oh vey. :1orglaugh

Yeah I noticed that too. Fuck.

It's funny a few months before I sold I went to Allison's (pink visual) content retreat. There were a lot of great ideas and feedback I got from there that I was going to implement. It felt like the solution was there and very viable. I felt like the rise could be turned and then I sold and it seems that all died. The lawsuits died, the fighting died. Am I wrong? Seems like everyone gave up.

Corbin fisher's lawyer is a ruthless bastard going after the guilty and non guilty. Why didn't anyone do that in the straight market? Or did they and lose?

Also from a personal standpoint I've hit a time in my life where I'd welcome there being no free porn. My kids will soon be at an age where what they see online will be a concern. Ironically I feel the industry is at that same point. It's done free and is ready to be back behind a paywall. Sadly won't happen

http://cdn1b.image.youporn.phncdn.co...640x480/10.jpg

YouTube comments:

http://ns1.nd3.netdedicated.ru/uploa...5_11.10.53.jpg

Be good if some real investigative journalists looked into the issues raised, or even some adult industry journalists. AVN? X-Biz? I guess Fishbein is the last investigative reporter they could find (how many years ago did Theo take over from Paul?).

http://media.giphy.com/media/yhbze3D8QhFe0/giphy.gif

Curious to see what Mike South has to say...should be interesting. :uhoh

:stoned

ADG

How much do you think mindgeek paid ABC for that 7 minute ad?

I just wonder where it all ends? I think eventually all of the biggest pay sites will become tube sites themselves and switch to a "premium subscription" business model just like the biggest tube sites are already doing.

tube sites are not the problem... the problem is people hiding behind 'community' protection and having the whole DMCA provide them with a free pass to use whatever they like for at least a couple of days...

I'm all for people posting opinions on the internet, freedom of speech and all, but uploading content one doesn't own has nothing to do with that. I'l say put an end to the unanimous posting of things, if you want to post content somewhere you will have to proof you have the rights to, or at least be traceable when it turns out it isn't.

Well made reporting.

I do believe we are all still waiting on results from the last "investigation". MediaRevenue shit just got swept under the rug.

Naw. I think it will happen, sir. Steps are moving in the right direction. It may take a little time... Just read the news about simultaneous steps taken in EU, US and here in Asia.

It won't happen from within the porn biz. That's the last place. Probably the Motion Picture people (and associates like Universal's j-mafia arm) will fund it. Disney alone is expecting to make $28 BILLION in 2016. They are making more than $20 BILLION this year. These things move slow cause lawyers looking at billable hours are involved. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I believe they are changing the way they will prevent people from seeing porn. So kids won't see it but it will still be free for those who want to see it. Which will mean less eyeballs but no more $$ for anyone.

The gap between haves and have nots is growing which is bad, very bad. I'm starting to wonder when will content stop being produced? Id love to see a graph of scenes produced per year over the past 10 years. Or money spent per year on content. I'm sure it's dropping and probably dropping more and more.

You are right about the gap widening that is for sure. Now there is rioting in several EU countries and mounting pressures inside China...and other places.

I live next to a military base in Japan. It gets noisier and noisier as each days passes, cargo, fighter jets popping the sound barrier. Used to be so quiet....just 5 months ago.

VISA and MC etc will have to step in but I don't see them shortening their profit margins anytime soon.

Ever read the book, Blade Runner by William S. Burroughs? About a time when doctors and medicine were outlawed so people were paid to mule surgical instruments and medicine to the sick. He must have lifted the title from PK Dick.

I think if gap continues world will explode. Humans at least. At that point I guess porn will be irrelevant.
If your kids grew up in a world without commercial porn I would not be sad for them or you. Maybe its good.

I've started shooting other content and content for hire. Working in different genres. I don't see the sense anymore in shooting a scene, going to expense and trouble and having it pirated within hours of uploading. Kicker is, this board is filled with upload monkeys now.

DMCA is the only thing that would be a game changer and it would be a MASSIVE game changer!

While I agree to a certain extent, the problem is that these laws are typically crafted by people with little to no experience about the problem they are writing it for -- and then you have the lobby factor providing assistance, guidance and input on how to craft it. The DMCA is a perfect example of this -- a good law in theory, a completely exploitable one in practice.

Worse, it's been exploited for years, and everyone knows its flaws and yet it has not been amended to close the holes. With Google a big lobbyist for safe harbor with YouTube, I don't see it getting closed anytime soon.

everyone cries that porn only behind a paywall can't be done while Germany has that for 10 years now

only problem is that not all the other countries follow

for some odd reason western countries aren't following germany's lead with regulated censorship. I can't imagine why... ;)

lol - how about coming up with a real reason why hardcore porn only behind a paywall would be bad instead of cheap shots?

Germany and other countries who do such things ought to block all foreign sites not meeting the regulations on German ISPs. That would actually put some teeth into it. Sure some would know how to get around it but 90% won't. Just making it illegal for domestic sites does little to nothing.

Sure gave out the names to all the top places to get free stolen porn but then glazed right over the issues of why its still up. Also pointing the finger at just mindgeek is stupid. Never even mentioned the file lockers and they are a bigger problem.

that is exactly the problem with it - it should be everywhere or nowhere. and you only solve that through working with Visa and Mastercard

yeah, I'm pissed at not being able to watch hardcore porn for free, 24/7, on numerous channels on my tv set - I'm pretty sure there are people who would like to broadcast that, but they're not allowed. It's complete censorship, and trampling all over free expression/free speech.

No unwrapped hardcore porn mags all on the middle shelf at my local newsagent/supermarket either - why the fuck not? That's high enough that only the curious 10 year olds and above would see it it, and not stumble on it by accident.

/sarcasm

The whole 'oh noes, that's censorship!' argument is a crock of shit :2 cents:

The main piece and point (being this for mainstream TV) really it is to show naked girls saying "we work so HARD and... [we end up working too cheap for the same people who pirate our own material]"... while viewers it can mostly laugh at what working hard it means for a pornstar. About showing logos of Mindgeek tubes (and twistys etc.) rather than anyone else... that's innocent I think: the tv journalists asked around and everyone told about MindGeek, so what do you expect - also they surely seen the pornhub logo in don Jon movie.

http://images2.sex.com/images/pinpor...ornhub-ads.gif

you really think there is one person on the planet who is not aware o pornhub? really?

It's already been years since I've been saying this.

so is the false motive of 'i'm worried for the children' webmasters who don't make money with tube sites hide behind. You all had sites up without warning pages before tube sites, still do probably and NOW its a problem? please... Adult sites are all blocked with proper protective software just like they have been for years. Parents not using those or monitoring what their children are watching is neglect pure and simple.

This "protect the kids" mantra annoys me because there is a very simple solution.

All the government need to do is create a separate network for kids that's heavily regulated and only has websites that are suitable for children.

Problem solved!

I don't think it's a bad idea, I just don't see how it can be enforced. Compare it to when people were really pushing avs back in the old days. The idea sounded awesome, but people with free sites and tgp's wouldn't change then so a lot of people ditched it so they could still compete. Is this any different?

From http://www.mikesouth.com

By Mike South
April 14th, 2014

“How Much Did MindGeek Pay ABC News For That 15 Minute Ad For Their Tube Sites?”

That is what my friend Danny asked after viewing the segment on “Nightline”. His second comment was that he wanted to “go to Pornhub and Check out that Tasha Reign chick.”

A little background info is in order here. I was contacted by Alex Waterfield, Producer for ABC News Nightline about two months ago. He said he wanted to do a piece on how piracy has devastated what was once thought to be an economy proof business. He said that he was having a problem getting anyone to “go on the record about a company called MindGeek”. We had a lengthy chat and I outlined the brief history of MindGeek, going all the way back to hahahahahahaha Yousef, Matt Keez and Stefane Manos, the origins of Mansef/Manwin and the International Money Laundering charges.

He made the statement that he couldn’t understand why nobody had ever done a story on how Manwin/MindGeek has decimated the industry almost single handedly (and they still haven’t, hint Alex…You guys might want to take some lessons from Charlie Gasperino over at Fox Business news….He gets it…) ) and asked me if I would appear on camera. I agreed to do so. He also asked me for the names of some people who have been affected by Manwin/Mindgeek in particular who would be willing to tell their story on Nightline. Waterfield never even bothered to contact any of them to my knowledge.

I hooked him up with several, including Nate Glass, whom he had already been in contact with. He assured me that he wanted to tell an honest story and that this wasn’t going to be a T&A segment.

Over the course of the next month I gave him the full history on Mansef/Manwin/MindGeek, including all the websites they own and all the companies that they bought.

I explained the Colbeck Capital/Fortress Investment Group financing, told him who the people in charge at Manwin/MindGeek are, including Feras Antoon and David Tassillo. I also gave him the story on Fabian and NATS and Fabians rise and fall from power.

So given all of that info, the piece that they did was little more than “Cotton candy” Journalism. There was little substance to speak of and in the end they were more interested in the porn chick talking about how she would always be naked if she could be than they were in Nate’s attempt to explain the breadth and depth of the piracy problem.

They even dug up Paul Fishbein for God’s sake and most would argue that he is as responsible for Manwins predatory take over as anyone. Fish had a deer in the headlights look and his statement was bout on par with the South Park teache who says “Drugs are bad, mmmmmkay” If Fish had anything of substance to say ABC left it on the cutting room floor.

Watching this made me glad they didn’t make the trip to Atlanta to film me for this piece because I am sure that I would have been edited in the same manner.

In the end it was just an excuse to put half of Adella’s client roster, half dressed on Nightline and tell the world where they can watch them have sex without having to join a site or pay for anything. The only one of Adella’s clients that was noticeably left out was AVN, likely because it is pretty obvious that Manwin/MindGeek is calling the shots over there…..

Damn shame……Makes me wonder if all of “Nightlines” pieces are as poorly presented…..Yes that was rhetorical.

So basically... you saved him a ton of research work. Feel used much? :disgust

I dont mind that...It happens oddly Fox Business news not only credited me they credited mikesouth.com as well apparently ABC felt entitled to it.

What bothered me is that they were insistent that they wanted to do hard hitting piece...and what they did anything but...

Probably because this is way more interesting for the average viewer than a boring story about mangeek....

once again - the german model is: no hardcore content without age verification - which is usually done through the payment process. there is no pussy for free on a .de domain. and also no filesharing, no torrent and no message boards with that type of content.

the problem is: how to outlaw that in general on the whole internet?

that would work only through ICANN probably - you lose your domain when you post porn without age verification.

I agree, I thought the package was well-done. it did a good job of telling the story by interviewing the girls and introducing tubes, then tied those 2 together by showing the tubes buying spree and the consequence of that- those girls end up working for the very company that runs the tubes.

With the exception of Nate's part, that came off like an ad for the tube sites.

Agreed, and because your example is correct, doesn't mean my example isn't.

I can agree with that as well, to an extent. Just to clarify, as it's easy to forget who has said what previously - I have ZERO problem with tubes - I don't whine like a bitch about them taking sales away, blahblahblah - I think their every move (mindgeek I'm talking here) has been pure genius, from exploiting the loophole that is dmca to do a huge traffic grab, to most likely themselves rubbing their hands at the prospect of some future legislation stipulating paywalls for hardcore - they will get an avalanche of cash overnight with all the extra surfers switching to their 'premium service'. Those guys know their shit, had the balls to do it, and fucking fair play to them.

So anyway, with my stance (or non-stance, as the case actually is) on tubes stated - there's a limit to what people will tolerate, and no way will the argument of 'free speech' and 'whut! that's censorship!' hold out forever (that's without it being a crock of shit as a viable reason anyway to be able to continue) because the fact is, we are obviously evolving fast as fuck technology wise - parent's can't stop their kid looking up shit eating, double anal, rape fantasy scenes, gagging, and all the other niches that are on the edgier side if the next parent hasn't put a block on *their* kid being able to access it. And that is what almost all laws have their base in - the dumb few having to have legalities put into in place to 'protect' all the other sensible people.

No matter how much people stamp their feet and whinge about it not being fair, just like any webmasters who still bitch and moan about tubes not being 'fair', it doesn't matter a fuck :) It won't happen anytime soon, but to think it isn't ever going to is a bit naive, imho.

I'm sure you can apply the same principles as used on P2P networks in order to identify uploaders who upload to tube site.
They are "sharing a file" in violation with the copyright laws. There is $ left on table :winkwink:

Even if that was possible, piracy sites will adapt and hide behide age verification. They will call it "user uploads" and then we are back where it started. Enforcing copyrights. Only now, we also have a global porno gestapo to enforce other rules and more bureaucracy while they're at it. And the porn industry will have to bear the costs in the end aka project dot xxx.

Another problem is definition of porn. Each country would have to synchronize their national laws, and that is not going to happen.

How do you know this and why do you go from 5million to 100 million dollars ?

Questions such as these are exactly why we need Paul Markham in this thread.

Unleash the Kraken!!!!

http://www.fubarwebmasters.com/galle...1/p/z13279.jpg

If Paul's busy, maybe Will76 could fill in... :winkwink:

:stoned

ADG

I was making a general statement, not linking the 100 million estimate to my example of 5 million. But judging from mainstream, Wall Street and other financial sources my basic point is still solid: once you hit a certain monetary 'level' then the power of your money increases exponetially. Think compound interest compared to 'normal' interest.

Once you realize the kind of power those millions can bring you it's a game-changer and most people who do not control that kind of wealth are clueless as to that power. Thus the Rich get richer and the poor-to-middle class continue to complain and wonder.


He may ICQ me with a response and I will post it. LOL!!

if this happens these so called religious groups or anti porn crusades won't see the difference between legal and pirate, so things will turn bad for all of us, so as someone said above we need realistic solutions rather than shooting ourselfs in the foot, creditcard processors involving in this procedure is a good idea for instans, using law affectively and what can we do for it is an other side of the matter that we should handle.

Autonomous might be the better word there. But of course you're right, consequences were always needed for this, and until there are this problem won't go away anytime soon. You know there was always a demand out there for "more free porn!", trust webmasters to figure out how to deliver it better or create scripting that allows the end user to share at will. Everyone's looking to blame the problem on something, the weak DMCA, tubes, even the talent has been blamed in this thread. I say the real blame will always circle back to those people who've sought ways to give away more and more free porn. As in people from our own ranks. IE: Webmasters.

Seriously, what other industry does this? Certainly not the food industry, I see no massive giveaways going on at any of my local markets. Clothing? Nope. Movie industry perhaps? Hmm, still seems to cost about a dozen bucks to get into a theatre these days, and a fairly tight lid is kept on pirating of new films. Why would Hollywood do this when they could set up movie tube sites and give their stuff away for free? Oh that's right, they're in it to make money. Shit why didn't we think of that?

On a side note that guy Gideongallery who used to post here, it would have been interesting to see him come in and argue with you, Patrick the hun, on why you're wrong and why it's a God-given right people have to take what isn't theirs and upload it or profit from it as they see fit. :D


All I know is, as a webmaster when I go to a site like tube8 or pornhub and look around a bit all I can think of is why would anyone pay for porn when it's all right there for free? Pick any porn star, type her in and hit search and chances are good that all or nearly all of her clips will be there. There's more porn video on the tubes than anyone could watch in a lifetime. In three lifetimes. Gosh, when will a giant box store called FOODTUBE open where we can all just go in anytime and grab as many groceries as we can and take it home for free? Boy these other industries are really behind the times.

I still don't understand why 18 USC 2257 isn't used against the tubes.

AEBN used it and then quickly settled their case.

I used it in a BitTorrent case with an Unfair Business Practice cause of action.

And then Pink Visusl used it and I believed settled their lawsuit.

And I don't think anyone has since.

I know the First Amendment Lawyers Assoc was against it though. I caught a lot of flack for doing it from some of their attorneys. But it worked like a charm. A federal judge was afraid to rule on a motion filed by the defendants in my case for fear of making a finding against 2257.

I think 2257 could be a great tool to use. But once again Im sure I will catch flack for even suggesting it...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lg...q9ko1_1280.png

http://anonsofliberty.files.wordpres...arrassment.jpg

I'm curious why the adult industry lawyers like yourself aren't better helping the industry (your clients) come up with good legal strategies for taking on piracy, or helping to craft legislation which we can then push for which actually protects the industry?

:stoned

ADG

Exactly. People do not give even one single FUCK if 99% of the industry dies so long as somewhere they can get free porn.

At this point, it's too late. You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

I did. Like I said, once I filed my case, Pink Visual filed theirs. XBiz did a story about the two cases and the use of 2257 and then it ended.

I caught flack for using 2257 because the industry was fighting against it. I cannot say why no one else is using it but that is what I was told. While no one likes 2257, it's law, it separates us from the issues the music business had in their litigation and it's a powerful weapon. Not only can it be used against tube sites it can be used against the hosts. And if that host is a publicly traded company, it opens up a Pandora's Box of issues for them.

To really police the piracy, you'd have to involve

1) Google - Get them to deindex sites that pirate porn
2) Hosts - Get them to take down sites that pirate porn
3) ISPs - Get them to block access to sites that pirate porn

If it sounds like way too tall a task for Google or ISPs, just think that it only takes the deindexing and blocking of the top (illegal) tube sites before shit hits the fan and EVERYONE starts scrambling to comply.