Just curious, how much tube traffic are you getting per day from tubes specifically? What's the conversion like too 1:500, 1:1000???

Prn Nrd,

I will suggest to you right now the steps to take. Talking is a shitload easier than doing. So I'm doing the easy part and you'd be doing the hard part.

Plan 1:

1. Partner with PR. Rebrand, or popularize their content producer partner tube
2. Publish honest, RT sales and traffic stats to all initial producer members, invite only
3. Share every fucking revenue stream, not one or two, every. That way your partners are actually partners and they'll jump in to optimize where they can.
4. Develop the best fraud and chargeback protection, as well as takedown, this is worth paying for
5. Ask for content that drives certain revenue streams; this is where the sharing all revenue will help you. 12 with pop drives traffic; 3 with teaser drives joins; Softcore might allow for new classes of advertisers, WHICH IS A GOAL WE ALL SHOULD SHARE, etc
6. Stats, stats, stats - implement the best surfer tracking tools
7. Allow for pure hosted, pure affiliate, and hybrid partners.
8. Use gaming psychology on surfers, with rep, scores, achievements, etc, and surfer to producer rewards for top notch content
9. Dispatch the smartest guy in your operation to sell to new add accounts
10. Reward producers who grow revenue
11. Make settlements quick, fair, and transparent.
12. Implement bitcoin (or some better designed digital currency) micropayments

Plan 2:

1. Gather a group of interested producers and developers, develop a tube.
2-12. As above

For a few months, maybe 6, you'll get slow traffic, as frustrated surfers link in and affiliates test their models. Then, you'll start being competitive.

When I say 'optimized for tube traffic' what I mean is that the Tour is working WITH the tube to confirm a sale. Think about it: yes traffic is traffic (or, people are people) but if that visitor is coming from a blog chances are high that they are readers. Yes? So have them land on a text-heavy descriptive page that will feed into their natural (reading) tendencies.

But let's say that visitor just came from a tube where they either just whacked off or watched a bunch of your videos. So why then would they come to your tour? For confirmation of what they just saw on the tube. They do not want to read, they do not want to watch another video, they do not want to THINK - they want confirmation that what they just saw on the tube they will see more of if they join your site.

Therefore get them to the join page ASAP. No 'speed bumps' (text, video, bells & whistles). Anything that prevents a visitor from getting to the Join page ASAP is not optimal. This is my philosophy.


Nothing is 'steady', everything ebbs and flows depending on when videos are posted, what videos for what paysite, what time of day, what day of week, etc etc.

Have we talked before? Because you outlined most of what my tube will be doing. :)

The only thing left now is the cost analysis. It's one thing to launch a tube, it's quite another to sustain and grow it. I will make my final decision about this in January once the Holidays are over. But your points are absolutes. :thumbsup

We actually opened our own tube.It is small, only a few thousand visitors a day, but the focus is on getting them to visit our sites, not to stay on the tube.
We also have focused more on our Twitter campaigns and promos, as well as increased the amount of galleries we put out every month.

No, we never replaced the amount of traffic we used to get from the tubes. But it was crap anyway, so by focusing on our new better-quality traffic, and not wasting time with the tubes, we have increased our ROI

From what you wrote TPN...you would simply link straight to the join page and bypass the entire tour.
That would be about the crux of the "optimization".

Other than that...every tour of every site that is worth it's salt is already "optimized". Especially since the majority of sites are now using one of the widely distributed CMS to run the site.
A tweak here and a tweak there...but otherwise all the same general idea.

I spent some time 2 weeks ago with one of the...if not THE...top guy in advertising in the world. He showed me exactly what real research into the human brain shows and is being used by advertisers now.
And he showed me how the human brain is wired and why the most successful Super Bowl ads clock in at exactly 30 seconds. Anything more than 30 seconds and a different part of the brain kicks in and begins to question the ad.

Think about that. Do some research. You'll quickly see that people putting up those long clips (and yes, I've tried it too including cumshots...and of course it didn't work) are doing the exact OPPOSITE of what can motivate a person to buy a membership.

It's interesting stuff. And once you get up to speed on the research, you'll realize what these tube site owners are obviously doing to everyone by wanting these longer clips.

Reality is that what they REALLY want is to keep a surfer on their site for longer periods of time.
Time spent on the site for each surfer is a BIG way that Google determines site rank for keywords. It shows that "yes" the site MUST be relevant to the search because surfers are spending 10 minutes on the site instead of one minute.

Thus, they have millions of surfers spending lots of time on the site.
That is why they rank above everyone else for search engine traffic. And everyday that goes by just solidifies their ranking on everything.

Anyway. Good luck to everyone. You're gonna need it. :(

Robbie, man, everybody knows you. You're out there. You have a ton of boots on the ground experience, and you straight told Fabian to his face what he was, exactly, and stuck to it when everybody gave you shit. People were writing magazine articles about him, and he was flipping around millions of dollars, and you told him exactly what the truth was.

It isn't easy, for sure. But this is the century of IP. The current tube sites are wild west. They had a chance two years ago to start cultivating producers, but they opted out, reasoning, perhaps, that they could keep the party going just fine on their own.

Why don't you get on board with what TPN is trying to do?

Well, linking to the Join page is missing the point. LOL Actually you link to a thumb-heavy page that then links to the Join. :)

But your other points I agree with and are well-known. I said earlier in this thread that tubes and paysite owners are at cross-purposes when it comes to surfer activity (time on site, etc). So you can either decide to work with the tube affiliates or not to, it really depends on your interest, volume, expectations, etc. Kudos to Czarina for focusing on ROI. :)

Robbie, you are in a unique position with CM. Meaning, you have a fully active partner in her own site, someone who Members can communicate with and know who they are joining. But what if you don't run a solo site with a model willing to do social media, interact with Members, etc? Then what? :helpme

When a guy cums... he's done. Any stripper / cam girl knows that.

You're now discussing retention. That's the magic of interactivity.

I'm talking about your original post and making sales. Specifically that the tube sites are wanting long clips with cumshots and trying to convince you it's in your best interest.

Scientific research shows (and the biggest ad agencies in the world are using it) that the human brain doesn't work like that if you are trying to sell someone something.

The only person those long clips and cumshots benefit are the tube site owner. Why else would they basically be demanding it of you? What do they care if you make sales or not (they don't).
The only thing they care about is eyes on their site. And time spent on their sites.
That equals high search engine relevancy and higher rates they can charge for advertising.

The magic words are, until next time, any sex worker knows that, why they love regulars

Again I agree with you. I would LOVE to see 3-5 minute clips be the only clips seen on a tube site (then the surfer has to pay to unlock the rest). Making paysite sales = shorter clips.

Surprisingly...the research that is being used by major ad agencies indicates that anything over 30 SECONDS will LOSE the sale instead of make it.

It's very interesting stuff. And all you have to do is observe the ads on television to see how it's done.

And no...I'm not saying that porn and mainstream are the same.

BUT, I am saying that ALL human brains work the exact same way.

And I'm also saying that this was your original question:
Explain To Me Why Tubes Require Cumshots

And this is my answer: It makes THEM more money off of your hard work.

Depends on the price. But you are most profitable with longer packages at discounted prices. In other words, it's the supermarket model: smaller package = higher price per amount. You should make the bulk of your revenue from rebills. Shorter membership packages - because they are SHORT - means fewer rebills. You'll end up getting a bunch of users downloading all your content in a short amount of time, then leaving. A lose-lose: you get lower revenue per user, and higher load on your servers.

Works mostly this way. Price affects joins. Updates affect churn rates. So if you notice your churn rates are getting worst, increase updates.

Create a specific niche site, not as a package part of an existing site. explanation below

I would not recommend this. Porn should be a simple product, therefore it should have simple options. When you give users too many options, they freeze up, and don't buy. This behavior has been studied many times. It's why you don't see too many brands of one item at costco. Limit your choices. For example, when joymii.com went from 3 tier pricing, to 2 tier, signups and revenue went up over 15%.


Regarding cumshots:
do an audit of the performance of your tube affiliates. Most tube sites that REQUIRE a cumshot, are probably not great partners. The quality traffic has consolidated so much, you can focus on the partners who care about your content.

Forget about optimising tours until you have the content to optimise it with.

Take what the free product offers and then make sure the bought product offers a lot more. That can't be done by cutting up the usual content to make it look better. Because as Robbie says after 30 seconds something kicks in. Either the impulse to stay jerk off or to move onto the next clip hoping it will be better. The number who go to the tour after 30 seconds is too small to count.

Getting them to click on your link of type in the domain after they've come is the key. And here's the clue.

How to reproduce this on a site with many models. Just do what Robbie and CM do in a lesser way. Forget about the model we did in offline, a 20 minute scene, open, action, cum shot and credits. Tubes have millions of them for free and no paysite will ever be able to compete on that level.

The day users can't find a video they haven't seen on a Tube and will pay for it? Is so far away it's not a discussion.

How many here sell porn where the models are more than another person fucking? Just an anonymous body pounding away at herself or being pounded away at?

The consumers of this style of porn are more than satisfied with Tubes. A few years ago a big company boasted how well they were doing with Tube traffic. The conversion ratio on clicks was acceptable. The conversion ratio on views was just over 1-36,000 and that's the only ratio that matters.

The videos were excellent and fitted the niche and style, so the number of people who clicked on it and clicked back was low. Their videos had a very high score Even at 50% "satisfaction" they were losing 17,999 viewers to convert one.

Why was obvious, The content had nothing to entice a click on the banner and the tour showed the site was $30 for what any Tube offers for free, a daily jerk off. And that's always been the number one reason for buying porn. Even when I was painting wall murals in Roman Villas. LOL

Agreed.

The "sale" point on a Tube is someone reaching for the lube.

Most annoying when there is a "story" with some kind of dialogue :1orglaugh

I bet that little GIF that Captain posted would get more click thrus than any 10 minute video

You are 100% correct.

you guys know that you don't HAVE to upload clips longer than 3 - 5 minutes right? Just because a tube WANTS you to, doesn't mean you have to. Nor do you HAVE to give them a cumshot, or HAVE to skip clothed intros etc. You want views, or you want sales? One does not necessarily include, or preclude, the other...

yea nothing i stopping you from uploading watermaked 30 sec clips. some tubes accept pretty much anything.

The amount of people who want to view 30 second unedited tube clips could fill an undersized shoe closet in tokyo..

Actually it would be interesting to try this for a month and see the results. Some tubes would just reject the clips while others would simply preclude them from reaching the Homepage. So the benefit would be for searches. But if a producer has a ton of longer videos already on the tubes then those longer clips would have to be removed. Most tubes would not like getting an email saying "Please remove these 853 clips over 5:00 minutes..."

Agreed. :)

"Viewing" isn't something you should be interested in.

Weird... as the stats show that Tube traffic value continues to decline I see an inverse rise in the ratios for agreeing with Robbie... :winkwink:

Interesting, isn't it?

I think if you run unique sites (the only kind that are still around and active, for the most part) in certain niches you're better off without the mass exposure a tube offers. Social media, interactivity, emails, etc can bring better results. But if you run more generic porn sites - you know, people just plain ol' fucking - then tubes can be beneficial.

But let's not under estimate the value of branding a tube site can bring a paysite. Would Blacked or Fake Taxi have been as huge without tube exposure?

Don't know the answer to Blacked. And I don't know what is considered "huge" these days.

But for Fake Taxi the answer is "no" it would not have.

If anyone but JT had done Fake Taxi and didn't have the connections he has as far as selling YouPorn to MindGeek and now having all of his properties "managed" by MindGeek they wouldn't have had the same results.

His vids get preferential treatment first off because of his associations. And now secondly because MindGeek is managing the sites for him. And what that means is they are aggressively going after other pirate tubes and pulling his shit off of them while keeping his clips up in the first few pages always.

You or I could have shot the same exact site exactly the same way...and it would have went nowhere. Even if we submitted the same exact clips to the tube sites. That's just the way all business works.

As I said earlier....if you can get enough views (in the tens of MILLIONS) you are bound to get some sales (throwing shit against the wall...something sticks)

But most paysites find their stuff buried on the tubes and that's just like being on the tenth page of Google for your search terms. Useless.

Anyway, I hope that you are able to figure out your next move. And I hope that some of the people reading this thread came away with some good ideas and concepts.

Not many business threads left anymore since so many people are kind of out of business (especially affiliates)

People love cumshot movies, and if the certain traffic likes a certain girl, clip or style of filming, people click to the site for more content from the model or company, as preference to that tube clip, as with any other niche :2 cents:

I have a question about your content - I get the impression that you mainly buy cheap non-exclusive stuff, and if that is actually the case then what is retention like once they get there? Branding may help get them there but what keeps them once they see the same stuff the tubes probably already own? Or is the play to just count on the boost in cam rev or cross sells?

Well most of my stuff is older content yes but I also have some sites with brand-new HD content. With close to 100 paysites there's bound to be a big mix. LOL

But to answer your question: My rebills are around 2-3-4 months but again this is because there are so many sites to visit. These days, as users get more and more inundated with sites, devices, etc, the convenience factor is huge. Plus, inside the Members Areas I have several daily-updated HD feeds, massive bonus content, etc (plus an upsell to Homegrown Video!). So it's all good bro. :D

To answer the original question...

If they didn't use them all on tubes... What would they do with all that cum? ;)

Quoted for truth.

:2 cents: :thumbsup ...

I like Felliciua Blow, is that you in those movies? :pimp

Oh God no, that's not me. No one wants to see my teeny peeney. LOL!

In our case, and you know we have been doing this a while, the tube traffic retention is the absolute worst. We have tons of exclusive content and everything these days except for our older "renovated" movies are in HD. We have bonus sections, special updates, etc., pretty much everything you describe except I think, although it might be a false assumption for which I apologize, that we have way more exclusive content. While we get that sort of retention or better on other traffic, the tube traffic is ridiculously bad at this point. Wasn't always that way, used to be worth it for sure, but now is another story so I am surprised to find that you are not experiencing a similar statistical drop.

So bro... are you telling me your retention is that good on your tube traffic because I seriously am ready to call bologna sandwich with mustard and mayo on that...

Well as much as I like boloney sandwiches.....LOL That's not specifically on 'tube traffic', just overall. But when you join one of my sites you get access to all 88+ sites and it takes a long time to visit them all. In fact, I just instituted a one year only option that is KILLING it. The feedback I am getting is there are too many sites to see in one month. I hadn't expected that (if I had I would've offered it years ago).

Also I offer two non-recurring options so rebllls are only half the join options. Those interested in recurring memberships tend to stay a while (or cancel right away, either one).

Tube traffic has become less effective in the past year but this is mostly due to consolidation, I think. Tubes that used to get uploads (and had good conversions) like Spankwire, Pornerbros, YOBT etc are no longer resources. With your stuff, being amateur, I would think it would be harder with tube traffic anyway. The plus side is I'm sure social media and other traffic sources are available to you.

That makes a lot of sense. You certainly are doing many things right just to be around these days. :thumbsup