Jesus man, get your head out of your ass. Crime happens everywhere, and usually when you least expect it. Sure, it happens more in bad areas, but no one is exempt from having bad shit happen to them no matter how safe their neighborhood currently is.

The fact you are so sure you are safe makes you are perfect target. Just because it hasn't happened to you yet, or someone you know, doesn't mean the worst isn't going to happen tomorrow. There are countless murders, rapes, home invasions, and kidnappings that happen in totally safe areas, all over the world. You're also a possible target any time you leave your house.

Neighborhoods also change. Sometimes they start out nice and they go downhill fast. Goes the other way too.

I could spend 2 minutes on Google and pull up countless reports of horrible shit that happened to people "in the perfect family neighborhood."

They don't care about that. You have the shit in your house and you will be charged. My neighbor down the road got raided for pot and his 70+ year old mother (who lives with him) was also charged. In fact everyone in the house was charged.

Way to exaggerate. Have one guy sitting outside. When he leaves the house radio it in and have them come bust in and do the search. Have one other officer follow him so they know where he is while the house is being searched. Or... they could just bust through the window and get shot all to fuck. I'm not trying to teach cops how to run investigations, I'm just saying there is a better way to do it than busting through windows like the Expendables. You certainly don't need a team of 5 and a week of surveillance to know whether the guy has left his house or not.

No one is arguing any different and saying they shouldn't. The issue here is them busting through a window which clearly made it look like a home invasion.


What are you talking about? They execute the search warrant on the house and look for evidence there. Once they determine he needs to be arrested then they'll arrest him wherever they choose. You don't need a search warrant to arrest a wanted man in a car!???



He probably had the gun by his bedside for protection, like many people do. You are acting like this guy was a crazed gunman looking to off cops if they looked at him sideways. If they blocked the guy in somewhere with multiple guns pointed at his head do you think he is going to get into a gun battle when he knows he'll be killed? Again, the issue here is he obviously thought he was the victim of a home invasion.

Tell that to the cop who got shot in the face and the innocent guy who might be executed by the state for simply defending his home. And I have no idea why you think I have an issue with cops serving search warrants. It's with cops busting through windows and creating what appears to be a home invasion scenario.

I gotta hand it to Rochard - willing to let everyone think he is completely out of touch with reality... willing to let everyone think he misses the point entirely, over and over and over again... willing to come over as a brainwashed subservient sheep - all to get sig views.

You sir, have balls of steel and an evil genius IQ count no doubt - bravo :thumbsup

^ lol....

Good observations and insight my friend, this whole procedure smells fishy.

I didn't read if he got a normal job but even if he didnt he must leave his house sooner or later.

thread's been trolldhard.

First of all, I've probably fired more rounds in this life than you'd fire in 10. So you don't need to school me on guns. I grew up in rural Alaska, my father was a professional hunter and brown bear guide and I had more guns than a small militia by the time I was 13.

My 'reasoning' (not that you'd recognize reason) is the simple point that police coordinate off site, get organized and then move in pretty fast to serve a warrant. He was in an apartment. He was apparently sitting there, ready with a loaded weapon and opened fire as he saw them approaching the window and shot the first SWAT guy in the face as he came through the window and then kept shooting at others.

How fucking psychotic are you people that you rush to defend a guy who is sitting with a loaded weapon in his apartment and then just opens fire on anyone? Of course your "reasoning' also requires you to insist they didn't announce who they were and were not wearing identifying clothes which happens exactly never when SWAT teams serve high risk warrants.

You guys are so fucking eager to argue an insane point that you completely ignore the fact that he was in an apartment, not a house. If he saw them coming, he knew who they were. If he shot them as they broke his window and before they announced who they were, he had no legal right to do so. If he shot them after they announced who they were, he's still wrong. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, you don't get to legally open fire through the window/wall of an apartment to kill people outside.

Again, the entire point is to catch the person with the drugs.

Great, your neighbors were all charged - but how many of them were found guilty and went to prison?

The entire point of police doing their job is do it correctly, not to give an attorney a chance to plant the seed of doubt.

[QUOTE=MrBottomTooth;20231148

Way to exaggerate. Have one guy sitting outside. When he leaves the house radio it in and have them come bust in and do the search. Have one other officer follow him so they know where he is while the house is being searched. Or... they could just bust through the window and get shot all to fuck. I'm not trying to teach cops how to run investigations, I'm just saying there is a better way to do it than busting through windows like the Expendables. You certainly don't need a team of 5 and a week of surveillance to know whether the guy has left his house or not.
[/QUOTE]

They don't have "one guy" outside watching the house. You have to watch the house for days to figure out who is in it, and what their routine is going to be,.

And it still doesn't matter because they want to catch him in the house with the drugs, not find the drugs without him there.

A home invasion doesn't go through a window, it goes through the front door. You want to gain access for multiple people as quickly as you can, not have them climb through a window one at a time.

How do you not understand this?

Which is going to be better and safer - Police catching him off guard while he is sleeping or doing a full felony stop with an armed man in public?

Police want the suspect quickly on the ground in matter they choose, not to give the chance for a car chase that leads through a school zone. (This happened to my kid's high school last week.)

[QUOTE=MrBottomTooth;20231148]
He probably had the gun by his bedside for protection, like many people do. You are acting like this guy was a crazed gunman looking to off cops if they looked at him sideways. If they blocked the guy in somewhere with multiple guns pointed at his head do you think he is going to get into a gun battle when he knows he'll be killed? Again, the issue here is he obviously thought he was the victim of a home invasion.
/QUOTE]

Typically police do a no knock raid when the suspect has a violent history or is expected to be armed. My guess is that this guy was always armed and police knew it.

And like I said.... Police serve countless warrants on a regular basis and there are so few issues....

To me I see police trying to do their job. They had a suspect, they thought they had a valid reason, and they served a warrant. It sounds odd they went though a window from a tactical view point the would want to enter the house from multiple access points and we don't know the details. I am pretty confident they all yelled police and yelled out that they had a warrant when they entered.

What point am I missing?

I've noticed there are two kinds of people out there.... Those that think cops are pigs, and those who support the police. The difference is usually age and if people have kids or not.

When you are young and single you hate the cops, you fear them; You slam on the brakes every time you see them and hope they don't find your little pot stash.

When you get older you figure out the police are doing their job and trying to protect society. You want police to do their job - You want police catch the robbers so they don't hit your house next, and you want the police to catch the drug dealers because you don't want your fourteen year old kid doing meth.

I live in the 8th safest city in the state of California, and the 58th safest city in the United States. This isn't by accident - I choose where I live for exactly this reason. I don't live in fear of home invasions or being robbed.

If you fear the police, you either haven't grown up, you are doing something wrong, or you have seriously fucked up in life.

Oddly enough years ago at 3am the local cops came banging on my door. I took my time getting downstairs to them, turning on all outside lights before I opened the door. There was four cops there, three of them armed with shotguns. They got a complaint about a "domestic dispute" and our neighbor thought it was at my house.

My wife and I NEVER fight and we were sleeping.

But my wife comes down the stairs and they ask "Miss, is there a problem" and my start ass wife was like "You bet there is a huge problem" and I'm like "oh shit". Then my wife says something like "you need to freaking explain to me why you just woke us up".

Then the police are like "why are your eyes all blurry?". Duh. It's 3am and I was sleeping.

if you've done nothing wrong, you'll never have problems with the police. But if they are doing a no knock raid on your house you know there is a reason for it.

I am in a hotel room in England right now while everyone else figures out what the plan for the day is going to be. I hate waiting.

The point was he had no point :2 cents: :thumbsup

There are these things called Standard Operating Procedures and creeping in through a window unannounced is the farthest thing from that; so no, they weren't doing their job correctly.

And then there are those of us who call bullshit for what it is and don't refuse to realize and call attention to a fuck up when it occurs.

Supporting the police doesn't mean ignoring when they break their own rules, put themselves above the law, carry on worse than the criminals they are supposed to be apprehending, etc.

I am. Good riddance pig, and let that be a lesson to the rest of your "brothers".

Tell that to the dead people killed as a result of no knock raids being executed on wrong addresses. Oh wait. You can't. Because they're dead.

http://www.businessinsider.com/9-hor...12-2?IR=T&op=1

What are they all so frightened of ?

learn some history. There you will find that this country was built on guns, liquor and tobacco.

Insecurity.. Seems to be a common thing with certain types of people that own guns. There are normal and sane gun owners whom are responsible and then there are guys that have to have a gun for the living room, a gun for the night stand, a gun for the computer desk ..ect..ect. These are usually the quack-pots that fantasize about shooting someone and becoming the hero of the day..

way to go stereotyping every Texan with a gun.

All of them were convicted of some charge or another. You don't go to prison for first offence pot charges in Canada. At least not back when this happened.



I am so glad you know all the intricacies of police work. With the big military surplus items the police forces are getting these days in the US it would take 5 minutes to see how many people were in the house using thermal imaging.

http://www.bullard.com/V3/products/t...icles/0002.php
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ered-boat.html

You keep missing the point that the method they used to serve the warrant was flawed. I don't care if they served the warrant while he was there or while he was away, you can't serve it by busting through windows like a common criminal. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS THREAD. Cops serving a no-knock warrant through a window are most likely going to get shot.


Ho many burglars do you know that just come right through the front door? Do you think if they would have knocked on the front door and announced they were police with a search warrant things would have went a little better? I do. Coming through a window unannounced makes you look like a thief and ends up getting people shot.


I understand that logic perfectly, I wasn't questioning that. I was questioning why you said "the search warrant was for the house not the car." Where the hell did I suggest they search the car? Your comment made no sense and still makes no sense. You reply to one thing by going off on a tangent about something completely irrelevant to what was being discussed.



All the more reason to not enter the building through a window like a common burglar.


I agree, pretty fucking stupid to go through a window.:disgust

Well you can assume all you want but that doesn't make it true. The whole purpose of these retarded no-knock warrants is to gain surprise and not make your presence immediately known to the suspect. They paid the price this time. And so did the guy who was chilling in bed who hadn't broke any laws and had no reason to be willing to throw his life away just so he could cut down a row of cops.

The bottom line is, police departments are trying to find ways to use that fun new military equipment so breaking down doors and harassing homeowners is the easiest way to play their silly cowboy games.

SWAt raids have increased by 1400 percent since the 80's...and that's only with data up to the year 2000.

This shit needs to stop and a good start would be ending the war on drugs.

The most surprising thing about this whole story is where I see Rochard being quoted as only 46 years old.
I thought he was a LOT older than I am. lol Turns out I'm way older than him.

I guess looks can be deceiving.

Maybe change your diet, get a good exercise regimen or something?

dont blame police if you end up in the middle of a shootout. they let people sell dope :2 cents: problem is assholes blow up the spot trying to take the drugs and money. they have to use military tactics because some of these gangs are military trained.

It would be hilarious if a crew of crooks dressed up in SWAT gear and did a no knock raid of a cop's home. Gee I wonder if the cop would want to defend himself and his family or he would just lay down like a coward and let himself be executed???

You are missing the entire point of making it legal. By making it legal it becomes a business and the illegal types get pushed out of the market. Ie gangs and the types whom cause the most problems.

Just like during probation, the gangs were in that business because making it illegal created massive profits for them. Once it was made illegal the gangs no longer chad the ability to corner that market and now there is only a small demand for illegal product.. Think moonshine..

The same would happen if all drugs were made legal. The market would get cornered by big corporations and the little everyday drug dealers would get pushed out as the demand for illegal product went away..

The problem is there is too much money in the war on drugs, so the cops have to have another way to pay for their toys and keep their budgets expanding every year..

Marking this day down as the day that crockett made perfect sense to me. :)

Militarizing the police and this is what you get. Keep giving them more left overs from the army and they turn into toy soldiers and make war on the public.
They have the same weapons as the military but not the training. It all starts when they stop being a police service and start being a police force.

Yes, but... The cops weren't looking for a small stash of pot; They don't serve no knock warrants for $40 in pot. Most likely he was further up the food chain. He wasn't going to ticket for pot, but instead they expected to throw him in jail for much larger charges.

If you read a little bit more about this, you find out the reason they went in so heavy when he was home was because they had expected to find "bags of cocaine".

I worked as a small arms combat instructor in the military, which included training local police departments.

I am also guessing that the vast majority of towns don't have thermal imaging units.

I didn't miss that point at all. In fact, I said here in this thread that I didn't understand why they could come through the window. For all you and I know maybe both the front and back doors were barricaded so prevent such entry - this is common in drug houses.

Burglars usually don't blow through the front door yelling "Police, we have a warrant".

I said this because you said they could have just pulled him over in his car. I said the warrant for his house, not his car.

Turns out... The warrant was for his house, his car, and his girlfriend's car.

If he broke any laws or not hasn't been revealed yet. Police do not go doing no knock warrants unless they have a good reason to do so. They believed this guy had bags of cocaine in his house. They not only arrested him, but also arrested his girlfriend, and took over 130 items from his house including plastic bags found in the car believed to have transported large amounts of cocaine.

You already know how this is going to go down - Police are going to paint this guy as a massive drug dealer, and the courts aren't going to care what happens to him.

I love lost 28 pounds since Phoenix Forum. I'm working on it.

I don't really care what their reasoning was, going through the window was a bad idea no matter what they thought he was up to. And apparently they found nothing other than a glass pipe and a grinder, which most likely means he liked to smoke a joint once in a while.

How many times did you instruct cops on entering peoples' houses through the windows? I'm guessing that probably never came up, and for good reason.


Maybe the police in Killeen Texas (where the deceased cop was from) should consider buying one. They just blew over $200,000 on 231 assault rifles.

It's easy to see where their priorities lie.

Well that is my whole point. Not sure what you are arguing about then. It was stupid to go through the window. And apparently he was in an apartment complex. There's usually only one entrance to an apartment. If this was a drug house, why didn't they find any drugs? Why would someone barricade the entrance to an apartment that has nothing illegal in it?

Ya, I agree, they come through the windows or other less noticeable entrances like these cops foolishly did.

I clearly said they could arrest him in the car or at work or wherever LATER if they searched his house and found drugs.

This happened way back in May, so it's not like they haven't had time to determine if he should face additional charges. Everything I have read says the worst they could get him for is possession of drug paraphernalia for a glass pipe they found. How many people here have a bong or something in their house? Would a reasonable man knowingly open fire on cops for fear of being charged with possession of drug paraphernalia? This is simply more evidence this guy thought he was being robbed or attacked, etc.

Ya, that is what they will try to do. Unfortunately they don't seem to have any evidence of that other than the word of an informant that turned out to be totally false.

I agree with everything you said. Makes my posting that much less time consuming.


But this one statement is the whole issue that should mitigate what this guy gets if heard by an appellate court. This issue could adjust the outcome of what actually happens to this guy.


Thats leagally speaking. What actually happens, who knows; system is broken in my opinion.


Just Dave

I read so few posts on here but when I do I can almost guarantee there is some idiotic shit in the thread posted by you. How you remember to breathe really blows my mind.

You dumb, sad motherfucker. :1orglaugh

There are very few reasons good enough for no knock warrants and fucking "bags of cocaine" is not one of them.

Also, who gives a fuck what their reasoning is? Obviously they were wrong as they often are. I know they blew through my door in my teen years because they thought my pothead roommates were selling weight with no fucking reason to believe such a thing. They found some fucking seeds in the carpet, no charges pressed.

But those were the good old days when cops announced who in the fuck they were instead of climbing in a window. I'm sure there were still idiots defending their ridiculous actions back then though, some things never change.

the funny part is that even though one of the good guys died due to a fucked up decision that no-knock warrants for bags of cocaine is the correct way to go, the supposed cop fans, for want of a better word, are so entrenched in their 'what authority says goes' mindset that the death of a total innocent still isn't enough to plant a seed of doubt that maybe just maybe this was a bad way to do things.

Maybe in the old days the higher-ups realised that an announcement and 100% clarity that it was cops at the door was important to ensure no cops were shot in the line of duty due to the very real possibility the criminal thought he was under attack from another criminal(s). Maybe they thought that was more important than losing a conviction due to some guy flushing coke down the toilet.

I mean really, what's the justification that force can give for a police officer dying while climbing through a window - well mrs.widow & children - the price was well worth it, because the guy who we didn't find any drugs on, could have flushed them *if* he actually had any. Don't worry though, the guy who killed your husband/dad is going to be executed.

Seems a great trade '_'