the problem isnt stand your ground the problem is no knock warrants

its been like that for ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston_shooting

good news free food and rent. :thumbsup bad news is lights out :Oh crap

Oh boy... Rochard is posting his crazy shit that doesnt apply to anything again.

Florida has a law called " Knock and Announce " after many court hearings it has been determined that the announce can go with the knock of the door hammer or Frame splitter.

If they DONT Announce they violated the State law. I believe there have actually been arrests of officers for this.

They came in through his window, which probably made noise, which the guy probably heard, at which time he probably grabbed his gun, then opened fire at the moron breaking into his house through a window.

Moral of the story... the cops should have used the damn door and announced themselves, instead of creeping into the guys house through a window at 5:30am.

They should throw more tear gas or real grenades.

If I was on the jury I'd want to know exactly what this guy was seeing and hearing as the officer was coming through the window.


They were executing a warrant based on hearsay. They obtained info from a third party that there was a little cocaine in the house and decided to raid. I'm assuming this is legal, but should it be?

IMO they should have to know as a 100% fact that the illegal material is (or believe it to still be) in the house.

Agreed they should have to stakeout or bust several buyers from the house before they can raid it. Then they should knock and announce themselves before busting in the door and windows. It sounds too simple to be a proper solution. They'd rather pay confidential informants for questionable information.

Shocking that anyone supports cops busting peoples door down over drugs. Whether they exist or not.

Well, it's illegal to have drugs in the house and cops don't like waiting until you're gone. They have all that fancy equipment and they like using it.

Fucking your woman in the ass is also illegal in some states. You support cops busting doors down in those cases too?

I suppose if they have a search warrant they can bust the door down if I don't open it. I'm not sure butt fucking is a felony charge though.

This is an excellent example of why all drugs should be legal.

Back to the point. If they thought there was a lot of drugs in the house why would they climb through a window like a burglar? It seems justified by texas law.

Well said!

Yes.. and they shoot dogs summarily as a matter of course upon entering. It's SOP.
Fucking Police States of America!!!

You seriously do not understand the fact that guns that are not loaded are fancy hammers!!! (There is no time to load, when seconds count)
Guns in the house for protection should be loaded unless there are reasons to keep them unloaded. (kids etc....) in which case they should be kept safely yet accessible for defense.
He is legally allowed to have a loaded gun, Your reasoning sucks.

Home invasions happen all the time, good reason to shoot somebody.
Home invaders are smart enough to yell "Police" when the come through the door.

Yes this!!!

They were serving a search warrant, not an arrest warrant.

They go in at 5am in the morning because they are expecting problems and want everyone to be sleeping so they are disoriented when they enter, do not put up active resistance, and do not flush their stash down the crapper. Obviously he was not disoriented when they entered.

I know, that's why i said they could wait for him to leave, then take their time searching the house. If they found drugs or whatever in their search they could arrest him at their leisure in a safe environment, like while he's at work or when he returns home.

Unless there is something saying the person has to be home for them to perform the search. I dont see why that would be the case.

You are missing multiple issues here....

First is they want to catch him with the drugs, not find the drugs at his house when the main suspect is at 7-11 getting a slurpee.

Second, even if he leaves the house they still have to serve the search warrant, and they still go in gun blazing expecting issues.

Third, you are also assuming they could "arrest him later in a safe environment". When you say "safe environment" do you mean when they attempt to serve an arrest warrant at his work place when he is armed? Or do you mean when he shows up to find his front door busted open and six people going through this stuff?

I'm sorry, but when police are expecting problems, resistance, or gun play they go in at 5am with flash bangs hoping to surprise everyone and catch them off guard. When you have two armed parties going into a confrontation sometimes the shit is going to hit the fan.

The police did nothing wrong, they were serving a legal warrant. At the same, the man shot a police officer who was doing his job.

Why? If the drugs are in his house he is responsible. Unless there is some strange law that says the suspect has to be home when the search is performed. I don't see why that would be the case.

Ya, but I think there will not be as many issues when there is no one home. lol. Do you think they can't do some surveillance on the place or investigate a little to determine who is in the house?

I mean just about any situation that doesn't involve busting through a window like a burglar. Hell, a regular traffic stop would do the trick. Wait for him to get in his vehicle at his parking lot at work then box him in and draw down on him with their guns. Just about any scenario I could think of is safer than crawling through a window at 5 am. That's why there's a dead cop and 3 others shot. Do you really think this guy was just some insane cop killer that would kill any cop who farted in his general direction? Or do you think maybe he thought he was being robbed?


That seems to be working out great for them.

Stunning (well kind of) that some people (well 1 or 2) seem to think that if cops break into your house, it means you ARE guilty of something. Also that if you disagree, you are a conspiracy theorist.

I guess we'll be getting the announcement soon that the US no longer needs a Judicial system at all.

They was after black folks again

How about arresting him while he's getting into his car on his driveway. Voila.

The truth is they just don't want to wait. It's inconvenient to wait for the right time.

They can think about that at the closed casket funeral I guess.

Ummm your live by the sword die by the sword can be applied to the SWAT team members as well... Don't want to get shot in the face? Well don't execute a no knock warrant in the middle of the night by climbing through someone's window...

Let's go wild here and say that he did have cocaine in his house. Maybe he did the day before, who knows.

Is using a SWAT team at 5:30 AM in the morning, running the risk of someone getting killed (police, animals, children, target, neighbor, ANY ONE) as Rochard pointed out with his defense argument, really worth the reward of busting a guy with cocaine? Really?

I run my risk vs reward analysis different than the Killeen Police Department. Wasted resources, wasted life, and wasted goodwill.

nice email [email protected]

The swat guys want to keep their jobs. They'll be downsized if they run out of doors to bust down. Also, we can't have our kids replacing their adderall with cocaine.

Y'all should get rid of guns off the streets completely like the UK, fucking loonies.

Knock on my door and you live. Come in through my window, and you die. Zero hesitation.

Damn the consequences, police or no police.

Or stupid motherfuckers could just stop climbing through the window.

:2 cents:

this is a good excuse for the cops to continue their militarization. prolly get some drones to handle this sort of no knock warrant execution. It will go through the window no probs, take out the dogs with some drone weapon and zap the big bad doper.

Someone entering my home without identifying themselves as a LEO with a warrant first or being invited in is going to be met with deadly force as I will be in fear for my life and I am hard of hearing also. Prove I wasn't in fear or I could hear them announce themselves.

Home Invasions happen all the time in this area and it is not the Police usually. Sometimes the victims are injured, there have been a couple fatalities in the last few years. Sometimes the perpetrators are caught, shot, or even killed.

Because his attorney will argue he was no at home and had no knowledge of any illegal wrong doing found in his house when he wasn't there. It might be a long shot, but it forms the bases of doubt.

They most likely did so some surveillance.

I'm not sure about you, but I don't want my local PD blowing through $40k of overtime in a single week just to they can have five officers at at time watching the house 24/7 for a week.

No matter what, no matter how long they watch the house, if they have reason to suspect firearms in the house they are going to go in hot and heavy. It's standard practice for law enforcement.

The search warrant was for the house, not the car.

You are saying a "regular traffic stop" would have done the trick, but that is not the case at all. Police most likely knew he was armed, and forcing a full felony stop in public with guns drawn on a suspect they already know is armed should be a last resort in the interests of public safety. I don't want gun battles on my street. Hit 'em fast and catch them off guard.

In fact, it is working out great. How many warrants are served a year nationwide, and how many incidents do we have? I have no clue - how many warrants are served a year? Ten thousand? One hundred thousand? Then compare how many issues we've had - I can only think of two in the past year, this one and the baby.

If the mother fucker has a long and violent criminal record and is believed to be armed with an AR15, then yes.

Then you fucking move.

Common sense tells you that you need to live in a place with a low crime rate. (And when you get older, you look into local schools too.) When I first moved to California to live with my girlfriend in 1989, she wanted to live in the Castro Valley / Hayward area. Some quick research told me that twenty miles away over the hill had a much lower crime rate. Same thing when I moved back to California - I had to move to a certain area for Playboy and picked the safest one.

If you have a choice between arming yourself because you live in a high crime area or living in nice a neighborhood where that shit isn't common... And you pick to live in the crappy area.... Well, you toss the dice, you arm yourself, and pray that you aren't shooting a police officer, your neighbor, or even worse - your kid who sneaked out - when someone crawls through the window.

Better yet, get an alarm system.

There is no evidence of that anywhere.

Next.

For those of you not familiar with Texas, a very high percentage of the population has guns in their home. Even the women. Women love guns just as much as men. This guy having a 9 mm close to his bed is no different than having a glass of water next to your bed.