Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 20192908)

I do not know of many people who would say that (i.e. build your own), when there are so many out of the box solutions available on the open market in regards to an MTA. It comes down to what you want to spend to license or buy them among other things. Each MTA has different bells and whistles, so you pick what best fits your needs and budget.

If you're doing a small scale list or newsletter a few times a month, an ESP (like Amazon) will be a dandy for you.

If you have decent sized lists, older lists that you need to clean up, or you plan to send more than a few times a month, you're going to need to look at other more cost effective options. I can tell you even at .10ct, if you're sending daily or even a couple of times a week on a decent sized list it will cost you considerably more than your own hosted solution.

Lastly, if you're mailing adult, you might want to bone up on the laws, especially for Michigan and Utah to make sure you're not mailing shit to minors. Following CAN-SPAM, especially in regard to adult mailing, is key to keep you out of hot water.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20192850)

Of course it depends on the service you use, no one suggested using a mickey mouse operation. Saying the best way forward is to use a self hosted solution is totally incorrect and in some cases, very short sighted.

We use to host our own using mailer using Interspire and found the cost prohibitive the larger we grew (in terms of our lists). I'm not just talking money here; I'm talking maintenance, architecture and knowledge too. These have serious impacts and these are the areas where you will see benefits when using a service.

Some people will say build your own mailing application. This isn't as simple as it sounds. There is a lot that goes on behind the scenes in an application of this nature. So why then re-invent the wheel when there are very capable and tested applications that do almost all of the work for you, like Interspire and OemPro (maybe sendy but I haven't tested this yet).

Similarly, using a service to actually deliver the mail (like SMTP and Amazon SES) have major advantages. You are putting the expertise of people a lot smarter than you to work for you (this is a general you). Yes, some services are extortionate and yes, some services are less than "fit for purpose"but that's where you need to do some research and figure out what is best for you economically and technologically.

Most people wouldn't host their main money site in their garage, and most regular hosts aren't capable of setting you up with a mass mailing solution that covers all the bases for a best practise mailer. This is precisely why you have services.

I'm no mailing guru and I don't claim to know it all but what I do know is that handling the actual MTA isn't for everyone and that it isn't always economically or technologically sound to do it. I know that in my specific case, it made more sense to outsource this to a service (SMTP.com) that knew what they were doing. I only recently discovered Amazon SES and have run a few tests. It works quite well and at $0.10 / 1000 emails, it is a steal. This means more money in my pocket and less hassle too. I don't have to worry about hardware, I don't have to worry about scale, I just have to make sure I handle bounces, unsubscribes, feedback loops, etc. Basically everything I would do if I hosted it myself ...

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20192915)

By application I was talking about the web or desktop based software you use to create the mailing, manage your lists, and track stats. I didn't mean develop your own MTA; an MTA isn't an app. They are two different beasts.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20192915)

I've already stated that "for me" outsourcing to a place like SES is economical, it may not be for everyone.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20192915)

You're making assumptions that people don't know they have to be compliant. Being compliant has nothing to do with whether you send using a service or send via your in-house setup.

Originally Posted by gamelinkjeff (Post 20192743)

Check https://messagebus.com/

You will thank me later.





:thumbsup

Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 20192930)

Again, this reinforces you do not know what you're talking about when it comes to an MTA and what is out there on the market. Many, not all, already offer this stuff built in. You can track your openers, clickers, unsubs, FBL's, and all of that. You can segment your lists, build your creatives, import them from ad networks via their API's and so on. It all can be done within the MTA. You can even manage your ip reputation and rotations to keep the from getting BL'd in the first place if you are running clean lists.



Exactly.



You're getting sidetracked with nonsense. That was not my point at all.



It sounds like you do not know a lot about mailing making such comments. That being said, I have a lot of experience and am simply trying to help the O.P. in looking at all solutions available so they can pick what is best for them. I do not have any dog in this fight other than years of experience. I am not trying to shill a product, nor do I have any ego or machismo involved as I do not get paid to win web duels.

With that being said, unless you know about both ESP and hosting your own mail solutions, you do not know what you're talking about. However, if something like Amazon has worked out well for Razorharpe and the little newsletter he sends, that's great!! However, as I said, it is not a fit for everyone and there are other options available out there. Both hosted, and otherwise.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193089)

I need to get back to trying to make my "little newsletter" a "little" bigger ....

Originally Posted by edgeprod (Post 20193558)

In this thread: information beyond the scope of most people's understanding being ignored by people too inept to make use of it anyway.

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 20193637)

Thanks for the Sendy.co link, whoever posted it. In the process of moving a few lists and getting that set up.

Originally Posted by candyflip (Post 20193637)

Thanks for the Sendy.co link, whoever posted it. In the process of moving a few lists and getting that set up.

Originally Posted by DamianJ (Post 20193739)

Amazed if amazon allow porn emails...

Originally Posted by edgeprod (Post 20193558)

In this thread: information beyond the scope of most people's understanding being ignored by people too inept to make use of it anyway.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

Hi Dom, going by bare's response to this post I can only imagine that it's aimed at me. No harm, no foul; you're wholly entitled to your opinion of what you feel I know and don't know.

"information beyond the scope of most people's understanding" - I totally agree which is why I feel an in-house solution isn't for everyone. It would be like letting a kid loose in a NASCAR competition the first day he passed his driving test.

Mailing does require a LOT of know-how like you've pointed out. To do this in-house one could: teach themselves (would take forever), they could hire someone, or they could just wing it and see what happens. Another option is to out source it to services like SMTP, etc. My sole intention in this thread was to make people aware that there just isn't one way to tackle this.

Why would I learn to design when I could outsource to any number of designers? Why learn to code when I can outsource to any number of coders. Why learn to rear chickens when I can buy then at a supermarket?

People shouldn't feel restricted or think that something isn't possible just because they don't have the skills to achieve it. At the end of the day they need to weigh up what it would cost, see what the pros and cons are and make a decision on what works for them in terms of using a service or doing something in-house.

It doesn't bother me one iota that someone on the internet thinks I'm wrong (I'm not talking about you) because I'll continue to do what works for me. I just find it absurd that people would tout "in-house" as being the only way to go simply because they apparently have a massive list(s). Most people DON'T have massive lists and even if they did, a service may yet be what is right for them simply because it would cost more to gain the expertise to do it in-house.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

Hi Dom, going by bare's response to this post I can only imagine that it's aimed at me. No harm, no foul; you're wholly entitled to your opinion of what you feel I know and don't know.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

Mailing does require a LOT of know-how like you've pointed out. To do this in-house one could: teach themselves (would take forever), they could hire someone, or they could just wing it and see what happens. Another option is to out source it to services like SMTP, etc. My sole intention in this thread was to make people aware that there just isn't one way to tackle this.

Why would I learn to design when I could outsource to any number of designers? Why learn to code when I can outsource to any number of coders. Why learn to rear chickens when I can buy then at a supermarket?

People shouldn't feel restricted or think that something isn't possible just because they don't have the skills to achieve it. At the end of the day they need to weigh up what it would cost, see what the pros and cons are and make a decision on what works for them in terms of using a service or doing something in-house.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

At the end of the day they need to weigh up what it would cost, see what the pros and cons are and make a decision on what works for them in terms of using a service or doing something in-house.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

It doesn't bother me one iota that someone on the internet thinks I'm wrong (I'm not talking about you) because I'll continue to do what works for me.

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20193860)

I just find it absurd that people would tout "in-house" as being the only way to go simply because they apparently have a massive list(s). Most people DON'T have massive lists and even if they did, a service may yet be what is right for them simply because it would cost more to gain the expertise to do it in-house.

Originally Posted by Barefootsies (Post 20193968)

Odd. That sounds like what I have been saying the whole thread. :helpme



I think it's safe to say most people do not give a rat's ass if you're right or wrong. You're just some stranger on the internet. The problem here is you're taking this personally because you do not like people's feedback. You believe in your ESP solution, and I can speak from BOTH the ESP as well as in-house solutions when it comes to mailing. I have experience with both, and can actually speak about pretty much anything to do with effective email marketing from years of experience.



At no point did I say that "in-house is the only way to go".

In addition to taking everything personal, you also apparently can't read, so I can completely understand why you would be frustrated. More over, you take me citing that you have a small list as some sort of personal insult, which again, is on you as it was not meant as an insult if you actually read the context of my comments between an ESP solution and an in-house based on needs.

In short, you're getting all bent out of shape either because you can't read helpful remarks in context, or you have tender internet feelings.

:2 cents:

Originally Posted by RazorSharpe (Post 20194005)

You're funny :)

Originally Posted by edgeprod (Post 20194296)

And correct as all fuck. Correct as Jesus Motherfucking Christ descending from the heavens and dropping truth in your lap. As serious as a heart attack, more powerful than a locomotive, able to leap tall SPFs in a single cock-sucking bound.