My "three" years studying film is only the time I spent studying it in an academic institution. I have been "studying" it most of my life.

What were you playing? Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Vivaldi? I bet you weren't playing something that was put together by a bunch of money-hungry executives whose job security is based upon how well their next film/piece of music does financially. I'm sorry mate but art and commerce DO NOT mix. Never have, never will.

Of course there are American film artists. The Coen Brothers, David Lynch, Martin Scorsese, P.T. Andersen, Hal Hartley... and many others. But these guys are writer/directors. Their body of work makes sense as a whole. Just like looking at Van Gogh's work as a whole makes sense in the context of his life. Or Mozart's.

You can call Hollywood films what you want. Entertainment? Sure. I might disagree. But when I go to the movies, I probably see films a little differently than you. That's not to claim superiority, that's just because that's where my interest and my knowledge lies. I'm sure you hear a classical concert differently to me because you understand music theory to a greater degree than I do. But Hollywood films are very rarely art. Mostly, they're products, put together by people whose job it is to make money for the studio. There's no artistic process. There's simply commercial concerns.

Your comparison doesn't quite make sense to me. You claim not to care about "years of training" but surely you can tell the difference between a musician who has been playing his instrument for a year and one who has been playing it for thirty? It's all in the craftsmanship, the artistry, the subtleties. You claim not to care about the "writing" but isn't this just "composition"? Surely you can tell the difference between something ordinary and something inspired or magical when it comes to musical composition? You claim not to care about the "artistic value" of films. So why is art important at all? You called music an art and I agree it is an art. If you don't care about a film's "artistic value" then you are saying you don't care about art at all. Or maybe you just put your art above all others. What would you think if some guy said to you after one of your concerts "Yeah man, it was okay but i can't dance to your stuff." That's what you are sounding like to me. Don't denigrate film as art because you don't understand what makes it artistic.

Living standards in Canada are better then the US, and I love asian pussy so being in Vancouver is great for me.
I have zero interest in living in the US.

Except I'd consider moving to is Hawaii. Very beautiful place, and lots of Japanese girls vacation there.
So Hawaii is good, the rest of the US I wouldn't want to live.

ahhhh.. the the thorn in joe's side is revealed.. lol.

Actually it isn't what you think. She has nothing to do with any anti-Americanism I have. She was actually very intelligent. Most of it has come from this board!

just taking the piss dude.. :)

America is a gun happy, selfish, ignorant, unloyal, my dick is bigger, kill the black man, bullshit country. I would never want to live in america. I think "Bowling for Columbine" explains my views on america nicely.

I'm Australian and there's plenty that pisses me off about popular American culture and the USA's arrogant and introspective perspective of the World. But frankly I don't think that Joe Six Pack's shit-stirring posts make him look any better than those he seeks to criticise :2 cents:

However, if I read one more wise-crack about Fosters (a beer we don't drink!), the Crocodile Hunter (a show we don't watch!) or another US/AUS economic comparison based upon gross totals instead of per-capita stats, I might just join Joe's shit-stirring crusade! :winkwink:

'new energiza - it'll surprise ya'! oi!'

Hehehehehee... no worriez :glugglug

LOL! Is that Jacko?

Never saw his US TV series.

Here he was known as an Aussie Rules football player...

And battery salesman :winkwink:

didn't know he had one. energizer battery commercial from years ago :)

Well, the majority of your girls is really fat !

I'm from sweden and I love it.
Been in US, it's ok, liked the weather in florida and LA.
Cool with famous people alittle but that should be it I think.
The values about freedom is the same as in EU and so is
most of those laws.

I don't like this issue at all actually because US people seem
to think that it's only in US they are free and they have such
great country even thought there are so many poor people,
really high crime stuff, schools with gards and if you don't have
money you are nothing.

Apparently, though I'm not sure it was ever broadcast in Australia. You'll be pleased to learn that Jacko's now stepped up in the World and makes a living out of Weight Watchers commercials, just like Fergie! :thumbsup

Joe Sixpack - This board is different from reality.
Alot of people talk smack about various countries but when I was in the US (many times) not one person insulted me, Canada, or had the "my dick is bigger then your dick attitude".

Either all the Americans I ever talked with in real life were too spineless to say whats on their mind, or this board has a lot assholes, that don't represent the average American.

Basically I wouldn't judge a country based on a few posters online.

It seems to me that many people think their country is the best to live. Usually one can cite reasons.

US citizens may cite the strength of it's military or the size of it's economy.

Puerto Rican citizens may cite the beauty of the countryside.

Someone living in Paris may cite it's culture.

Someone living in Amsterdam may cite it's freedoms.

That should not surprise anyone.

I think Americans that say people are "jealous" of America are getting the reasons confused. It is accurate to say that America has the world's largest economy and the world's most powerful military. Most people in the world are aware of that. That the US plays a significant role in world affairs is also true.

A US citizen often reasons that if the US did not have a powerful military and the world's leading economy that no one would care what it did. Well, that is only partly true because as we can see, most everyone cares one way or another about what Iraq is doing yet they have neither.

Historically, countries with a powerful military are particularly meddlesome in protecting their interests. The US has been willing to flex it's military and economic muscles in order to do so. I think Americans should realize that the US does this and that people that live elsewhere might be annoyed and consider there to be an "American arrogance". On the other hand, I think that the US has been no less meddlesome in world affairs than any other country that has had the top military in the world or the largest economy. In fact, one might say that it is been surprisingly less meddlesome than most (consider 19th century Britain, for example). There is an element of Imperialism in US policies but it is very weak.

Also, a comment for Joe. You always ask people that say "I think America is the best place to live" where they have travelled to assuming that if they have travelled elsewhere they would have a different opinion. The fact is that many of us have travelled outside of the country and still feel this way. I have been to more than a handful of countries and yet America is still my home and my favorite place. If I felt differently, I would move.
I am not surprised that anyone would find their homeland to be the best. I don't think you should be surprised that I find mine to be the best.

There is no such thing as a BEST country - there is only "a best for me".

Once upon a crime
By Andrew Hornery with Ben Wyld
March 6 2003

Chopper ... ask him questions nicely.


What's this? Celebrity criminal Mark "Chopper" Reid doing five shows at the Enmore Theatre?

Strange but true, though there'll be no singing or dancing when Chopper treads the boards in April.

He'll be telling stories about his life and providing an opportunity for curious members of the audience to ask questions.

During the 1970s Chopper became a crime commando in Melbourne who terrorised drug dealers, pimps, thieves and armed robbers on the streets and in jail.

But, he boasts: "I've never hurt an innocent member of the public."

Promoters say his new show, billed as an opportunity to "experience the wit and wisdom" of Chopper, will not glorify the crime scene of the '70s.

"Absolutely not," says publicist Marina Saraceno. "It's anti-crime. He's not encouraging people to go out and shoot people or break the law. Mark's done his time and learnt his lesson."

Joining Chopper on the road, in what could only be described as a truly bizarre double act, is former Aussie Rules star Mark "Jacko" Jackson. Jacko will be providing a bit of comic relief, doing skits based on Chopper's blood-curdling stories.

Having flicked through Chopper's fairytale book Hooky the Cripple: The Grim Tale of a Hunchback Who Triumphs, launched last year, we reckon audiences could be in for something special.

"You dirty, filthy rotten cripple. You bring bad luck on the whole village of Catania! You and your hag witch whore of a mother, you both have the evil eye!" writes Chopper.

The charming book, set in 16th-century Italy, is about a young hunchback named Hooky, born to the most beautiful woman in the small seaside village of Catania. Hooky is beaten down by Manuello, the butcher, but triumphs with a rash of violence and legal pageantry - just the thing for bedtime reading.

Tickets for Chopper's five shows are $44.90 each and we hear the first two shows are almost booked out at the 1600-seat Enmore Theatre, which should boost the coffers of Chopper's retirement fund.

You've allowed a few porn webmasters to make you into an 'anti-american"? Sheep.

Goes both ways, Joe. Everyone carries their local habits with them.

When I was in Barcelona, my lunch experience was always that - a seemingly two hour long experience. It was difficult to become accustomed to. Service was slow by the standards I was used to. No one ever came and asked me if I wanted another drink. It took me half an hour to get my check. I realized I was not in the US and shouldn't expect things to be the same. When in Rome ...

Yet, American waitresses often complain that European or South American customers never tip or tip poorly. Some visitors don't realize that the waitresses pay IS the tips. Those same visitors have poor reputations here as tourists for the same reasons that you cite above.

I dont claim to know why you quoted this but let's just look at those figures a little more analitically... compare the total population as well... 20mil versus 200mil... kinda evens out the figures. :2 cents:

Would you believe Andrew is a good friend of mine. Now there's a master shit-stirrer! He even gets paid to do it!

Classic! I'll be buying tickets tomorrow :thumbsup

4 million / 19 million = 21%

35 million / 275 million = 12.7%

I think KRL was trying to show that Australia is almost twice as popular :)

btw I do realise that it's a silly measuring stick, what with Australia being younger and all.

Thats why you're out there making movies. BTW-loved your latest. :1orglaugh

In a free market economy, folks are rewarded for producing goods that society values.

For whatever reason, not very many folks value what you call "arts", hence huge government subsidies to keep them afloat where they would have otherwise gone out of business.:ak47:

Like NSync, Brittany Spears, the fat Osborne girl, Tori Amos.

Just because the cattle like it, or have been convinced to like it, does not make it of any value.

God for fucking bid that middle America EVER decide what is "art" and what is of value.

Now get back in the pen and dont moo unless spoken to.

Americans like things that are no brainers. If it causes them to have to rub more than 6 brain cells together its cast aside. The same way society shuns "nerds", smart = bad. They like their movies the same way. Less talk more action. More bang bang, more explosions and brainless broads showing their titties.

I think Bill Maher talked about this in his second show. He has very good points.

Only 7% of Americans have a passport. Only 10% of those who do, have actually used it (and i wonder what % of those actually went overseas).

Most people who say America is the best country in the world, are "pulling it out of their ass".

What would you think about a person talking shit about you, without even meeting or seeing you? It's exactly the same thing. These kind of people are simply full of prejudice and ignorance. Those are the ones who deserve to be hated.


My personal opinion: I have seen about 10 countries, most in Europe. United States is the best one to live in, because no other governmet thinks this much about the benefit of its own citizens.

Perfect summary of our business! Thanks!

Does not have any value??

Tell that to the bank. :1orglaugh

The fact that you buy NSync and Justin Timberlake cd's is evidence that society values what they produce.

I know this may make you fall off the toilet, but here is something else for you to ponder -->

I society valued what you call "arts", then why is there a need for the NEA to even exist??

Sorry mohammed, but your opinion is definately in the minority. :ak47:

That's all very true :thumbsup But it's not just a matter of Americans not traveling. The US media presents a distorted, simplistic, or worse-still non-existent view of the World. The only time another country rates a mention is when US interests are involved. Whereas most other developed countries and their media are much more outward looking. Consequently the typical citizen of Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc knows much more about the rest of the World than the typical American, even if they've never left their home country.

I am not
USA is the most powerfull country in the world these days but this can be changed very soon
I think that China will rule the world again one day.
Also don't forget that USA has just about 200 year history and its simply nothing compared with China or Egypt or England

God pitty the farmer! :winkwink:

Hija folks..... jeaulous of living in the States, no not really ...i'm living in Amsterdam, thats Holland, Europe ....I live near the red-light-district and have a coffeeshop on every corner on the street ...so who would be jeaulous ???:Graucho

I go to the US frequently and have family there who love it.

I love New York, Vegas and Eva and I had our honeymoon there. We drove from LA to San Fran to Vegas to Grand Canyon, Monument Valley and back viw San Diego.

But living there and working as a pornographer, no way.

I live in Czech and am very happy here.

The US is just for holidays.

I will just stay out of politics and hate.

Because of my work for 6 years with an American Transnational Company, I have travelled there many times, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Seattle, San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, New York, Orlando, Daytona Beach, Tallahasee (the capitol city of Florida for those of you who think is Miami), Kansas City Kansas and Kansas City Missouri of course, New Orleans, Mobile Alabama, to really name a few.

The common denominators, nice places, great and friendly people, awsome customer service in hotels, restaurants, etc.. ( a trait in very short supply here in Europe)

Do I want to live there? NO. I am happy here, because of exactly the same reasons (except thecustomer service) plus great historic places, universal mind, cost of living, travelling etc...

Selfish, ignorant, cock sucking assholes are everywhere, and in proportion, more on this board alone, than within the general population of almost any country.

News everywhere is the coverage of events judged to be on the world stage, national news, regional news, and any other news which may effect the country in question. I own a business in Eastern Europe and read the news there quite often. I can also speak some German.

Take a look at the news from Berlin today.
http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-...tml/index.html

A few stories of national and local interest, a story on the bombing in the Phillipines, coverage of the situation in Iraq, and a piece on Stalin. You can read that same piece on Stalin on cnn.com today and also at the BBC website.

What are the headlines in France today? The situation in Iraq, the bombing in the Phillipines, and the bombing in Israel. What are the headlines in the US today? The situation in Iraq, the bombing in the Phillipines, and the bombing in Israel.

Probably no one has a front page story on the Ugandan soldiers killed in a firefight except Ugandan newspapers themselves. Maybe a neighboring country like the Congo or Kenya (Regional News).

Canada's CANOE is carrying stories today on the front of it's webpage on the situation in Iraq, the bomb blast in Israel, Shania Twain's induction into the Canadian Walk of Fame, and Michael Jackson's paying for a curse on Stephen Spielberg.

It would be silly and presumptious for me to think that European news sources are carrying news today about a proposed bullet train for the state of Florida and yet it is carried in the front section of the newspaper here, "The Miami Herald" -- just as it would be silly and presumptious for you to think the Miami Herald would carry an article today on French fisheries and how they are affected by various European Union treaties.

Nope! I am happy as hell living in Canada! Athough, I do hate the cold weather and the flippin' snow!! I am happy to go to the warm area's of the States when I can, I think that being able to spend 6 months there a year is cool, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Joe... that statement proves you know nothing about music or how the composers you mentioned above marketed there talents. Bach, Beethoven, Mozart & Vivaldi were whores.. they crank out pieces for pay by the thousands. All four of the composers you mentioned did it for pay after they found they had a markable product.. all four mased fortunes. Mozart would crank out 10 to 15 pieces a day.. some of the pieces are so simalar that to this day most expepts can not tell them a part. Mozart used to just change the name of the piece and sell it to serveral different buyers. While he was extremely talented he was not nearly as creative as people make him out to be. He was a master as marketing himself as much as he was a master of his music. Also... Mozart as well as ALL of the gained huge fortunes from there talents. Bach was paid what amounts to 150,000 U.S. dollars for the Brandanberg's which amounts to only 7 minutes of music. Mozart lived in the lap of luxuary nearly all his life. Vivaldi did nearly the same and a died as one of the most wealthy men in his counrty.
Beethoven is one of the few that truly did it for the love music. He was nearly death when he wrote his last three Symphonies. However.... When he was commissioned to write his 9th Symphony he was paid what amounts to $750.000.00 in todays wages.

So... it appears they mix after all.

My views on movies is that they are for mindless entertainment. Its nice to see something done well now and then. but to me its the same thng as going to the bar or bowling or something that requires no brain waves to enjoy. I dont have enjoy its artistic value to be entertained. Sometimes you just have to have fun.

Is Australian culture an oxymoron?

What DOES make a piece of "art" valued?

I'm very jealous..
we don't have guns, 11% psychos, snippers and Bush as president... it's so sad here...

Have you ever actually been to Australia?

The ironic thing is....

The french are accusing us of arrogance and the Germans are accusing us of being militaristic.

Hell - that explains a lot man...

It's no wonder you have a warped view of things.

PLEASE - believe me, an adult webmaster message board is probably not THE best place to form opinions on America or the average American, or the way life is in America.

But in doing so as you have - I can see where you have problems.

Thats a scary thought.

You are confusing monetary value with artistic value. Imagine that. You are a consumer at it finest. MTV says its cool, so it must be. The rest of the herd like it, so it must be good. Moooo

Are you trying to tell me that just because something has monetary value it has artistic value?

Why the NEA?

Because if the world let people like you choose what is art, we would be stuck with the Simpsons and Taz tattoos.

Labret,

When does something have "artistic value"? Some artists think a pile of dogshit with an American flag in it has artistic value. Half of GFY agrees.

What do you say, my friend? How can one tell the difference between whether something merits being called art or whether it is just a plain old pile of shit?

We both know the answer to that and you insult me by asking it.

Purely subjective. And you know that I know where you are going to try and take this next.

:thumbsup

No. I have never had any desire to visit Australia.

:angel

Thanks so much. I was starting to think Canada was one of those 'enemies of the state".

Good to know we have a friend there. :)

Hey mohammed, yes, I am telling you that artistic value and monetary value are intertwined.

Art is very subjective, and money is a facilitator of the value we place on it.

If you are going to argue, then please present some evidence to back up your argument. Please do not let us know how you feel about the Simpsons, Taz cartoons, etc.

When you allow your emotions to dominate your argument, it becomes meaningless.

Nobody gives a rats ass what you think or feel.

Since art is subjective, then why doesn't the NEA give money to Brittney Spears to make records?

Simple, they do not have to, because society values what she produces.

It is narrow minded folks such as yourself that want society to bear the cost for what YOU value.

Your view is very selfish.

Would such things like doggy-shit sculptures and Palestinian poetry exist without the government?

NO, because greater society does not place any value in such things.

If you value such things, then you should pay the cost. :ak47: