You are 100% correct.

you guys know that you don't HAVE to upload clips longer than 3 - 5 minutes right? Just because a tube WANTS you to, doesn't mean you have to. Nor do you HAVE to give them a cumshot, or HAVE to skip clothed intros etc. You want views, or you want sales? One does not necessarily include, or preclude, the other...

yea nothing i stopping you from uploading watermaked 30 sec clips. some tubes accept pretty much anything.

The amount of people who want to view 30 second unedited tube clips could fill an undersized shoe closet in tokyo..

Actually it would be interesting to try this for a month and see the results. Some tubes would just reject the clips while others would simply preclude them from reaching the Homepage. So the benefit would be for searches. But if a producer has a ton of longer videos already on the tubes then those longer clips would have to be removed. Most tubes would not like getting an email saying "Please remove these 853 clips over 5:00 minutes..."

Agreed. :)

"Viewing" isn't something you should be interested in.

Weird... as the stats show that Tube traffic value continues to decline I see an inverse rise in the ratios for agreeing with Robbie... :winkwink:

Interesting, isn't it?

I think if you run unique sites (the only kind that are still around and active, for the most part) in certain niches you're better off without the mass exposure a tube offers. Social media, interactivity, emails, etc can bring better results. But if you run more generic porn sites - you know, people just plain ol' fucking - then tubes can be beneficial.

But let's not under estimate the value of branding a tube site can bring a paysite. Would Blacked or Fake Taxi have been as huge without tube exposure?

Don't know the answer to Blacked. And I don't know what is considered "huge" these days.

But for Fake Taxi the answer is "no" it would not have.

If anyone but JT had done Fake Taxi and didn't have the connections he has as far as selling YouPorn to MindGeek and now having all of his properties "managed" by MindGeek they wouldn't have had the same results.

His vids get preferential treatment first off because of his associations. And now secondly because MindGeek is managing the sites for him. And what that means is they are aggressively going after other pirate tubes and pulling his shit off of them while keeping his clips up in the first few pages always.

You or I could have shot the same exact site exactly the same way...and it would have went nowhere. Even if we submitted the same exact clips to the tube sites. That's just the way all business works.

As I said earlier....if you can get enough views (in the tens of MILLIONS) you are bound to get some sales (throwing shit against the wall...something sticks)

But most paysites find their stuff buried on the tubes and that's just like being on the tenth page of Google for your search terms. Useless.

Anyway, I hope that you are able to figure out your next move. And I hope that some of the people reading this thread came away with some good ideas and concepts.

Not many business threads left anymore since so many people are kind of out of business (especially affiliates)

People love cumshot movies, and if the certain traffic likes a certain girl, clip or style of filming, people click to the site for more content from the model or company, as preference to that tube clip, as with any other niche :2 cents:

I have a question about your content - I get the impression that you mainly buy cheap non-exclusive stuff, and if that is actually the case then what is retention like once they get there? Branding may help get them there but what keeps them once they see the same stuff the tubes probably already own? Or is the play to just count on the boost in cam rev or cross sells?

Well most of my stuff is older content yes but I also have some sites with brand-new HD content. With close to 100 paysites there's bound to be a big mix. LOL

But to answer your question: My rebills are around 2-3-4 months but again this is because there are so many sites to visit. These days, as users get more and more inundated with sites, devices, etc, the convenience factor is huge. Plus, inside the Members Areas I have several daily-updated HD feeds, massive bonus content, etc (plus an upsell to Homegrown Video!). So it's all good bro. :D

To answer the original question...

If they didn't use them all on tubes... What would they do with all that cum? ;)

Quoted for truth.

:2 cents: :thumbsup ...

I like Felliciua Blow, is that you in those movies? :pimp

Oh God no, that's not me. No one wants to see my teeny peeney. LOL!

In our case, and you know we have been doing this a while, the tube traffic retention is the absolute worst. We have tons of exclusive content and everything these days except for our older "renovated" movies are in HD. We have bonus sections, special updates, etc., pretty much everything you describe except I think, although it might be a false assumption for which I apologize, that we have way more exclusive content. While we get that sort of retention or better on other traffic, the tube traffic is ridiculously bad at this point. Wasn't always that way, used to be worth it for sure, but now is another story so I am surprised to find that you are not experiencing a similar statistical drop.

So bro... are you telling me your retention is that good on your tube traffic because I seriously am ready to call bologna sandwich with mustard and mayo on that...

Well as much as I like boloney sandwiches.....LOL That's not specifically on 'tube traffic', just overall. But when you join one of my sites you get access to all 88+ sites and it takes a long time to visit them all. In fact, I just instituted a one year only option that is KILLING it. The feedback I am getting is there are too many sites to see in one month. I hadn't expected that (if I had I would've offered it years ago).

Also I offer two non-recurring options so rebllls are only half the join options. Those interested in recurring memberships tend to stay a while (or cancel right away, either one).

Tube traffic has become less effective in the past year but this is mostly due to consolidation, I think. Tubes that used to get uploads (and had good conversions) like Spankwire, Pornerbros, YOBT etc are no longer resources. With your stuff, being amateur, I would think it would be harder with tube traffic anyway. The plus side is I'm sure social media and other traffic sources are available to you.

That makes a lot of sense. You certainly are doing many things right just to be around these days. :thumbsup

^^This

keep sending your content to Tube sites :thumbsup you'll make a few sales and your content will obsolete faster than you can say "whatTheF....?"


As a consumer, why would i get a membership to your pay site when all I have to do is this: https://www.google.com/search?q=erosexotica

I don't know, why would you buy Evian when all you have to do is turn the tap in your house?

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=bottled+water

That analogy has been put out there by people for years now. And it isn't even close to being accurate.

For instance, here in Vegas the water comes from the Colorado River. And you have to use a whole home water conditioner (and add 40 pound bags of salt to it) just to keep the minerals in the water from destroying your dishwasher and clogging the pipes of your home.

There are a few places where the water is good. Like when I lived in South Carolina and Georgia. The water there tasted good and was very drinkable.
But not everywhere is like that, for instance...I wouldn't drink water out of the tap in New York City if you paid me to.

The better analogy for our situation would be:
Why would you buy Evian IF someone were giving unlimited bottles of Evian away for free?

That's the correct comparison. And guess what? Evian wouldn't allow that to happen.

Well not everyone lives in a desert Robbie. LOL And sorry but your ignorance is showing here. The water in NYC has been consistently voted the best tap water on Earth for decades now. It's cleaner than bottled water. It comes from the mountains of upstate New York.

Blind taste tests have proven people cannot tell the difference between tap and bottled water. It's all psychological, which your comments prove. The analogy holds because water is water, you either pay for it or drink it for free. And bottled water marketers have done a better job of convincing people they will DIE if they drink tap water than porn marketers have done at convincing their visitors they should buy their porn. Period.

Bottom line: If someone is visiting your paysite it's YOUR job to sell them. If you do not, bad on you. Blaming anything else is a copout.

I guess I am ignorant of the water in NYC. :)

But my point still remains.

You are making a comparison of something that people pay for to come out of their tap as opposed to something they pay for out of a bottle.

The correct analogy would again be: If someone were giving bottles of Evian away for free.

And yes it's always the tour and content that is needed to sell a membership.
But you will NEVER sell a membership to a guy who just jerked off and came before they ever saw your tour.

To boil this down:

- Tubes have all the traffic, as people like to jack off for free and they have all the content readily available from content partners either legally or "uploaded by a user"
- The more they like the content partner teaser videos - forcedly optimised for length, content, etc. - the less inclined they are to click through and sign up
- Simple conflict of interest as everyone wants to keep/convert the member

This is quite straightforward.

Can we turn the thinking around? What would you suggest for a tube site as long term solution that keeps content partners happy (= growing and producing great content), yet keeps the surfers loyal to their brand instead of looking for just content partner gains to reverse their decline? Is there a solution where everyone wins?

Most of the ideas above are good for the content partners, but definitely not beneficial for the tube itself and hurts their retention. And you can guess that anything that hurts retention will not be seen as a smart step forward from tube point of view. It's not likely that anyone managing a tube would say "it's ok if I lose some loyal members as long as content partners are more happy than they are right now".

Eg. display short clips without cumshots, present the content better so the CTRs are better, more spaces for promotion, this way the revenue from content partners will be better etc. This is pretty unrealistic, as you won't be able to make up for the lost ad revenue with increase in content partner income. The cam/pills/dating offers are built for the masses and they will easily beat you (you, as tube+content partner cooperation for better results) in the ad creative + bullshit landing page + get out your card call to action optimisation game, considering its tube traffic.

So in short - the tube loses returning visitors, loses money so "the future of content business is not in jeopardy". Unfortunately I cannot imagine a board meeting ending with this conclusion.. :2 cents:

Very good thread by the way.

Tubes are a mass of jerk off content, that satisfies people who like to jerk off.

Paysites are a smaller mass of jerk off content, that satisfies people who like to jerk off.

Paysites can't win this battle, and still insist on trying. So the obvious solution is to change and offer something the Tubes don't. BTS, interviews, personality, characters, etc.

Tubes will demand more and more as competition between them grow and their ratios drop. To expect them to earn less so paysites earn more, is insane.

Because enough content providers will bend over.

While I'm personally able to tell the difference between some brands of bottled water and tap water, and have done a blind taste test to prove it, the water itself is not the main reason i buy bottled water. The reason I buy it is for the added value which comes as a result of the water being in a bottle.

Packaging.

When i'm out and about, it's easier for me to just buy a bottle of water. I know it would be cheaper to just fill up a sports bottle with tap water and bring it with me everywhere but that seems like a pain in the ass and i like my water cold so i don't mind spending the extra money.

Convenience.

So look to the bottle!

Environment be damned.;-)

Is this cum dilemma solved??

Evian is the word 'Naive' spelt backwards...

Just thought I'd share...

You're comparing your site with premium bottled water and Tube sites with tap water?

Should the other way around:
Your content can be found on google within 3 seconds
Tube sites are getting a much better ranking than you are (on your own domain KW)
Tube sites streams, quality, content delivery are much better/faster than yours.

So, it should be the other way around really, you're offering expensive tap water when Tube sites are offering FREE Evian water.
But keep submitted to tube sites, yes; they will get your traffic and sales but for how long?

While your points are quite valid the future challenge tubes face does not resolve itself by doing nothing. You can only sell cams/dating/pills to the masses for so long - while content providers slowly go out of business - before the tube itself will realize it's losing traffic, visitors, members, revenue. So then what?

Either the tubes MUST work with - and give concessions to - content providers OR the tubes will have to go into the content creation business. (OR continue to display older licensed content and then watch their revenue and views slowly diminish over time.)

Leave it to a Frenchman to not get the Evian example and get everything backward. LOL Tubes have free, paysites have paid Members Areas (where the content is in 4k, UHD, HD, 1920, etc etc). Tubes offer the lowest quality streaming possible unless you pay for their HD service. So no, I offer the Evian, they offer the tap water.

Because without the cumshot it's tougher to cum on my keyboard.