but the only way anyone would know that and adjust their pricing accordingly is if they tested first to make an educated guess, which is still 99% better than a hunch any day of the week.

And that doesn't even factor in the come back offer discounts, etc.

Originally Posted by beaner (Post 19869322)

It comes from stores like target, walmart, years and years of sales research. You want to get $30 for something but make the person think they are paying in the $20's.

Same with gas. $4.38 [99/100]. You are actually paying $4.39 but I don't know one single person who goes by a gas station and rounds that figure up.

Originally Posted by Femjoy Michael (Post 19870044)

I think he meant where did $29.95 came from specifically. I believe that was the original MSRP for a DVD. It's still the suggested MSRP for mainstream DVD releases.

Adult DVD releases were priced higher, but the studios tested different price points too.

Originally Posted by Kolargol (Post 19867041)

I agree, lowering prices didn't work, but I run a microniche site with 100% exclusive content so that's probably not very typical situation.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19869982)

Well you must've missed the part where I said I A-B test everything. LOL But that's okay, I missed the part where you said I was awesome and your #1 inspiration. :D

Just kidding. But I did test differant price points and concerning rebills I found that no matter how low I dropped the rebill price the buying pattern for MY customers was almost always a 2-3 month rebill cycle. We had one period 3 years ago where rebills lasted 3-4 months but that's gone now, with even more in the Members Area and 3x the number of websites to the network.

When I raised the rebill price $5 however I actually saw an increase in rebills! The other issue, for my company, is I do splits with partners and affiliates so lowering prices makes the pie much smaller. If my traffic were 3x-4x what it is now maybe I would try that $19.95 price point. LOL

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 19871048)

Yes, sorry, I missed where you said to test. I also admit that it is still taking time getting used to the new moniker so I may have lapsed in my daily acknowledgement of your awesomeness.

It sounds like your issue has less to do with price points and more to do with retention because if they are not staying longer at any price point that you have tested then I would be looking more at user engagement than pricing.

Without having seen your member's area I can only speculate, but I think it might be the multi-site approach. While I believe that was effective years ago, I don't think it is the way to go nowadays because it tends to dilute the brand more than enhance it from instances I have seen.

Originally Posted by ruff (Post 19870466)

I thought the $19.95 and $24.95 pricing originally came from the amateur solo girl sites. Nearly everyone still left is pricing at that level.

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 19871137)

This is true for some amateur networks I have seen, where they keep adding (cheap-ass) sites and have like hundreds. LOL What I may end up doing is only advertising 16 (of my best) sites while also noting I have x number of others. Can't really kill them off or combine them as most make money.

Members Area is definitely key. Mine are not 'dynamic' at all, tho I have bonus material that's updated daily. I know I could do better with either rotating content or updating more but then I'm not sure about that. LOL I've talked with program owners who do just that (update and have highly interactive MAs) and their rebill ratio is not much better (if at all).

If your average is 6 months then I bow to you Sir. (I do anyway, with your history of long-term success.) I've only been doing this about 4 1/2 years.

In the end I'm focusing on traffic. I offer one-time non-recurring options and those are my best sellers so, for me, it's more about front door sales then retention.

Originally Posted by Far-L (Post 19871368)

Getting the surfer there and into the site is the hardest and most expensive part of the process, even organic traffic is costly to generate. Keeping a member is a much cheaper and easier way to increase revenue. Many programs focus so much on traffic, and trying to throw sites/niches down to attract it that they lose focus of that aspect. (Not saying that is your case, since you obviously care about your user experience).

However, since you are focused mostly on the one time non recurring sale and with a focus on paying affiliates for the traffic, my guess is that only leaves you with slim margins to work with. Therefore, since you already have tested pricing, finding ways to make the site stickier seems a much easier path to better margins on the bottom line.

Originally Posted by Rat King (Post 19872500)

Sorry I wasn't specific enough. I get why $29.95 or $29.99 looks cheaper than $30, but wasn't sure where that general "around $30" price point originated from. The DVD makes sense though!

Btw, nice advice Far-L.