First you said you had me on ignore, you lied

Second, You bash me all the time, so quit whining

Ignorant?

That would mean you are right, but you are wrong

what he said was

?If you?ve got a business, you didn?t build that,?

That's an exact quote .

Which means you are ignorant

So the GOP jumped on that and said we built it!

Get the peanut butter out of your head! LOL, that's funny some of the shit you believe

I didn't lie at all. I do in fact have you on ignore. (http://screencast.com/t/6mjq8rSh)

I do bash you all the time. Your problem is you are a hardcore Republican, believe in this like a religion, and all you do is repeat the political propaganda without researching anything on your own and without thinking. You are exactly what any political party wants.

The entire Republican strategy right now is "make the other side look bad at all costs". This is not working.

The healthcare issue is a classic example. We need healthcare, we modified Romneycare to work on the national level, we did away with "pre-existing conditions", allowed children to stay on their parent's plan longer, and other changes that are beneficial. Does it cost some people more? I'm sure in some cases it did - it's a national law. But for most people it went down. More people are on healthcare than ever before. People complain about having issues with access to a doctor or medical group; These problems have existed for forty years. But still the Republican party wants to kill this law at all costs without understanding they've already lost. Even if they have this law removed it will still be a loss for the Republican party, and also all Americans who will have invested billions into it only to be returned to square one.

Congress has the lowest approval rating in my lifetime. Time to start doing their job instead of bitching like children.

Damn man, I am sorry to hear this....she needs this. Hope she finds a doc soon.

I opted out of the ACA as it was not able to allow me or my employees access to the best local hospitals that are close to us. 45 minute drive to Atlanta when things are dire or emergency is not an option.

Keep an eye out for something I think is going to be brilliant! The local "healthcare group" here is Wellstar, they are implementing a way to offer their own insurance, provided by them and policed by them. No more paying for unnecessary treatments, cause it will cost them bottom line.
I think this is the switch that needs to happen, and the doctors will stop running from this trainwreck the administration has caused.
Win win for all involved, and the government will be shut out of the whole process.
This is something I will gladly pay for, good local, and affordable treatment with out wondering where to go?
And yes, I will gladly pay for my employees insurance knowing it will work.

I do not blame the Doctors that run from that program at all, they need to make a living as well. Ever tried to get payed on a government contract? I have, and will never do another, Ever.

LOL, then why are we having a conversation?

BINGO, so quit your whining

Registered Libertarian, I just don't like the president, has nothing to do with his party, try to pay attention
Democrats do it better, I know.
Here it is, when did I ever say we didn't need better healthcare? Never
You keep saying this like it's new
Congress approval rating 13%, but you know that includes democrats right? So I really don't know where the fuck you get this is about the republicans. Congress is made up of the senate and the house, senate is controlled by the democrats, so blaming the republicans, pretty fucking ignorant if you ask anyone that knows
Obama approval rating 41%


So keep at it Richard, just showing how little you know about whats going on!


Oh, did I tell you about me working on a democratic super pac for Hillary??

Can't say I'm surprised this was your response. When someone points out the stupidity of your comments.. respond with baseless accusations. I'm me, honestly joined this place over Zombaio payout issues and want to respond to that, but if I can do this country a service by pointing out the stupidity if your comments. It's a bonus.

As for Obama, I honestly couldn't careless about some random speech. However the fact still remains IF you want to keep your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you choose to not pick a plan your doctor accepts, pay him in cash. I don't care. All I care about, is people like you need to grow up. Blaming Obama for your choices is childish.

How was ACA not going to allow you to access the best hospitals? Obamacare is a bunch of regulations, you buy private insurance. What you meant was you couldn't find a private insurance plan which was cheap enough for you which allowed you to access to best hospitals (which is a decision made by hospitals and insurance companies not by Obama)

And just a FYI -- Wellstar is a huge supporter of the law, their plan is in large faliciated by Obamacare they aren't really a good example to use as someone who as trying to "beat" Obamacare, they've been on of the most public supporters of the law since the Supreme Court ruling.

So that's your plan, get obamacare, but pay cash if you want your doctor? Are you that dense?

Grow up, so in your world, lying is acceptable?

And it wasn't a random speech , it was a campaign promise to get his law passed, he lied !

So if you want to debate facts, go for it, but if you just want to debate others facts with your opinion, don't expect us to play nice, Go Fuck Yourself !!!

Mostly because I am bored and I find chats on GFY about Obamacare comical. We've needed healthcare for some time now, and finally someone did something about it. In the end this healthcare law will be accepted by the vast majority and participation will increase. If we are lucky, it will work out as well as Romeycare did in Mass.

I'm not whining. You are. You started the thread, which was nothing more than you beating a dead horse.

And I fail to understand why.

When he was elected we were at the lowest point since the Great Depression and our economy in a complete free fall. He did exactly what was needed. He calmed every one down, righted the damn ship, and is slowly getting the economy where it belongs. Keep in mind this is not a four or eight year problem - This is more like a ten to twenty year problem.

Our economy is exactly where we realistically expected it to be. Unemployment is down, new housing is up (18% as of this morning), stock market is up, individual wealth is up, everything is doing better. You will argue the unemployment statistic until you are out of breath, and then say something like "but our wealth is down compared to 2006" which is obvious because everyone's wealth is down because our economy and housing market and stock market crashed.

Yeah, Congress has an approval rate of 13%, and yes, that includes Democrats. The entire political agenda of the Republicans in Congress has been to trash the President (and Obamacare). Nothing is getting done because of this.

This is the worst possible strategy for the Republican party. They are wasting four years, getting nothing done, and when it comes time to run in 2016 the Dems will say we have an improving economy and a working healthcare plan, and the Republicans will have little more than bad breath.

You keep telling yourself how smart you are, while you make threads complaining using catch phrases directly from Fox News.

No, not caring; I am not a Democrat.

I believe Hillary will win, but I think she's a horrible choice. This has been a planned and well though out scheme to get her into the Oval Office that started shortly after Clinton left the White House. She's been a political insider most of her life, was first lady, a Senator with no track record, and then Secretary of State with no major accomplishments. It might qualify her for the White House, but it surely doesn't make her any good. Then again, Obama had a less than impressive track record and he's sitting in the Oval Office right now.

But I think she'll win - mostly because the Republican party will have had no accomplishments in the past eight years, and after having a black president Americans will be much more receptive to a women president.

I do think it will be amusing to see her debate, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

First off, Welcome to GFY :321GFY
No, I had an insurance salesman come to the shop, highly recommended, we looked at all the plans he had to offer. None of those plans would keep us in a local network, Keyser was the only option.
Second, of course the are proponents of the law to pass, otherwise their is no way the could implement such a plan, as offering Their own insurance. I feel it is a great example of how to stick the whole dick back up their asses.
End game, we are all screwed, just let us choose who we are fucked by.:thumbsup

What's comical is when people show you where you are wrong and you are too dense to accept it, you go on with what you believe even though it's wrong

I'm not the asshole that's got someone on ignore and arguing with them, how fucking stupid is that?
Our wealth is down, but you seem to think it's up, the median wage keeps dropping because people are forced to take jobs that pay less, that's the only reason the unemployment is down, I keep telling you this, I have shown you proof, but you are too dense to accept it

But you only see fault in the republicans, it's both sides, that's why I became a libertarian.

According to the polls, you are wrong

I quote facts, ( read the OP, it's facts)you are the one that wants to argue them, you think that makes you smart?
I just posted from The Beast, a very liberal website that's pointing out some shitty thing the President is doing, you are cherry picking. I hardly ever post from Fox, other networks are finally believing what a fucked up mess we are in where the president can lie about anything he wants and idiots like you will accept it

Yet you still think I'm a republican, just because I think Obama is a bad president

Ok, Richard, you want to beat a dead horse by bringing up fox, here, this is a link from NPR, one of the most liberal news outlets on the net, make MSNBC look like fox and here's what they just wrote about Obamacare.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014...up-health-plan

Obamacare Prompts Firm To Consider Dropping Its Health Plan

AmeriMark's human resources director, Greg Lyons, says the Affordable Care Act is adding to the company's costs. "It probably affects our premiums in the neighborhood of 8 percent," he says.

Thinking it's just Fox proves you don't read shit and can't be convinced that anything negative can be said about Obamacare

And if that isn't enough for you, you know how Obama is pushing for income equality? Turns out his staff at the white house, women make less than men at the same job!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/08/us...tiny.html?_r=0


Fucking hypocrite

My doctor, of course, had an administrative staff. Over the years, as the paperwork became more onerous, he joined a group of doctors who could share a larger staff. When it was going to be a whole new nightmare of re-training or re-hiring the staff, he decided to spend his time on medical research instead of seeing patients.

How would signing up for ACA get me healthcare of equal or superior quality? What would the mechanism of that be?

I do not have health insurance now. I did not have health insurance before. But I used to have a brilliant and compassionate doctor. Now I do not.

Are you a full-time webmaster or is this a side thing to supplement a different primary occupation? (Not asking to be combative, but to determine how you could have qualified.)

CoveredCalifornia's system helps almost nobody who has a business because the State of California bases your ability to pay on how much your business grosses and not how much it nets. One of my grad school professors (who I like) is one of the architects of ACA and I reached out to him when I found that out and he felt that, well, that was just California and it was up to each state to determine various aspects.

Yet 25% of small and medium-sized business owners and their employees were not insured prior to ACA -- a large portion of the uninsured pool.

Big corporations have a cap on how large their fines can be for not insuring their people, but there is no such cap for small and medium-sized businesses.

In my specific case, the care I had been very happy with ceased to be available. But that wasn't what I was referring to.

If we wanted healthcare reform in this country (and I think the majority did), then we should have addressed issues of access to healthcare and not another bailout of corporate welfare for the insurance industry. Apologies if I was unclear. Does that make sense?

Signing up for ACA, through Covered California, will present you with numerous different insurance plans, with different levels of coverages and prices. You need to signup for it and enter your details to see the available plans/prices. It all largely based on your income.

There is no way to answer your question definitively if you haven't even tried signing up yet. Right now as it stands, you are just assuming that there is no quality health care available using any of the insurance plans on the CoveredCalifornia exchange. To me that is short sighted. How do you know that there are no quality health care providers, that will accept an insurance plan listed on the exchange, if you haven't even tried yet?

I understand that. But your situation is not Obama's fault. Your former doctor made his own choice to stop seeing patients. And there are "brilliant and compassionate" doctors that accept insurance plans listed on the exchange. The least you could do is signup for CoveredCalifornia, choose an insurance plan, then see if there the quality of health care is up to your standards. Right now you are just assuming there is nothing on there that will satisfy your needs.

You can bitch and moan about the ACA all day long but the bottom line is something had to be done, health care in this country was becoming dangerously divided.

The ACA isnt perfect, I wont even call it good but at least its trying.

the big mistake by the Obama administration was in allowing the Insurance companies to write the law.

Ultimately its going to slowly move rowards single payer/Universal healthcare

We decided that quality healthcare is a right...now it has to be paid for, plain and simple.

All the Hannity Horseshit isnt going to change that simple fact

Every legal resident of California qualifies for insurance through CoveredCalifornia. Even people without any income whatsoever qualifies. I am self employed, and currently I am getting a better insurance plan for less than I was paying before. Like I said before, you need to actually signup first to see all the available options. Each person's premium will be different based upon the coverage you desire and your income.

You've asked me a lot of questions and I have been forthcoming.

Please answer my questions:

(1) Are you a full-time webmaster?

(2) How would signing up for a plan via CoveredCalifornia help get me healthcare?

Don't sweat it, Vendzilla. I'm okay. I hope that, via the exchange of different experiences and viewpoints, maybe folks can come to understand one another a little better. So much of the debate is so Democrat vs. Republican that I think a lot of people forget that the issues matter in people's lives.

I'm always down for a boisterous party :thumbsup

Oh by the way I forgot to say, CoveredCalifornia uses a modified adjusted gross income, not just straight gross income. I'm not a financial wiz, but MAGI is alot more similar to NET than it is to straight gross.

1. I am self employed. Not a full time webmaster.

2. When you signup for Covered California, you will be given the choice of different insurance plans. You pick the insurance plan that you like. You then take your insurance plan to a a health care provider. Then you get your health care.

I could be mistaken in how closely MAGI maps to net, but I'd need to see an explanation of how.

How does having a health insurance plan selected via CoveredCalifornia help me get healthcare? In what way is that better than paying the person actually providing the healthcare?

I'm not the one creating threads where the first page is pictures of people beating dead horses.

You keep saying I'm wrong like it's a fact yet you can't argue anyone aspect of healthcare.

Really? Are you sure about that?

From the Wall Street Journal:

Americans' wealth hit the highest level ever last year, according to data released Thursday, reflecting a surge in the value of stocks and homes that has boosted the most affluent U.S. households.

The net worth of U.S. households and nonprofit organizations rose 14% last year, or almost $10 trillion, to $80.7 trillion, the highest on record, according to a Federal Reserve report released Thursday. Even adjusted for inflation using the Fed's preferred gauge of prices, U.S. household net worth?the value of homes, stocks and other assets minus debts and other liabilities?hit a fresh record.

The Fed report shows Americans have made considerable progress repairing the damage inflicted by the housing crash and recession, which ran from December 2007 through June 2009 and decimated the wealth of a wide swath of the nation.

(source)

The pre-recession high net worth was 2007 and was $76.59 trillion. Currently it's $80.66 trillion.

Really? Social Security seems to think otherwise.

Here's a graph for you, from SSI:

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/avg_median.gif

From Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...old_income.png

So you were wrong. Again. Twice. Facts don't matter to you, just the propaganda.

But I showed you proof that the median wage is up.... So the median wage is up but yet unemployment is still down.

No, you just keep repeating yourself and the more you repeat yourself the more you believe it.

You have never shown me any proof.

You never quote facts. You never post sources. In the rare event you do it's from some whack job nut website, usually with the name "freedom" or "patriot" in it's name.

So you just admitted you read Fox news.... Perfect.

What did he lie about? That you can still have your doctor? Obamacare didn't change which doctor you can visit. Obamacare didn't say "You can't see your regular doctor because we are moving him to a new network". The law didn't restrict or change what doctor you see at all.

However, plans change, doctors move from network to network, and doctors drop plans. This was long before Obamacare. I had a ton of problems with dentists - Every time I would get a new dentist they would drop my dental plan and I was back to square one. (I finally just paid for everything out of my freaking pocket.)

Healthcare plans change. Every year. This is why we have open enrollment.

(Fucking Verizon changed my phone plan those fucking bastards. No more unlimited data!)

I don't "believe" anything. I look around me and I can see how things have improved. The value of my house dropped nearly $400k before Obama took office, now it's gone up $250k and I am no longer under water. Exactly half the houses on my block were empty shortly after Obama took office, now only one is empty and that just happened.

Every indication is that we are doing better. It's not what I believe, it's what I see and what's being reported. When they say "Unemployment dropped to 6.3%" I accept this as a sign we are doing better; I don't look for a reason to discredit the same statistics I've been reading about for the past twenty-five years.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... It's a duck.

I fail to see how Obama is a bad president. We got sucked into the worst position ever in my lifetime during the recession, and we are a lot better off now than I expected. Again, I'm hoping for the best and seeing what's around me, while you are looking for a way to discredit everything.

Yeah, the economy is horrible: http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-growth-rate/table/by-year

From this chart you can see exactly where it hit, 2008 & 2009, when we were in freefall. Since 2010 it's been up every year.

You are still 100% free to pay your doctor straight out of your pocket. Obamacare does not prevent you from finding a new doctor and paying him direct cash for your healthcare.

The reason many people prefer health insurance versus paying direct cash is so that if a serious health problem occurs, they don't need to pay all the cash up front at that very moment. That can be very expensive. Rather, they can rely on the insurance to pay the doctor.

But like I said, if you prefer to pay direct cash to your doctor every time you visit him/her, you are still free to do that. No one is preventing you from doing that.

But again how is that Obamacare? If a private insurance salesman came to the office, 10 years ago and showed you his insurance options and none of them were in a local network, would that have been Bush's fault? Obama doesn't set up insurance markets for private insurance companies. If private insurance companies decided that it wasn't profitable for them to offer local plans, they have to look at their bottom line. But I don't understand the blame game. I just bought new servers, Perfect world I wanted A, B, C and D. Some optoins had A, B, some had C, D, some had A, B D.. none had A, B, C, D at the end of the day I chose what works best for me. If your local insurance companies don't offer plans which work for you, how is it any different than 10 years ago if insurance companies didn't offer plans which worked for you?

Maybe its just I live in a big city so I had some.. 40 or 50 different options, so if you only have 1 or two options it seems like you don't have a choice but I don't get how people blame others for a choice they are making.

(and thanks for the welcome)

No the study did not find that staff at the white house makes less money than men at the same job. The numbers you're talking about is across all positions not "same job". You can dislike Obama, but can you at least try to be honest and informed when doing it?

Nope my plan was to buy insurance that did what I wanted it to do and thus I did that. You don't need to play nice, I honestly don't care about your attitude or insults. I just dislike ignorance, ignorant voters drag this country down. If you are incapable of unable to make a choice as simple as "choosing an health insurance plan that fits your needs" then I question what you can do successfully. As for Obama, you care about him way more than I do. I care about policies and issues, if Obama has a good idea Im all for it, if Boehner has a good idea, I'm all for it.

Stuff like.. "well Obama said I could keep my doctor, but I decide to choose an insurance plan that my doctor doesn't accept.. so Obama was wrong I can't keep my doctor" is just stupid. As I said, be it pay cash, OR do like most people and simply choose an insurance plan that your doctor accepts you can keep your doctor. If you dont want to do either one of those things, and want to blame Obama for the results of your choices. Ok go for it, you can call him a liar all you want, that has ZERO impact on if something is good or bad for this country.

It's a sign of how far our industry has fallen when people in this business are too poor to pay for their own insurance. :(

What do you do in this business, if you don't mind me asking? Whatever it is, it's obvious that it isn't making you enough money to live without govt. help. That's a bad sign of the times.

And the details on how you believe modified adjusted gross income is anything like net income are what? The actual implementation matters, not just the mood surrounding the policies.

Most educated middle class people think it makes sense to laugh at (or feel sanctimoniously sorry for) poor people who buy lottery tickets. They say the lottery is a tax on poor people who are bad at math.

Health insurance is a tax on middle income people who are bad at math. I understand that health insurance gives people a certain peace of mind, but that peace of mind is a luxury.

Here is an example for you: I went to my local urgent care recently because I no longer had a regular doctor. Their fee was $69. The insurance CoveredCalifornia wanted to sell me featured a $120 co-pay for a visit to an urgent care. So, if I had insurance, it would have covered my expenses over $120 for a visit which cost roughly half that?

The science of statistics was invented by gamblers and insurance companies and the house always wins. If you think you are coming out ahead, you are, by mathematical definition, either the exception or mistaken.

You can see if your MAGI is close to your Net by using the detailed instruction here:
http://www.medicaid.gov/State-Resour...conversion.pdf

Like I said, you are 100% free to pay direct cash for all your hospital visits. Obamacare and ACA does not prevent you from doing that.

Furthermore, you said you have less access to quality health care now versus before ACA. How is that possible? You never had health insurance, and always paid cash for your healthcare correct? So if you always pay cash for health care before, and now, your access to quality health care has not changed whatsoever.

How did you know your co-pay would have been $120 if you have never signed up fo CoveredCalifornia and have never chosen an insurance plan yet?

As I stated earlier, my primary care provider quit seeing patients because of ACA.

Is your primary care provider the only person in the world capable of providing you "quality health care"?

If you pay cash directly for your health care, isn't there another doctor in Los Angeles capable of providing you with quality health care in exchange for your cash payments? Have you tried looking for one?

Obviously, I went through the site and looked at the plans, like everyone else in California with an internet connection.

I'm open-minded. Some of the rhetoric sounded good. The implementation simply does not deliver.

Your real grip should be: "I lost access to my primary care provider because he refuses to take my cash payments".

That has nothing to do with ACA since you were never using insurance to pay him in the first place. Your former primary care giver could have simply refused ACA, but still accept cash payments if he really wanted to continue to see patients.

You would not have been able to see the co-pay amounts and premiums unless you entered your MAGI figures. But you said you do not know how close your MAGI figures relate to your NET figures.

I have not a single word in this thread but I will sum up the ENTIRE Obamacare "situation" for all of you:

You're fucked. The ONLY "people" Obamacare benefits are those "people" who run Insurance companies.

Carry on.

Okay, if you read the PDF you linked, it suggests disregarding a portion of various population's income. I didn't follow how they calculated the precise level of disregard for each population, but it is irrelevant because, in the State of California, a business owner's income is determined based on what the business grosses before expenses.

Why are you so focused on griping and blaming? I'm interested in solutions to actual issues.

I doubt very much my doctor had almost any cash patients. I realize that ACA cheerleaders think all uninsured people go to barely-certified doctors in small offices at the end of needle-strewn alleys, but my doctor was the head of a major department at one of the top hospitals in the world. Not that the details are actually any of your business.

The point of the matter is you said you have less access to quality health care because of ACA.

But in reality, that is not true. Quality health care is still available, especially to people like you who prefer to pay cash directly for every single hospital visit. The more accurate statement is: you have less access to your primary care provider because he decided not to accept your cash payments to keep you as a patient.

I did not say I did not research whether CoveredCalifornia offered anything helpful. I said I was open to the idea that I could be mistaken, if you wished to detail another way of looking at it.

According to the PDF you linked, there is no relation between MAGI and net. The disregard amounts relate to what population they place you in.

I am just repeating what your original complaint was.

And what solutions to actual issues are you referring to? You don't have any actual issues that needs a solution in regards to access to quality health care. You already have your solution wich is: you are able to, prefer to, pay cash for all your hospital visits.

Thanks. That was concise.

I cannot figure out your MAGI or your NET without you giving me
a detailed history of all your income/expenses for the past year. Only you know what your MAGI and NET is. I encourage you to compare your MAGI versus your NET to see how close they compare. For me my MAGI and NET difference was negligible.

For any business which employs more than one person or has any other significant expenses, the difference between gross and net is a big deal. Quantitatively speaking, the largest disregard for MAGI, per the gov doc you linked, is 17%.

How many businesses have a profit margin of more than 83%? Even a self-employed musician or actor will have to pay out more than 17% to managers, agents, etc.

If the difference between your MAGI and net was negligible, and ACA helped you significantly, that means you have no real expenses or your business grosses very little and you probably were qualified for Medi-Cal already, but had simply not applied. Either that or ACA is not actually helping you, unless you had a pre-existing condition. ACA does help some people with pre-existing conditions.

AmeliaG, this is the statement of yours that really puzzles me. You ask "what do you think I should do to get healthcare now?". But the answer should be very obvious to you, pay cash like you prefer to do and have always done before.

Thge whole issue about health insurance is irrelevant...you don't like insurance in the first place and think insurance for people who are bad at math.

So the solution for you remains the same which is: pay cash for your hospital visits. You do not have a problem with access to quality health care (unless of course you think your former primary care provider was the only person in Los Angeles capable of providing you with quality health care).

You are either the dumbest asshole on GFY, or you want people to think you are the dumbest asshole on GFY. Here's the speech:



Hey it's Saturday: Don't you have a Tea Party Ronald Reagan circle-jerk you should be going to? Maybe stick an American Flag up your ass and dance to some redneck music or some shit? Maybe go play Militia with the rednecks at the "Let me tell you what I know about the Negro" Welfare cowboy Bundy homestead out in Nevada? Derp a derp a derp...