This is the dole plan ,that Romney followed created by the heritage foundation. At the time it was hailed by the right as personal responsibility .

No, this is the "Dole Plan":
http://www.dolekemp96.org/agenda/issues/health.htm

That's straight from the "horses mouth" as they say. Not from you reading or listening to a left wing website or news organization.

And Tony...none of the hard right wing people EVER "hailed" either Dole's plan or Romneys plan.

They hated it then, and hate it now.

If you have points to make, you should research them thoroughly. The left wing liars are no better than the right wing liars. And they will mislead you with their statements.

Also, if you have a good point...no need to exaggerate it or try to fudge the facts. Let people see the truth with their own eyes.

Obama has done enough lying as Pres. for all of us. lol

I'm a bit more torqued about less gross, spending less to save and higher taxes

I'm thinking 99% on gfy are losers on welfare........ why else would they be all for passing out 'the rich's money'??? they damn sure aren't working long hard hours to earn and having the gov take it...the only thing that explains the bullshit here :2 cents:

never happen :2 cents:

I'm starting to suspect the same thing. :(

It didn't used to be that way, but I guess with the adult industry in freefall with everything we used to sell being pirated and given away for free...a lot of people on here must have fallen on hard times.

the douchebaggery level in this thread is impressive, even for gfy.

It's not douchebaggery to not want to be forced to do shit against your will or give your money to the govt.

If you make good money you can self-insure (or at least you USED to be able to do that before ObamaCare), and go to any specialists or doctor you need to for your diabetes.

Instead my family, and millions of others are now having our rates jacked up through the roof.
We didn't do anything wrong. But we are going to pay the price for this?

I'm an adult man...and I have to carry maternity insurance in case I get pregnant? WTF?

I understand that this makes YOU happy for YOUR circumstances. But for MILLIONS of people (the great majority), it stinks to high heaven.

In my opinion Obama LYING about it from top to bottom to get elected is the true douchebaggery.

If he had been truthful with the American people he would have never been able to be re-elected. And Obama Care would have never made it through the Senate because all those Democrats would have been afraid of being voted out (just like they are right now).

it douchebag to claim people are on welfare, people are wrong for having a disease, etc. because they think different than you or have a different situation.

Are you surprised?

If I thought people were "bad" for having a disease of course I would be a douche.

But that's not what I'm saying at all.

What I am saying is that millions of Americans (who were already financially strapped) are now getting hit with higher premiums and higher deductibles. And young people who didn't need anything more than catastrophic insurance are now forced to get full insurance and then some (why does a young man need maternity insurance?).

You know I'm right. Nobody should be forced by the govt. to do anything. The govt. is supposed to work for us.

Since it affected you personally, your basic human instinct is to say to hell with the majority of people.

But in your heart, you know it's not right.

That's why I think the whole thing is actually designed to FAIL. Obama knew it. That's why he lied about so much of it. That's why Pelosi said to pass it before you read it.

They want it to fail so we will then go 100% socialized medical treatment.

It would have been far better to FIX the price gouging and bring the prices back to where you wouldn't NEED insurance to treat your diabetes.

Health care should be affordable. Not free. Not paid for by insurance. But affordable, the way it was before the govt. started fucking with it in the 1980's.

What President in your lifetime have you known to be truthful particularly when it came to getting elected/reelected. I am older than you and I cannot recall any.

You aren't older than me. But you are 100% right.

Every Pres., every congressman, every Senator, every Gov. right down to your local dogcatcher have become lifetime/career politicians.

Vote 'em all out every term.

it's not a "claim", it's a fact...

if someone is paying less now, or getting better coverage for the same price, or is in any way benefiting from obamacare, it's because their healthcare is getting subsidized... and that is welfare... no?

there are really 2 groups of people.... one group that benefits from obamacare, and another group that is getting fucked by it... there is nothing at all douchebagy about bitching about getting fucked...

on the other hand, it does seem a bit douchebaggy to benefit from obamacare, and then telling those that are getting fucked by it: "quit bitching... obamacare is great!"

According to what you have stated your age is...yes I am older than you. I entered the Army in 1980 at the age of 22.

You posted this "The govt. is supposed to work for us."

Which "us" are you speaking about. There are more than three hundred million people in the U.S. and they are usually split on virtually every subject to varying degrees...but generally speaking they are pretty much split down the middle on most subjects...so I repeat which "us"?

reality check: people that earn are paying more for heath ins... people that don't earn are getting subsidized health care at a reduced cost... and that's douchbaggery because?

so what you're saying is you are a low income earner?

you didn't read the thread. op claims 99% of people at gfy are on welfare due tom comments in this thread.

Robbie asks me, "what's wrong with you/" when i state i automatically get denied coverage.

umm, you can couch my stance as benefitting from obamacare or you can state it correctly-

i've been getting fucked for 30+ years before now.

that's a lot more accurate.

on ftr, i didn't vote for obama, i don't like obama, in fact, i am otr in this very thread stating i do not expect big things from the new program.

great points woj.... i.e give me your money and shut the fuck up

and when the fuck did i say obamacare is great?

oh i know...... i didn't.

99% of the peeps on this boards are pro welfare, pro Obama, pro Obama care :2 cents:

for the gfy brainiacs that can't read due to their pre-existing biases.

What the heck is that "DEDUCTIBLE" you all talk about?...

Everyone says: I pay 250 with 1500 deductible.. I pay 500 with 5000 deductible.

What is that "Deductible"?...

For you to say 99%...I certainly do not see it that way.

The deductible is what you have to pay annually out of you pocket...for medical costs...before your insurance comes into play. In other words if your medical costs are under whatever your deductible is for the year...all costs are paid by you out of pocket before your insurance will pay any of the cost.

Another way to explain it...if your deductible is $5,000 and your bill is $6,000 you pay $5,000 and your insurance will pay the other $1,000.

99% of all Internet percentages are made up.

Just sayin'…

;-)

An astute educated guess?

It is not a law. :2 cents:

you are right, you didn't say it quite like that... but that's the vibe I get from the obamacare supporters...most say it in a more subtle way, but really the meaning is:
"quit bitching... obamacare is great!"
or
"obama care is great... you are a douchebag for not agreeing"

obama care supporters also like to use "affordable healthcare", when really it means "subsidized healthcare"...

it's great when you are the one getting subsidized, but it's a bitch when you are the one doing the subsidizing for others...

so which group are you pigeon-holeing me into?

and again, for the ~3rd time, i'm not an abomacare supporter. not sure why people can't figure out that i am now by law required to have insurance and guess what, that means i can see a specialist, thus my comment that my experience with obmaacare means that i am seeing a specialist.

that's 99% of all i've said in this thread,

yet i've been portrayed as a *obamacare supporter* multiple times, inferences made that someone like me doesn't make *nice* money, is getting subsidized, questioned on what's wrong with me, comment re: my ability to get approved for insurance, etc.

that's douchebaggery.

Obama Care does not affect me one way or another...so I don't really have a dog in the fight...but when you say "it's a bitch when you are the one doing the subsidizing" are you saying your income is so low that it is a hardship for you to pay the insurance cost?

Do you know how retarded you sound? Do you ever listen to yourself?

hopefully the % is much lower.. your thoughts?

are you getting subsidized health ins or is your health ins going up? simple question....

If I have to make a guess I would guess the split would probably be around 60/40 to 70/30.

you are getting pigeon-holed into the supporter group...

you sound like you are at least somewhat pleased with obamacare... why wouldn't you be? you get "access to the system", are no longer "getting fucked", likely will save some $$ too... is that not the case? I'm not sure why you sound offended?

I didn't mean to imply or infer anything about you or anyone else in this thread (you just got dragged into my comments by accident)...

but the fact remains, obamacare is pretty much: group A (obamacare haters) paying more, so group B (obama supporters) can pay less (minus of course some profit for insurance companies and government bureaucrats) ...

I'm still pretty young and healthy so that puts me in group A, I pay more, so someone else in group B can pay less... and so I'm somewhat displeased with that arrangement... wouldn't you be?

dyna mo, before you get all pissed off...I'm not attacking you, nor am I a "douche" or any other name you want to call me.

You are justifying the govt. lying to us, forcing us to buy a product, and making the insurance companies richer because you have diabetes.

You said you've been paying out of pocket for 30 years. Guess what? 30 years ago in 1983 you wouldn't have had any problem paying out of pocket. Everybody did.

That was BEFORE the govt. got involved and created HMO's to bring the cost down of health care.
What happened? It has skyrocketed since then.

Just like when they started requiring everyone to have auto insurance. The costs skyrocketed.

What did you think was going to happen when you give these big companies FREE (for them) money from every person in the U.S.???

This law sucks. And as for you not being able to get treatment...all I can tell you is that I had a great-grandmother, 1 grandmother and 3 aunts who are diabetic. None of them are rich.

All were able to get treatment. All of them had to inject insulin daily. They all lived long lives and never took a penny from the govt. (except for collecting back their Social Security).

So why is it a good thing to cause millions of hard working people to have yet ANOTHER cost in their lives go UP just so you can see a specialist that you could pay for yourself?

That's all I'm saying. I'm just stating the facts of what is happening.

We were all sold on this by the Pres. saying OVER AND OVER AND OVER that it would save the average family $2500 a year.
Instead we are seeing insurance rates go through the roof.

Remember Joe Biden during the election saying how happy we were all gonna be when we sign up for ObamaCare and see the low rates?
Lies.

That pisses me the fuck off.
I have kids. I have a family. I have responsibilities.

And the last thing I needed was the Federal Govt. to reach into my life AGAIN and cost me even more money that I would rather spend on my kids.

If that makes me a Douche, then so fucking be it.

umm, it's a fucking law. period. fyi but people don't have a choice but to have an experience with obamacare. so your logic is that i am an obamacare supporter because i abide by the fucking law.

do you see how sophomoric that is?

again, for the 4th time- i don't expect great things, but the simple fact is it is a law to participate in the system, i simply communicated my experience here that so far, with abiding by the law.

if you need to pick one of 2 options on stereotyping, go ahead, i guess, feel better now that you stereotyped me as a *supporter*. wtfever that means.

that's like telling someone they support the government for driving the fucking speed limit.

i didn't call you a douche robbie, i said the level of douchebaggery in here is impressive. i.e. you are acting like a douche in here.




so by abiding by the law, you conclude that i am justifying the govt lying to us.


i'm not sure where to start on how ridiculous that is.

Were they type 1 or type 2...as type 2 can take insulin but type 1 is far more serious. Did they have limbs removed? If they lived long lives they took far more out of Social Security than they paid in.

BTW...do you now agree that I am older than you?

Question.

Is one still a welfare loser if they benefit from Obamacare but also pay a heavy tax bill due to being a high earner?

My great grandmother was 76, my grandmother was 77 when they died.

They didn't take far more out at all.

Nope, no limbs ever had to be removed. They took insulin every day of their lives.

I easily see your point...if others don't...in my opinion they are not very bright or just do not want to see it.

and i have no idea wtf you are trying to get at here.

guess what robbie, i was around 30 years ago, how else the fuck did i know i had type 1 diabetes?

and no, my diagnosis in 1983 wasn't an *cash out of pocket* situation. you weren't there you literally have zero idea of wtf you are speaking to here.

you can try and make shit up all day long about the last 30 years of my life, the wierd thing about what you are doing is trying to tell me i didn't have my experience, that's more acting like a douchebag.

moreover, initially, i simply stated that i am looking forward to seeing a specialist finally, you instantly took issue with that and have been trying to poke holes in it ever since


that's pretty fucking douchebag too robbie.

If they began drawing their SSA or SSD when they became eligible...they...with...certainty drew out far more than they paid in.

Do you now agree that I am older than you?

when did i say i didn't get treatment? fyi, i didn't.

when did i say i took a penny from the gov. fyi i didn't.

I'm really glad they are not forcing Obamacare on expats. Sounds like a nightmare.

I usually don't like to get involved in these threads but I have to say that this isn't necessarily true.

1. There are other changes to the health insurance laws besides just subsidies. For instance you can't be denied coverage for a preexisting condition -- now can you have your rates raised because you actually use your coverage. There are others as well such as the elimination of annual and lifetime maximums. This means that almost everyone who gets health insurance will benefit.

2. I have a relative who had no insurance. He got some sort of infection but just tried to let it go because they couldn't afford care. A month later they had to take him to the ER by ambulance. He almost died and had like a 25% chance to live. He needed multiple heart surgeries and other things because infection had spread to his lungs and other organs. He was in the hospital for about a month.

Now let's talk about the bill. $700,000. Yes, 700. They have few assets so guess who will pay (and no it's not me!)? But wait, there is more! He also is probably going to qualify for Social Security Disability FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE. That by the way also gets him full Medicaid automatically.

HE IS ONLY 40 YEARS OLD!

Let's say he gets about $12,000 for SSI disability per year and let's say his medical bills will average about $15,000 a year for the rest of his life (he is going to need valves replaced, back surgery probably, etc). Let us say he will live to be 70 so another 30 years. Let's round it up to $30,000 a year in total to help account for misc. expenses and COL increases.

$30,000 * 30 = $900,000
Now add on the $700,000

$1.6 million this incident will cost taxpayers.

Now here is the fun part. If you are against HCR I want you to pull up close and read this carefully and with your full attention

Guess how much it would have cost (which they did not have at the time) if he had just went to the doctor (he has never been to one in the last decade before this) and got prescribed antibiotics?

Less than $150 in total. :upsidedow Plus think of all the lost income and all the taxes he would have paid over the next 30 years of working. All that is gone. He cannot walk more than 15 paces.

Understand? It's much cheaper (and better for people) if we treat conditions before they turn critical rather than making everyone wait until they get to the ER.