Gun argument thread #10,867.

I bet if we all keep hammering away at it we can solve the problem once and for all right here on GFY.

Maybe by Christmas.

Which well regulated militia do you belong to?

:thumbsup

US 10.3 dead people on 100k, people
Singapore 0.16 deaths on 100k peple
Japan 0.06 dead people per 100k (strict anti gun laws)
UK 0.25 -dead people per 100k ( also pretty good solution for this mess)
Norway 1.78 per 100 k(someone mentioned Norway above)
Serbia (my country) 3,90 and I don't have a problem to say it is fucking primitive society with so many guns around. Only uncivilized societies need guns in 21 century as far as I am concerned.

Exactly. People act like there's some factory making black market guns. And these mass shootings that keep happening are most of the time done with legally purchased guns, so the illegal gun boogey man goes out the window.

A gun should be a giant pain in the ass to acquire. We can still have them, but even if you're a mentally stable person, you're going to have to jump through hoops. If that could save a life here and there, I can't see why gun nuts can't accept a little compromise.

When you see a knife attack by some homicidal maniac, it's because they couldn't get a hold of a gun. We're not going to stop people from being crazy assholes, but making them find other ways to harm people besides using guns will make rampages more survivable.

Yep, kind of funny though whenever some drunk plows into a bus and kills 10 people you don't get a group of people saying "see? laws don't work, get rid of drunk driving laws".

Maybe in the US but over here no one ever sees that need.

Edit, I would probably own a gun as a US citizen too but in the rest of the civilized world there is hardly a need

Exactly, I choose to live in a place where I need not worry about that. Could it happen to me of course it could. However I will not live in fear.

What I don't understand is your continued support of guns when your country obviously has a massive problem with gun violence. Anyhow so be it, its your "right"

the one the Supreme Fucking Court outlined when they interpreted the 2nd Amendment as it applies to modern times.

50 guns don't kill people

true, but if all would be drunk ..... the good drunk could have taken the bad drunk out ! :upsidedow

Actually, it's quite simple. The problem lies in our culture as Americans. As far as we've advanced with equal rights and other things, we've become extremely intolerant. People have no common courtesy for others, they have no respect for others. Most have a sense that they are the only person who matters, they want what they want, and fuck anyone else.

Because of that, people lash out at others. Those who have access to guns use them. I'm not just referring to the rash of mass shootings. There was a local story here in PA from a few months ago. Apparently, some guy driving on Interstate 81 did something that pissed another driving off. Rather than simply flipping him the bird and yelling obscenities at him (or better yet, "letting it go," the offended driver proceeded to play road games with the first driver. While the first driver called 911, the second driver pulled out a gun and shot the first driver, as they were driving at speeds of 65mph. The first driver was killed, leaving behind a wife and young child. All over a driving foul. Simply because the second driver lashed out and didn't think about anyone but how pissed off he was. Fuck that this guy could have a family, fuck that this guy had every right to live. But I'm sure the shooter feels better now that the first guy won't switch lanes without signaling, or drive in the passing lane instead of moving over.

Things like this are becoming more and more common place. And even without guys, people who feel they get slighted are so self-centered, they'll beat someone to death over the dumbest shit.

I read an article the other day that a guy shot a cab driver because he thought the cabbie to a longer route to charge the passenger more money.

Our culture needs to change. And I don't blame this on violent movies, video games, music, etc. I'm a product of all of that. But what I had, that many in this country are lacking, is a proper upbringing. My parents instilled in me at an early age the difference between right and wrong, fantasy and reality. I was also taught respect. Respect for other people is something that is seriously lacking in today's America. When I went out walking somewhere as a kid, I didn't cut through my neighbor's yard as a shortcut without permission from the neighbor. I never leaned on a stranger's car when chatting with someone in a parking lot (or my dad's car for that matter).

All of this is what is lacking in our culture. We've become a society of "me first, it's mine, I don't care about anyone other than myself" people. Nobody respects anyone anymore. It's quite sad.

And because of this mentality in our society (not even touching on the mental health issues), people like me are afraid to speak up when someone does something disrespectful (like the old bitch who cut in line in front of me at A.C. Moore the other day when I was trying to pick up something for my son's last school project), because who knows when some fucking asshole who can't think or behave rationally will just pull out a gun and start shooting, or a knife and start stabbing. Sadly for the gun rights activists, it's probably more likely to be a gun.

So the ultimate solution to the problem is to change our culture as Americans. But under the current conditions, the prospect of increased gun laws has more and more appeal.

Every time I see or hear about gun violence (or knife violence), I can't help but think of what Craig's dad said to him toward the end of "Friday" when he saw Craig had a gun.

(holding up fists) "Back in my day, this was all you needed for protection. You win some, you lose some, but you live to fight another day."

I cannot think of a single example when any friend or family member has ever needed to 'defend themselves.

That is always the most ridiculous argument :2 cents:

Japan
The UK
Canada
German
Australia

These are countries that all have very strict gun laws.

According to this all of them also have a murder rate that is much lower than the US.

I understand that there is much more at play when it comes to murder rates than just the availability of guns, but I think it does play a role.

Based on your example, Norway has a high rate of gun ownership for a European country, but the ownership rate is still only about 35% of what it is here in the US. For that matter, when you look at the examples used in the article that you linked all of those countries have gun ownership levels that are significantly lower than the US.

I'm not saying we should outlaw guns. I am just saying that if we are going to live in a society where guns are everywhere and easy to get we can't be shocked at the level of gun violence that we have.

I can't say I take issue with much of that, but my point stands. I've posted long rants much like yours on maybe a dozen threads in the past, and the one thing I know for certain is that no one's opinion here changes one iota, and when the next big horrible shooting incident happens somewhere another crop of threads pop up every time arguing the same crap over and over and over ad nauseum.

So like I said, my earlier comment stands.

Good post though. :thumbsup

I don't live in fear.

I am however very aware of the low-lifes we have in our society.

What is fucked up, is when I took my concealed carry class, you only had to shoot the gun 3 times. Most of the class was covering the law and what you can or can't do but actually using the gun, it was like a assembly line. The 20 or so people in the class just all lined up squeezed off three shots and they were qualified.

There really needs to be much more training involved on how to properly handle a gun. Not just about how to keep yourself out of trouble for carrying at a post office or so on. There should be some sort of require DC hands on training that consists of more than squeezing off a few shots.

I think that it is safe to say that the "nuts" are the ones with guns behind much of the gun crime and gun killing, and most of them are pro-gun. :2 cents:

Unfortunately, the NRA wants to make it easier for such nuts to acquire guns:

NRA Trying ?To Make It Easier? For Criminals And Mentally Ill To Get Guns by Mark Kelly (retired US Astronaut, husband of former Congressperson Gabby Giffords):

http://weaponsman.com/wp-content/upl...6/gun-nut2.jpg

To want to put an end to the madness and suffering caused by the too easy availability of guns is a sane response to an unacceptable amount of death and suffering.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a8/a8a1...c70b6d49d5.jpg

This first video has good info about the history of gun control in America, including how the NRA was once a proponent of gun control; that is until the NRA leadership was taken over by shills for gun manufacturers in the 70's, whom are opposed to virtually any effort to bring some sanity to the wide availability and use of guns as an inanimate tool for causing widespread fear, suffering, and death, and are directly responsible for annually killing thousands of people indiscriminately:







To the pro-gun nuts, what concrete proposals do you recommend/support to help stop the epidemic of gun violence?

Love and Peace (a nice alternative to Hate and Violence),

:stoned

ADG

all jokes aside I love that area and consider moving there, Slovakia actually ..

I think the massive issue in the states is the overwhelming protection offered to 'criminals' myself, allowing absolutely no fear of consequence :2 cents:

for the last 30 plus year the media has heavily pushed the 'minority' agenda of 'owed entitlement' .... you don't expect a backlash?

so I need to give up my gun because the murder rates are artificially inflated due to inner-city gang warfare... I get that right?

dear shitbag larry, pls stay out of my threads

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude is on your ignore list.

We execute more criminals than any other western country and we in-prison more people than any other nation on Earth. What protection are criminals granted?

This I have to hear..

We have a lot of guns and a lot of gun crime. I ignore the facts?

It is always the race card. White people have guns because they fear black people. I think this is the only reason we cling to our guns so tightly.

Read this today in the news.

Kim Kardashian doppelganger Claudia Ochoa Felix is the alleged leader of a Mexican hit squad. --> Source

http://resources2.news.com.au/images...99985b0af1.jpg

http://resources1.news.com.au/images...99985b0af1.jpg

http://resources3.news.com.au/images...99985b0af1.jpg

http://resources0.news.com.au/images...99985b0af1.jpg

.

Oh look, the foreigners are still babbling about what goes on in my country.

You guys must live in complete boredom. Go outside or something.

And they are full of gangsters who have guns that were stolen from people who bought them legally.

I have said a few times in this thread that I think people should be allowed to have guns. I just think that getting a handgun should be much more difficult than it is.

Yup you should be able to buy any guns you want just make it less laughingly easy to acquire.

Majority of these pro gun arguments are absolutely ridiculous and are the result of a very successful NRA brainwashing campaign

How do you explain that the USA is the safest it ihas been in 50 years then?

We lock up more of our citizens percent wise then any "civilized" country. We have harsher sentences etc. The USA is not at all lenient on criminals.

You can sort this and we are second highest - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rceration_rate

a guy could walk up to a cop and your entire family, kill them in cold blood with witnesses, throw up his hand and ask for a lawyer. and have a 50/50 chance of getting off on a legal technicality... are you really that naïve?

well that certainly is an unreadable fear for sure :winkwink:

the real issue is you and people like you.... how could we possibly trust you to an honest discussion on gun regulation when you'll say ANYTHING, ANY LIE, ANY DISTORION OF FACTS to push your agenda... seriously :2 cents:

probably not related to a large population of 'mildly to legally retarded people' being granted almost unlimited funds and being told they have the right to anything other people must work hard for..... or 'mildly to legally retarded people' being told they aren't responsible for their actions because whitey fucked them over... ?

just sayin' you know? or are you under true impression that most people incarcerated are master world class criminals?

how is it living in your own little delusional world?

How many times have all your guns saved yourself, friends, or family from a threat? It must suck being in constant fear for your life that you feel you need guns for protection

The rest of the world?

I don't know about Europe...but when I see the news from the Middle East, they make guns in America look like the freakin' boy scouts.

Those guys are running around with machine guns in the streets and rocket launchers!

Also, when I look at statistics of "guns per citizen", I always think to myself: That doesn't take into account the gun collectors who own thousands of guns and have them in display cases.

The majority of Americans don't own a gun.

But every criminal DOES own a gun and does use them.

By the way...when I was a kid, I grew up in a small town in Florida.
My dad had his rifles on the gun rack in his pickup truck. So did my grandfather and all of my uncles.

Guns were everywhere. They were in our house, they were in the vehicles, etc.
None were ever locked up. And they were ALWAYS loaded.

It was the same at all my friend's homes as well.

And even though I didn't have a pickup truck or a gun that I carried around...when I was in high school in the late 1970's, there were lots of guys who did have pickup trucks. And they had their rifles in the gun rack in the back window of their trucks parked right on the school property.

Nobody ever even THOUGHT about coming into a school and shooting back then. They wouldn't have made it very far.

I can only imagine in today's pussy ass world if a guy drove his truck with rifles in his gun rack onto school grounds. He would probably be surrounded by a SWAT team and thrown in prison.

Back then we grew up with guns and respected them. These days? Kids grow up killing thousands of people with guns on video games.

And then when they FINALLY get their hands on a real gun (with no training or respect for the weapon), they go out and try to replicate the video game in real life. :(

So you're saying that drunk driving laws don't work. And you're right.

Drunk driving laws are just ways for the city to make money off of people. That's why they have lowered the blood/alcohol level so far that you can use Listerine mouthwash and blow "drunk".

So they pull over thousands of people and ruin their lives and bankrupt them.

Meanwhile, the REAL drunk drivers continue to drive completely wasted and kill people. Half the time it seems they have already lost their licenses and are driving with no license, no tags, etc.

Guess what? Criminals don't obey the law. They don't care about the law. They never have and never will.
That's why what you said happens all the time. And the "law" doesn't stop it one bit.

All it does is punish "normal" people.

Just like gun laws.

Criminals don't give a fuck about any law. Only citizens who AREN'T criminals will be affected by any law.

It's kind of a conundrum.

Think of the 2257 law.

It was supposed to be a way to stop underage porn from being shot.

But guess what? Legitimate people never shot that shit anyway (not on purpose...Traci Lords used fake ID and would still get away with it today).
And perverts shooting underage shit? They STILL shoot it.

But how can that be? There is a LAW after all.

Yeah, and the only peope suffering from that "law" are the legitimate people. We have to keep all these fucking records and worry about having our doors kicked in by the govt.

The bad guys shooting that underage shit? They don't keep ANY records and stay under the radar.

That, unfortunately is how it works. Criminals break the law and don't care about it. While the good guys are burdened by the law.

The problem with our society is all of these "preemptive" laws. Trying to stop crimes before they happen.

It leads to a fucked up situation all the way around.

Here's an old-fashioned idea: Instead of trying to preemptively enforce "laws"...how about waiting until somebody actually DOES something and then arrest them and punish them for it. (that's what always happens in the end anyway)

I know, I know....that just sounds crazy. :disgust