Don't sweat it, Vendzilla. I'm okay. I hope that, via the exchange of different experiences and viewpoints, maybe folks can come to understand one another a little better. So much of the debate is so Democrat vs. Republican that I think a lot of people forget that the issues matter in people's lives.

I'm always down for a boisterous party :thumbsup

Oh by the way I forgot to say, CoveredCalifornia uses a modified adjusted gross income, not just straight gross income. I'm not a financial wiz, but MAGI is alot more similar to NET than it is to straight gross.

1. I am self employed. Not a full time webmaster.

2. When you signup for Covered California, you will be given the choice of different insurance plans. You pick the insurance plan that you like. You then take your insurance plan to a a health care provider. Then you get your health care.

I could be mistaken in how closely MAGI maps to net, but I'd need to see an explanation of how.

How does having a health insurance plan selected via CoveredCalifornia help me get healthcare? In what way is that better than paying the person actually providing the healthcare?

I'm not the one creating threads where the first page is pictures of people beating dead horses.

You keep saying I'm wrong like it's a fact yet you can't argue anyone aspect of healthcare.

Really? Are you sure about that?

From the Wall Street Journal:

Americans' wealth hit the highest level ever last year, according to data released Thursday, reflecting a surge in the value of stocks and homes that has boosted the most affluent U.S. households.

The net worth of U.S. households and nonprofit organizations rose 14% last year, or almost $10 trillion, to $80.7 trillion, the highest on record, according to a Federal Reserve report released Thursday. Even adjusted for inflation using the Fed's preferred gauge of prices, U.S. household net worth?the value of homes, stocks and other assets minus debts and other liabilities?hit a fresh record.

The Fed report shows Americans have made considerable progress repairing the damage inflicted by the housing crash and recession, which ran from December 2007 through June 2009 and decimated the wealth of a wide swath of the nation.

(source)

The pre-recession high net worth was 2007 and was $76.59 trillion. Currently it's $80.66 trillion.

Really? Social Security seems to think otherwise.

Here's a graph for you, from SSI:

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/avg_median.gif

From Wikipedia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...old_income.png

So you were wrong. Again. Twice. Facts don't matter to you, just the propaganda.

But I showed you proof that the median wage is up.... So the median wage is up but yet unemployment is still down.

No, you just keep repeating yourself and the more you repeat yourself the more you believe it.

You have never shown me any proof.

You never quote facts. You never post sources. In the rare event you do it's from some whack job nut website, usually with the name "freedom" or "patriot" in it's name.

So you just admitted you read Fox news.... Perfect.

What did he lie about? That you can still have your doctor? Obamacare didn't change which doctor you can visit. Obamacare didn't say "You can't see your regular doctor because we are moving him to a new network". The law didn't restrict or change what doctor you see at all.

However, plans change, doctors move from network to network, and doctors drop plans. This was long before Obamacare. I had a ton of problems with dentists - Every time I would get a new dentist they would drop my dental plan and I was back to square one. (I finally just paid for everything out of my freaking pocket.)

Healthcare plans change. Every year. This is why we have open enrollment.

(Fucking Verizon changed my phone plan those fucking bastards. No more unlimited data!)

I don't "believe" anything. I look around me and I can see how things have improved. The value of my house dropped nearly $400k before Obama took office, now it's gone up $250k and I am no longer under water. Exactly half the houses on my block were empty shortly after Obama took office, now only one is empty and that just happened.

Every indication is that we are doing better. It's not what I believe, it's what I see and what's being reported. When they say "Unemployment dropped to 6.3%" I accept this as a sign we are doing better; I don't look for a reason to discredit the same statistics I've been reading about for the past twenty-five years.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... It's a duck.

I fail to see how Obama is a bad president. We got sucked into the worst position ever in my lifetime during the recession, and we are a lot better off now than I expected. Again, I'm hoping for the best and seeing what's around me, while you are looking for a way to discredit everything.

Yeah, the economy is horrible: http://www.multpl.com/us-gdp-growth-rate/table/by-year

From this chart you can see exactly where it hit, 2008 & 2009, when we were in freefall. Since 2010 it's been up every year.

You are still 100% free to pay your doctor straight out of your pocket. Obamacare does not prevent you from finding a new doctor and paying him direct cash for your healthcare.

The reason many people prefer health insurance versus paying direct cash is so that if a serious health problem occurs, they don't need to pay all the cash up front at that very moment. That can be very expensive. Rather, they can rely on the insurance to pay the doctor.

But like I said, if you prefer to pay direct cash to your doctor every time you visit him/her, you are still free to do that. No one is preventing you from doing that.

But again how is that Obamacare? If a private insurance salesman came to the office, 10 years ago and showed you his insurance options and none of them were in a local network, would that have been Bush's fault? Obama doesn't set up insurance markets for private insurance companies. If private insurance companies decided that it wasn't profitable for them to offer local plans, they have to look at their bottom line. But I don't understand the blame game. I just bought new servers, Perfect world I wanted A, B, C and D. Some optoins had A, B, some had C, D, some had A, B D.. none had A, B, C, D at the end of the day I chose what works best for me. If your local insurance companies don't offer plans which work for you, how is it any different than 10 years ago if insurance companies didn't offer plans which worked for you?

Maybe its just I live in a big city so I had some.. 40 or 50 different options, so if you only have 1 or two options it seems like you don't have a choice but I don't get how people blame others for a choice they are making.

(and thanks for the welcome)

No the study did not find that staff at the white house makes less money than men at the same job. The numbers you're talking about is across all positions not "same job". You can dislike Obama, but can you at least try to be honest and informed when doing it?

Nope my plan was to buy insurance that did what I wanted it to do and thus I did that. You don't need to play nice, I honestly don't care about your attitude or insults. I just dislike ignorance, ignorant voters drag this country down. If you are incapable of unable to make a choice as simple as "choosing an health insurance plan that fits your needs" then I question what you can do successfully. As for Obama, you care about him way more than I do. I care about policies and issues, if Obama has a good idea Im all for it, if Boehner has a good idea, I'm all for it.

Stuff like.. "well Obama said I could keep my doctor, but I decide to choose an insurance plan that my doctor doesn't accept.. so Obama was wrong I can't keep my doctor" is just stupid. As I said, be it pay cash, OR do like most people and simply choose an insurance plan that your doctor accepts you can keep your doctor. If you dont want to do either one of those things, and want to blame Obama for the results of your choices. Ok go for it, you can call him a liar all you want, that has ZERO impact on if something is good or bad for this country.

It's a sign of how far our industry has fallen when people in this business are too poor to pay for their own insurance. :(

What do you do in this business, if you don't mind me asking? Whatever it is, it's obvious that it isn't making you enough money to live without govt. help. That's a bad sign of the times.

And the details on how you believe modified adjusted gross income is anything like net income are what? The actual implementation matters, not just the mood surrounding the policies.

Most educated middle class people think it makes sense to laugh at (or feel sanctimoniously sorry for) poor people who buy lottery tickets. They say the lottery is a tax on poor people who are bad at math.

Health insurance is a tax on middle income people who are bad at math. I understand that health insurance gives people a certain peace of mind, but that peace of mind is a luxury.

Here is an example for you: I went to my local urgent care recently because I no longer had a regular doctor. Their fee was $69. The insurance CoveredCalifornia wanted to sell me featured a $120 co-pay for a visit to an urgent care. So, if I had insurance, it would have covered my expenses over $120 for a visit which cost roughly half that?

The science of statistics was invented by gamblers and insurance companies and the house always wins. If you think you are coming out ahead, you are, by mathematical definition, either the exception or mistaken.

You can see if your MAGI is close to your Net by using the detailed instruction here:
http://www.medicaid.gov/State-Resour...conversion.pdf

Like I said, you are 100% free to pay direct cash for all your hospital visits. Obamacare and ACA does not prevent you from doing that.

Furthermore, you said you have less access to quality health care now versus before ACA. How is that possible? You never had health insurance, and always paid cash for your healthcare correct? So if you always pay cash for health care before, and now, your access to quality health care has not changed whatsoever.

How did you know your co-pay would have been $120 if you have never signed up fo CoveredCalifornia and have never chosen an insurance plan yet?

As I stated earlier, my primary care provider quit seeing patients because of ACA.

Is your primary care provider the only person in the world capable of providing you "quality health care"?

If you pay cash directly for your health care, isn't there another doctor in Los Angeles capable of providing you with quality health care in exchange for your cash payments? Have you tried looking for one?

Obviously, I went through the site and looked at the plans, like everyone else in California with an internet connection.

I'm open-minded. Some of the rhetoric sounded good. The implementation simply does not deliver.

Your real grip should be: "I lost access to my primary care provider because he refuses to take my cash payments".

That has nothing to do with ACA since you were never using insurance to pay him in the first place. Your former primary care giver could have simply refused ACA, but still accept cash payments if he really wanted to continue to see patients.

You would not have been able to see the co-pay amounts and premiums unless you entered your MAGI figures. But you said you do not know how close your MAGI figures relate to your NET figures.

I have not a single word in this thread but I will sum up the ENTIRE Obamacare "situation" for all of you:

You're fucked. The ONLY "people" Obamacare benefits are those "people" who run Insurance companies.

Carry on.

Okay, if you read the PDF you linked, it suggests disregarding a portion of various population's income. I didn't follow how they calculated the precise level of disregard for each population, but it is irrelevant because, in the State of California, a business owner's income is determined based on what the business grosses before expenses.

Why are you so focused on griping and blaming? I'm interested in solutions to actual issues.

I doubt very much my doctor had almost any cash patients. I realize that ACA cheerleaders think all uninsured people go to barely-certified doctors in small offices at the end of needle-strewn alleys, but my doctor was the head of a major department at one of the top hospitals in the world. Not that the details are actually any of your business.

The point of the matter is you said you have less access to quality health care because of ACA.

But in reality, that is not true. Quality health care is still available, especially to people like you who prefer to pay cash directly for every single hospital visit. The more accurate statement is: you have less access to your primary care provider because he decided not to accept your cash payments to keep you as a patient.

I did not say I did not research whether CoveredCalifornia offered anything helpful. I said I was open to the idea that I could be mistaken, if you wished to detail another way of looking at it.

According to the PDF you linked, there is no relation between MAGI and net. The disregard amounts relate to what population they place you in.

I am just repeating what your original complaint was.

And what solutions to actual issues are you referring to? You don't have any actual issues that needs a solution in regards to access to quality health care. You already have your solution wich is: you are able to, prefer to, pay cash for all your hospital visits.

Thanks. That was concise.

I cannot figure out your MAGI or your NET without you giving me
a detailed history of all your income/expenses for the past year. Only you know what your MAGI and NET is. I encourage you to compare your MAGI versus your NET to see how close they compare. For me my MAGI and NET difference was negligible.

For any business which employs more than one person or has any other significant expenses, the difference between gross and net is a big deal. Quantitatively speaking, the largest disregard for MAGI, per the gov doc you linked, is 17%.

How many businesses have a profit margin of more than 83%? Even a self-employed musician or actor will have to pay out more than 17% to managers, agents, etc.

If the difference between your MAGI and net was negligible, and ACA helped you significantly, that means you have no real expenses or your business grosses very little and you probably were qualified for Medi-Cal already, but had simply not applied. Either that or ACA is not actually helping you, unless you had a pre-existing condition. ACA does help some people with pre-existing conditions.

AmeliaG, this is the statement of yours that really puzzles me. You ask "what do you think I should do to get healthcare now?". But the answer should be very obvious to you, pay cash like you prefer to do and have always done before.

Thge whole issue about health insurance is irrelevant...you don't like insurance in the first place and think insurance for people who are bad at math.

So the solution for you remains the same which is: pay cash for your hospital visits. You do not have a problem with access to quality health care (unless of course you think your former primary care provider was the only person in Los Angeles capable of providing you with quality health care).

You are either the dumbest asshole on GFY, or you want people to think you are the dumbest asshole on GFY. Here's the speech:



Hey it's Saturday: Don't you have a Tea Party Ronald Reagan circle-jerk you should be going to? Maybe stick an American Flag up your ass and dance to some redneck music or some shit? Maybe go play Militia with the rednecks at the "Let me tell you what I know about the Negro" Welfare cowboy Bundy homestead out in Nevada? Derp a derp a derp...

LOL!!! No way you are a Libertarian. You don't even know what it means. Face it Vendzilla, you are a TEA PARTY REPUBLICAN.

This discussion about MAGI vs NET is all irrelevant now in terms of your health care situation. You said insurance is for people who are bad at math. So it does not matter whether or not insurance coverage is based on MAGI or NET, you prefer not to use health insurance either way.

The bottom line is you prefer to pay cash for your quality health care. So by all means, please continue to do so. Your access to quality health care has not changed one bit. The only thing that has changed is your access to your previous doctor, and that was because he decided to stop accepting your cash payments to remain as a client.

if you took the over 3 on my over/under,
you're the big winner!

http://www.gsalehouse.com/blog/wp-co...80_poster.jpeg

The issue is access to healthcare for everyone.

For most professional webmasters (which is probably the job of most people posting here), if they need help, ACA does not offer them help.

For any business which employs more than one person or has any other significant expenses, such as paying out out 50% to affiliates, the difference between gross and net is a big deal. Quantitatively speaking, the largest disregard for MAGI, per the gov doc you linked, is 17%.

How many businesses have a profit margin of more than 83%? Even a self-employed musician or actor will have to pay out more than 17% to managers, agents, etc.

If the difference between your MAGI and net was negligible, and ACA helped you significantly, that means you have no real expenses or your business grosses very little and you probably were qualified for Medi-Cal already, but had simply not applied. Either that or ACA is not actually helping you, unless you had a pre-existing condition. ACA does help some people with pre-existing conditions. As you seem to wish to make the issue discussion excessively personal, did you previously qualify for Medi-Cal or have a pre-existing condition?

The issue I am discussing with you is your personal alleged problems accessing quality health care. Why? because you specifically asked me how it is possible for you to access quality health care.

So I just want to get one thing straight. Since you said you prefer to pay cash for your health care, you personally have no issues with getting quality health care. You have paid cash for your access to healthcare before Obamacare, and after Obamacare. Do you dispute that?

You know, most people, when they hear that someone else has had to deal with a hardship, they feel sympathy. They don't get all angry and attack-y.

You keep changing the subject to be more personal and more of an attack and that is really unnecessary, especially when you refuse to share any of the types of personal info others have shared in this thread.

I do have difficulty getting quality healthcare now and I've stated and explained this over and over again. How exactly do you think I will get healthcare with cash now? Should I just wander outside handing dollar bills to strangers until someone tells me they went to medical school? I have asked you over and over what you think the mechanism would be, but you obviously have no empathy for other humans.

I've also pointed out that ACA does not work for anyone with a business because it is calculated based on gross and not net. You suggested that I was mistaken and I took the time to read the documents you said would prove your point. When I brought up the math seeming to require a business to have an 83% or better profit margin, you went back to making more personal attacks.

Do you believe ACA helps you? Did you previously qualify for Medi-Cal or have a pre-existing condition? Were you insured before ACA?

Why do you think I am "attacking" you? I am not. I am just very confused with your statements...like this one:

"How exactly do you think I will get healthcare with cash now? Should I just wander outside handing dollar bills to strangers until someone tells me they went to medical school? I have asked you over and over what you think the mechanism would be, but you obviously have no empathy for other humans."

Do you really need someone to answer this for you? Are you serious? Have you never ever used a phone book or an internet search to find a doctor that will help you? Do you know where hospitals are located in Los Angeles? Every single hospital in Los Angeles is ready to accept your cash payments.

Just do a quick Google search, pick up a phone book, walk into a hospital...you will get yout access to health care if you do any of thos things. I am surprised you are even asking such a question.

I want to know if you are being serious or just trolling. Your above statement is totally confusing to me. If your are being 100% serious in your above statement, how do you function in other parts of your life:

How do you know where to buy food? Do you just "just wander outside handing dollar bills to strangers until someone tells me" they have food to sell?

How do you know where to buy a car? Do you just "just wander outside handing dollar bills to strangers until someone tells me" they have a car to sell?

How do you know were to rent an apartment or buy a house? Do you just "just wander outside handing dollar bills to strangers until someone tells me" they have a house to sell?

etc etc etc

Yes, you are coming across shockingly indifferent to the pain of others, but, okay, I'll try to accept that you actually may not comprehend the issue of access to healthcare.

Do you believe ACA helps you?

Did you previously qualify for Medi-Cal or have a pre-existing condition?

Were you insured before ACA?

What do you do when you need healthcare? Not an emergency like a heart attack, but something which requires medical expertise. What is your process? Do you seriously just go to the closest hospital or google +doctor +"my city"?

Do you know why I have not revealed my specific health care situation to you in detail? It is because I have never asked for health care help here. I have never said Obamacare is better for everyone here.

Do you know why I am focusing on your specific health care access issues? It is because you specifically asked me how it is possible for you to access health care.

And yes, when I was looking for a doctor, I went to my local hospital. They had a list of general practioner doctors as well as different specialists. It included their bio and education history. I picked from the list. I then also searched the California medical board website to see if the doctor I had chosen had any malpractice problems. It is very easy for anyone to do this either in person at the hospital, or doing a Google search. Doing a Google search is even better because it includes personal reviews from other patients. Is this concept foreign to you?