and statistically speaking, getting struck 2x by lightning is more common than having 5 close relatives that are type 1 diabetics.

It blows my mind that people are complaining about subsidizing lower income people's healthcare. And that somehow the current plan of them just having no healthcare and dying/going bankrupt/getting free expensive for us ER healthcare is such a superior situation. Just kind of makes you come off as... Douchebagey

A few years ago a classmate of mine had serious medical problems and was hospitalized in a hospital that was supposed to specialize in his medical problem. He had good insurance so they welcomed him...but their was a problem with his insurance...it had a cap of $250,000. When that cap was reached the hospital he was in transferred him to another hospital and within two weeks he died.

//////////////

I did not understand that transmission.

i'm trying to be nice, in spite of being challenged on simply communicating my experience.

I too find it to be more than a little irritating when something I know to be fact as I have personally experienced it...is challenged by someone.

In Robby's case he is frequently overbearing...obstinate...condescending...and arrogant...as well as often being wrong.

Other than often being wrong...I am much the same.

i get it. that's why we come here. and ftr, i disagree with robbie somewhat often. and the funny thing is i want to agree, i just find myself a few degrees different in view is all( this thread is different)...heck, i've even been open to joining up with the libertarians but they seem a bit overbearing to me and dodge answering any questions that actually pertain to solving the problems libertarians point out.




:upsidedow

1. it's a form of subsidy... people with certain conditions were getting denied coverage because cost of treating that condition was greater than the insurance company could collect from the insurance premiums... why would insurance company want to collect $500/month, when cost of treatment is $1000/month? so now, insurance company will bill $500/month, will pay out $1000/month for treatment, and will collect the missing $500/month from someone else...

same logic can be used for lifetime maximums, etc, if someone gets a rare disease, and treatment costs $100 million, guess what, everyone is chipping in and paying for it...



2. it's a decent argument, you are right, preventive/early treatment is prefered...

but healthcare is a finite resource, there is finite number of doctors, finite number of MRI machines, etc
so for every person getting more healthcare, someone else is getting less...

for every person who has a critical condition, there could be 5 that will go to a doctor because they got a pimple on their face or some other bullshit problem... (it's free, so why not?)

that means that some people with critical condition will have to wait longer for treatment... and longer wait before treatment = worse outcome...

so some will come out ahead with this arrangement, while others will be worse off... it's not obvious at all if on average it will improve "average" health or not...

beats me.... what benefit? all I got was a higher insurance premiums and a lower deductible ... my tax is about 44% on net

make sense

that's how insurance works already. it is divided into pools (umbrellas) the costs of the pool are spread out amongst the pool members and always have been.

the dude in a pool that makes fewer claims covers the one that makes more, in fact, i described this onpage 1 of this thread.


the new system is not different.

look at it like this.... the gov is taking 44% of my net and now wants me to pay for the health ins of others.... and that make me a douche? seems like the harder I work the more I'm punished... the tax liability will NOT go down if I earn more... you do realize that correct?

:2 cents:

I have always appreciated how liberals tell everyone how they should be tolerant of ones opinions, unless those opinions aren't in agreement

As dyno mo has been saying, not all people could even get insurance. You were "fortunate," oddly enough. Imagine a self-employed person with an extreme medical condition earning $150,000 a year. No insurance due to pre-existing conditions and taxed to the hilt just like every other self employed person.

If the gov is really taking 44 percent then time to fire your accountant.

And the policy you have now is actually better then what u had before.

Yes that is 100% correct. It's called progressive tax rates.

You are already paying for the healthcare of others either way. I personally would like to work on going a step in the right direction, even though the laws have some problems. You may lose out on $100 a month. Someone like dyno mo and others who couldn't get health insurance could end up living longer more enjoyable lives. Seems like a small price to pay

For all you wealthy guys freakin out over $100-200 a month, it sure seems hilarious considering this is saving lives, either literally or financially of others.

And twice the price. After adding in the increase in the deductible.

There are 2 kinds of people in this world, those who are able to empathize with other peoples situations and those who cannot. The former are interested in a better world for all while the latter are only concerned with themselves and fuck everyone else. If someone is so pissed off about a system that provides people like dynamo better access to health care then they have never evolved past the point of a 5th grade maturity level and should take a hard look as to why. Luckily Obamacare now covers mental health coverage for people like this.

Uh oh, someone brought common sense and rationality into the discussion.

hey grapesoda, what age group are you in?

it very well maybe that i'm subsidizing you!

:1orglaugh

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...althAge480.jpg

He is most certainly talking about more than income tax. Some people...depending upon where they live...are paying up to 60% of their income in one type of tax or another. More working people are paying 50 plus percent when all taxes are counted...but around 50% of working people do not pay any income tax at all or will get all they paid in back from the IRS.

thx for your explanation.

But why would anyone pay a health insurance then?

I thought that if you are paying a monthly fee on insurance, you want to have your expenses covered.

I don't understand why people pay a monthly fee, if every time they go to a doctor, they have to pay out of the pocket.

reality check: make more money and see how it goes... this is a combination of federal, state and ssi. are you proposing I get a dishonest account and cheat the government? this is a prime example of guys that are NOT earning and GFY Tony.... this is why you think the money should come from 'the rich' and be passed out... because they aren't taking YOUR fucking money... FYI I'm not rich, I'm middle class and I'm being bleed dry :2 cents:

as was pointed out with the higher deductions more like $350 a month or almost double... no problem..... why don't you kick in a help support my daughter and grandson? and what about the 60-70K a year the gov gets now from me.... why not use that money and not charge me another 5k a year? ... I know a stupid selfish idea...

I'd love to see how you manage money... lets see... I can't pay the bills so I'll buy more stuff... :2 cents:

you aren't subsidizing anything for me

It is a hedge bet. The idea, at its core, is that if you have a larger deductible you will pay a smaller premium. It is the same with car insurance. You can lower your monthly premium by upping your deductible, but then you are responsible for more if something happens.

There are insurance policies out there with very small or even no annual deductible, but the monthly premiums on those are going to be very high.

yes with no deductible my quote was about $800 USD month... best health ins I ever had was motion picture... that is bad ass ins :thumbsup

I guess we shouldn't try to do anything ever, because some people might have a bad experience with it.

The alternative of every poor mofo getting free emergency room care at the OUR expense is the best way to go? That's the Republican plan.

it's not better unless you consider a single man having maternal ins better..... you need to stop believing everything you see on TV and wake the fuck up

I think there is a doable way to do health care, I don't think Obama care is the answer... I think if this country got together on the health care issue a workable system would be found and implemented... and BTW, how much is Obama care going to cost you?

thing is I'm just butt hurt because I don't make enough money, and this current job is maxed out... solution: earn more money in another area... pretty simple... guess I'll stop fucking around here and get to work ....;

someone has to pay for older people's exorbitant healthcare costs. if you (and robbie) are in the age group above mine, my pool is most certainly subsidizing you and your healthcare.

you're welcome! i am happy to do so in fact.

it's gfy funny to whine that you subsidize those who are less off than you

but you deny that the younger, healthier peeps in the pool subsidize the older people.

I love how I question your cpa's competence and that's even if you have one.Somehow that means I make no money. I have had my own cpa for 12 yrs and before going into private practice he was an auditor for the state. They invited him to wash dc during the bush years to help audit parts of SSI. Very conservative in his practices.
What do you think I was doing, just hanging out around here for over ten years? You know better,so please dont insult me. Before you became your mean alter ego here ,you were a good guy. With advice and knowledge you would share. Also if taxes piss you off so much, why did you pick a state with a state income tax????? That costs you 6.9% off the top.

What they don't realize is they pay for them one way or another.

the CPA I have is the guy that forced hustler and playboy to consider the models as employees, not contract workers, and withhold payroll taxes, disability etc... ... working for the State Franchise Board of California...

so I'm gonna take a wild fucking guess that he knows what the fuck he's doing... think?

earn some fucking money and see what your tax rate goes to too... seriously Tony if your not paying close to 50% your either not earning or cheating... maybe it is the 6.9% state busting my balls.... the issue has always been work where the talent pool is.... which is changing due to oddball regulations ... so I might be able to get out of 'Montana' after all. :2 cents:

shooting and producing at the level I have been for 3 years is UNBELIVABLE pressure, emotional, spiritual and the usual client/model/membership pressures plus trying to keep 100K worth of gear up and running... all by myself is a pure mother fucker... ... I have days off when models don't show or can't work and then I sleep or work on equip maintenance

time for a vacation :thumbsup

no health issues my man and I pay for all my own expenses :thumbsup

same with catching HIV on set :2 cents:

The new found money is coming from the higher premiums. Hopefully when the insurance companies realize the hospitals can lower prices as they are chasing less of their patients, costs then start to lower again. The system is not new and has been tried in one state.

it's always good to hear peeps are healthy. i know i'm as healthy as i can possibly be due to preventative efforts with food, activity, stress and, obviously, 100% hands-on with my healthcare. even with the type 1, i'm prolly more healthy than a lot of peeps younger than me.

but we are talking about obamacare right? the system in general/total. it's an expansion of the current system which utilizes the moneys paid in by the healthier to cover the costs of the less healthy.

the fact is that overall, as people get older, they get less healthy, consequently taking advantage of the healthcare system more than younger, healthier people. heck, just the difference in healthcare costs between 35-49 & 49-60ish year olds is 50%. that's a lot!

You have NO idea how things work, and fell for the Hard sale by Obama.

Most people who can not afford the insurance still can NOT afford the High deductibles of several Thousands. Thus Going Bankrupt.

Many people still can NOT get Free insurance (Medicaid) in different states with little to no income. If you are going to sell a Plan from the Federal Gov, don't make it look all good, then force it to the States in a couple of years.

While SOME things of this plan are amazing, Most things Suck Balls.

Children on insurance till 26 or what I believe should be still in school (college).
Can not be denied for pre existing conditions, but at what rates?

Funny thing is, if ACA isn't worried about Pre existing conditions and all that, why do they now ask very personal questions at the doctors office.
Drink, Smoke, Seat belt, Sexual, exercise and so on.

I also think many more people will not want to Stay healthy as they are Now Covered. Fix me with a Pill Doctor, so I can still go Eat Junk..

dyna mo, I think you took my question of "what is wrong with you" the wrong way. I didn't mean to imply anything. I apologize if it came off that way. I was just curious about what your medical condition was. I even made sure to say that if it was too personal of a question I understand.

My point is that the govt. shouldn't be forcing people to do anything against their will.

I pay for my health insurance for me and my family. It's now risen up to $800 for three of us each month.

I don't believe I SHOULD have to have insurance for a doctors visit or to go to the drugstore. Those are things I should be able to afford to pay out of pocket.

I believe I SHOULD have catastrophic health insurance in case I get in a car wreck.
And when I did have my car wreck in 2002, it broke my neck and damn near killed me. I had no insurance.

That's when my eyes got opened about how insurance really works. The prices are set artificially high so that you have to pay high premiums. And you pay a lot out of pocket to meet your deductible.
The insurance companies don't ever actually pay those costs from the doctor or the hospitals. It's the "business model" that they use to get more money from the consumer (me and you).

ObamaCare now completely legitimizes that process. And we are ALL gonna get fucked. Even you.

I've never met you in person. But just reading your posts and from past interactions we've had, I think we would be friends in real life.

But I still wouldn't want to pay for ANYTHING that you do. I don't want to buy your food, I don't want to pay for where you live, And I don't want to have my insurance rates raised even higher so you can see a specialist.

I'm not trying to be an asshole. I'm just being honest. I have people that I love and care for that I DO pay for all those things. And I love doing that.

That's the way it's supposed to be. You take care of yourself and your family. And I take care of mine.

But our country has increasingly become (in my opinion) the opposite.

We are taxed every which way. Federal, local, sales tax...we even pay tax on our food! That should be against the law right there.

And for all of that we get a lot of corruption and a federal govt. that is already 17 trillion dollars in debt. And with ObamaCare about to add an extra 2 trillion on top of that.

I don't think it's "douchebaggery" to be pissed off that I'm already giving my money away to a bunch of crooked politicians (with all the taxes I pay...property, federal, local, sales it probably close to 60 cents of every damn dollar).

No, as much as I like you...I don't want to have to pay higher insurance costs so that you can be healthy. I wish you much health and good fortune.
But I love my kids more and want to spend every spare dime I have on THEM.
Or if my mom needs some help.
Or my brothers.

I take care of mine. I don't want to be forced to take care of everybody else. That's all I'm saying.

It definitely wouldn't hurt to add some incentives for people getting subsidies to try to stay healthy. I'm not talking about flat out charging people who are overweight more but maybe setting modest goals for them to meet in order to get a better subsidy or to keep it. The same for smoking too. But that is one thing about Obamacare. It now requires smoking cessation programs to be covered under your insurance. I learned that here: http://www.obamacarefacts.com It's a great site although it might be slightly biased it isn't too bad. Here is the part about the smoker's therapy. See the bottom. http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-smokers.php

i appreciate the thoughtful reply, Robbie. and i apologize for my pointed comments.

i don't disagree with what you are saying. i don't want to pay for your life either.

but that is how a lot of things work and while i don't want to,

i am happy to help others in the system.
i think when people help each other everyone benefits.

i guess my mistake was not realizing this is a politics thread. I initially read it as a health thread and my initial comments were towards that.

I think a lot of people are making this about politics.

I'm trying not to be political, though I guess the whole thing is intertwined since it's the govt. doing it.

My sincere belief is that IF our govt. officials weren't crooks, they would have done tort reform and also regulated the pricing and put an end to the whole insurance scam.

You and I should be able to go to a doctor and pay reasonable fees that everybody can afford to pay. Just like it used to be before the mid 1980's when the govt. first got heavily involved and the lobbyists and corruption began & prices began to rise.

Earlier in the thread I pointed out the similarities between the cost of college as an analogy.
When the govt. started doing student loans...the universities cashed in and the cost of getting an education skyrocketed.

Same thing has happened (in my opinion) with healthcare.
Only this time, it's trillions of dollars passing hands between thieves.

I fear that it's too late now to ever have this insurance scam stopped. Too much money involved. And now with ObamaCare it becomes "law".

I wish they had actually done something about the outrageous price gouging instead of this insurance law.
And it's not even really "insurance" anymore.

The term insurance implies that you are insuring yourself against some future unforeseen occurrence. i.e.: catastrophic insurance

To me it's just another big money grab.

You know, I've seen my income decline by 60% in the last few years due to piracy. It basically wiped out all my affiliate work (which was right at 7 figures in 2006/2007).

But even with that gone...Claudia Marie's paysite still makes me more money than most people.
I have no idea how the average American middle class family that makes a bit more money than the subsidy level (which is calculated by the poverty level) can afford to absorb this extra cost to their budget.

Pres. Obama sold them on it by telling everybody it would save the average family $2500 a month.
And we were told that it would work like that because it would be a big "pool" of people that it would enable the insurance companies to lower our rates and still be profitable.

Who knows? Maybe if they actually do convince everybody to do it then costs will go down. Maybe this is the insurance companies ripping us off as hard as they can at the last minute before it all kicks in.

I hope so. I really do. If the theory of this would actually work, then yeah...MAYBE the benefit of forcing people to do something against their will would be worth it.

But I was taught in school that we were a "Free" people. And our freedom is the bedrock of our country.
This doesn't feel like freedom to me. It feels like being forced by the govt. to buy something against my will.
And most importantly it feels EXACTLY like a scam: We were sold a bill of goods that was knowingly lied about and now we're getting screwed.

You know, the kind of thing that if a private company tried to do it; they would be arrested for fraud.

Those are great, but honestly, unless you Force people to take them, most wont. Or will to look good and then back to smoking or eating and so on. Yes some people quit smoking...