That's why I have Crockett Science on ignore. I post facts and he calls me names.

President Obama had the full power of the government in his hands. He had a democrat controlled congress and all he could get done was Obamacare. He got it using lies and just the democrats. He has severely hurt his party.

Now he wants to bypass congress and with a signature change federal law.

It doesn't even matter why he is doing it, it's wrong the way he is doing it.

By far the worst president in the last 100 years.

I served in the military to protect the constitution and this asshole is pissing on it, FUCK HIM!

Honestly, I had never heard of Gruber before. If what he's saying is true then obviously its bad. No matter what, I just hope more people get healthcare.

I had never heard of him before either.
It was one of the things that really disappoints me from 2009.
I voted for Obama in 2008.
He promised that the entire health care law was going to be 100% transparent and that it would be televised on CSPAN so the American people could watch it being created and there would be a website for citizens to comment and make suggestions, etc.

That whole promise turned out to be a lie. :(

That's why you and I had never even heard of Gruber before. The damn thing was done in secrecy all the way. :(

Crazy how people can have such a strong opinion on something that they don't know the actual facts about. On either side. Obama Care is not what everyone thinks it is. Most people only know little bits and pieces, not saying I know it all but I can say the worst parts are barley ever mentioned. That being said, carry on...

I think one of the worst parts IS the fact that nobody really understands this law. Not even our so-called Congress who passed it.

And this guy Gruber, sitting there and smirking and laughing about how they kept everything hidden from the American people is a travesty.

He was paid $392,000 for his "work"

By Most people, are you talking about the people that signed it?

I'm talking about people on both sides, mainly the public. Do you think the reason more than 250,000 doctors said they will not except Obama care is because they are all hard core republicans? Not only is it screwing over the average person but it is destroying our health care system.

I have stated all of this here years ago, and everyone laughed.

Anyway, I'm done with these types of threads. People will get what they deserve in the end.

Gruber basically said obama care is a tax so others can have free or subsided health care. I'll bet, with few exceptions, those here in favor of obama care are receiving subsidized coverage and those against are paying for it.

No matter what people say I'll bet I'm 90% right about this.


,

I'm with you, I talked to my doctor and he didn't want anything to do with it.

The government just put the insurance companies in charge of the medical profession

I have not been following any of this because I don't live there, but if that is true... :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh Wow.

So they passed Obama Care, exempted themselves from it, and the American people just sat back and was OK with that?

You get the government you deserve. :2 cents:

It's not true. He just heard a Fox News talking point and repeats it.

The insurance companies (which Goldman Sachs predicts will gain 60% in value) want you to think that people against are rich greedy jerks and people for it are poor greedy freeloaders.

This is not true. While Americans are getting all mad at each other, our access to healthcare is decreasing and rising in cost.

Todays American citizens tend to vote for their own self interest. I'm sticking with my theory.


.

you assume every voting american was informed of this and each and everyone sat back and did nothing.

besides, obamacare wasn't up for a vote, it's not like the american people had any influence on it whatsoever anyway.

so no, we don't get the government we deserve.

No the worst part about this, is that once again, you take GOP manufactured talking points hook line and sinker. The simple fact is Republicans just wanted to waste yet more tax money trying to fight Obama care for the 20th or 30th time..

So what do they do? They use 2 year old video to manufacture fake drama because they understand people like you will only listen to the sound bites the media gives you. They know you won't do anything like watch his full talk to understand what he was saying. They depend on you being ignorant and uninformed just like this guy said you were..

Now we can sit back and watch Boner and the Republicans in Congress waste even more money trying to repel a law that the courts have said several times now it just fine. Meanwhile nothing will change except the bill that the tax payers have to pay for due to this witch hunt that goes no where.

All because you people just listen to 20 second sound bites and get your little fake outrage on.

I really wonder how many more times you will feel the need to tell everyone that you have me on ignore.. Meanwhile you always seem to know what I post.. Do you want a cookie because you have me on ignore and still read everything I post?

What is wrong with you crockett?

"I" didn't "take GOP manufactured talking points". I linked to CBS News.
This is being reported on all the news stations. And this morning it was on MSNBC as well (better late than never I suppose).

The "Republicans" are not the ones doing anything here.

This is the Obama Administration.

You seem to always think that when the Democrats pull some kind of shit...it's somehow the Republican's fault for pointing it out.

And of course, you are still obsessed with ME...instead of addressing what Gruber actually said. And of course you never, ever talk about what Pres. Obama PROMISED about Health Care in the first place.

Forget all the lies he told about the actual law...just address the FACT that he promised to make the actual writing of the law "transparent" and have it televised live on CSPAN.
And instead we got his administration deliberately keeping Americans in the dark about the whole thing so they could ram it through Congress as stealthily as possible ("we have to pass it before we can read it")

Doesn't ANY of that bother you at all?

Or are you just gonna continue to ignore it and instead keep ranting about "Republican talking points" even though the video speaks for itself and I linked to a very liberal news organization (CBS News).

crockett, you are on the 100% WRONG side of this argument if you are somehow defending what was done and this guy Gruber laughing about how they did it.

My insurance renewal just came in the mail today -- it's through the ''Obamacare'' exchange. (High risk pool.)

11.38% increase. So, I don't see the effective cost control. Shadowstats shows a 4% to 6% inflation rate and not the 2% rate the government stats show. That said, the medical inflation rate is 2 times the Shadowstats rate and 5 times the official rate.

I think what is happening here is that Medicare and Medicaid are paying less than what services cost and private payers (the insured) are being made to pay the difference. So it's a lose-lose for the consumer: Higher taxes or higher insurance costs. The middleman (insurers) are guaranteed a profit -- they can't lose.

Crockett is such an idiot, I'm glad the rest of the country is wising up. With a supreme court hearing about Obamacare next year and the congress being taken over by the GOP and one last thing, Obama saying fuck you to the new congress by going the route of an executive order for immigration. I mean what the fuck does that asshole think he is, I have to wonder if he was stoned during his classes about constitutional law?

I'm obsessed with you.. Meanwhile you call me out in the title and then try to thrash me in your first post. All the while pretending you are mr innocent of all wrong doing and expecting me to feed you answers you want to hear.

Vendzilla once again addressing someone he has on ignore.. Things that make you go Hummm. :1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I can't wait to see you both going off on the next big GOP talking point, which will be impeaching Obama. Of course you will link to an article on CBS or MSNBC to claim it wasn't a Fox News Right winger idea..

What is my "wrong doing"?

I called you out in the title because I wanted to hear your opinion on what this guy said.

So far you haven't given one. You have not yet said whether you think Pres. Obama's main man on health care is a great guy or a piece of shit.

You just keep talking about Fox News, Republican Talking Points, and ME.
None of which have anything at all to do with the subject.

The only "wrong doing" that is in this thread is what was done in the writing of the Affordable Health Care Act.
And the video has THE guy laughing about how they tricked everyone into it.

Today, even most hardcore liberals on the news (including MSBNC!) are pissed about this...Except you apparently.

You're still deflecting, spinning, and making excuses for what is inexcusable.

You still think this is "team sports" and are rooting for your "team" instead of paying attention to what is really happening.

I posted a quote from the guy, then the actual video footage, and the link to CBS News...and you still think I'm repeating "Republican talking points"!!!

I never quoted any Republicans or any "conservative" new sources or websites. Yet you still are carrying on about those unrelated things and you still haven't addressed the issue.

I see Crockett posted twice after me, so he's saying shit, well his head is full of shit, so that's no surprise. I won't open his posts. I just get to see what he says when Robbie calls him out for being an idiot.

Anyone that would back Obama now after he has planned to go around Congress to change federal law can just leave

Give up Robbie, he's proud of deflecting, avoiding, and being a troll.


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You don't care about my opinion or anyone else's, you just want to talk about yours. I've told you what I think but that isn't good enough because I don't agree with you. Now you want to spend the next 10 pages telling everyone how wrong I or anyone that disagrees with you is.

Anyone that doesn't agree with you is always deflecting or this or that..

Meanwhile as I showed in example of Benghazi, it didn't matter how many investigations there were that said no wrong doing happened you still claim there was and everyone else is wrong, but of course that's different..

It doesn't matter the subject, it's the same story in every topic..


Meanwhile you totally glossed over the point I made on the first page. What difference does it matter what this guy said? Nothing is going to change, we will still have Obamacare and there will still be over 7 million people enrolled and that number is about to jump significantly due to open enrollment starting again.

So in the end, what does it matter what this guy says or that guy said.. Do you think if a 10 year old tape from a Bush admin staffer was released today talking about dirty shit in the Patriot Act.. Do you think it would have any change in anything other than a bunch of media hoopla like this?

It is based on humanity not money. the idea of the money is that once we all sign up it will be more efficient. That is a hope not a fact.

You still can't even say a single good thing about Obama. So how can I take anything you say seriously as you just want to hate. Meanwhile I've said things I disliked about Obama ( not just fluff but on serious topics ) and I even said things I liked about Bush jr in the past, despite me thinking he sucked overall.

I'm trolling you guys, because you can't see past your hate, to have reasonable conversations. This to me shows that it's not worth actually debating you guys because you will never get past your hate, hence no chance that you will potentially see the other side of an argument as valid.

I've given you concessions about various things yet you just hate and I'm the one with out the open mind.. The most ironic thing is Obama is actually to the Right of Reagan, but you guys are soo far out in never never land that you can't see the Forrest for the trees.

What the fuck are you babbling about? How is the subject me & obama? Again, you deflected answering the only question this thread is addressing. Now you, the master of hate is trolling me about hate? WTF is wrong with you?

Go ahead and get the last babbling word in like you always do, fucking troll.

You are the one that keeps saying over and over how "I" will never say anything bad about Obama or Democrats. You say this over and over again in various topics. I called your bluff and now you do nothing but deflect or ignore that fact that you are just a hater.

How was this topic about me saying anything good or bad about democrats or Obama? It wasn't but didn't stop you from bringing it up. I figure turn about is fair play and it just shows you have no real opinion biased on any reason other than your hatred.


Btw despite Reagan claiming way back in the 60s that govt provided healthcare was socialism and he was against it. He still in 1986 expanded Medicare to socialize healthcare..

He after all signed the "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act" into law.. Being the evil socialist he was..

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

crockett you are really making a fool out of yourself in this thread.

I will ask one more time: What do you think about what Gruber said in that video? Especially in the context of what the President promised about televising the writing of the bill on CSPAN and being 100% transparent.

That's not "talking points" and it's not "Fox News" or anything else. It's not me "giving my opinion" either.

I'm asking you straight up about what you make of this situation. Nothing about Republicans, nothing about "talking points". Just the President's own words from 2008/2009, the resulting manner in which the bill was written and passed, and the words coming straight from the mouth of Gruber.

That is the topic of this thread.

Please act civilized and tell us what you think.
Are you "stupid" like Gruber called you because you're one of the people who fell for it?
Or do you think Gruber is a piece of shit?
Or are you of the persuasion that you think it's the right thing to do?

I've already told you what I thought. If you can't read what has already been written, writing it again will not help you find the answer you want to hear..

Meanwhile you once again dodge the point I brought up about what difference does it make? The end of the day what matters is does it work... Seems most people seem to think so.. Of course these are people that "actually" have Obamacare, not bitter angry republicans.. Newly Insured Through Exchanges Give Coverage Good Marks

And pile this one on... In U.S., 55% of Uninsured Plan to Get Health Coverage

You are fighting a losing battle..

Pretty sure he answered it on page one but since you were too busy giving your fellow Republicans (oh sorry, the new name you guys go with is Libertarian's) a circle jerk I'll answer.

And to start a question for you… Did you even take the time to watch the full video? Or just skip to the 18 min mark and watch the sound bite on all the major news sites? Kind of important as it puts into context the major point you have such an issue with.

Yeah he called the American voter stupid. And yeah he's correct. The American voter is stupid. Not sure how that is a debate. We're the only first world country where man made climate change is even in debate. A ridiculous percentage believes in fairies for gods sake. This guy is a MIT professor of economics. He's smarter than you and everyone on this board. And he's a hell of a lot smarter than 99% of the Republicans in congress.

As with all bills if you want to get it passed you cannot be transparent. Taxes don't go over well, no matter how much you need them. This is true for all politics, not simply the ACA. Hell this goes for everything, including adult sites. Transparency doesn't sell. Promoting the positive sells. They believed in the bill and wanted to get it passed. They knew that if the CBO labeled the bill as a tax it stood no chance of passing. So they wrote it differently. The only mistake Gruber made was explaining how American politics works. And ironically now all of the stupid people that he was referencing are up in arms.

And the ACA is a good start. Is it perfect? No. But the main intent is to get US citizens who are not covered, covered and provide preventative care. This lowers health care costs over time. Factor in the exchanges and the citizens right to choose between companies and rates will eventually lower. Yes, the more affluent may have to pay more initially, but the entire populace covered and getting preventative care is good for the country and economy. Instead of working to repeal the law, congress should be working together to make the law better. Providing access to preventative health care for the segment of the population that cannot afford it is good for the country.

And for the question brought up by your circle jerk partner earlier. I did not receive a subsidy. I was paying $1600 a month for a family of 5 before. I used the NV exchanges and am now paying $1285 and have a much better plan. I could have chosen a similar plan for $870, almost half what I was paying. I know many people with similar circumstances.

Gruber's full quote referencing stupidity…

Dude, they ARE the idiot rabble obama is counting on

That sucks that happened to you. 11+% is a big hike.

In point of fact, the price on healthcare and health insurance is going up for everyone. The insurance companies are making out like the bandits they are and meanwhile Americans are all being convinced that their woes are being caused by some other socioeconomic class.

Where did you go to school that you are sure everyone on this board must be mentally inferior to an MIT Econ prof?

I know a lot of artists who don't have the money for insurance and don't want to be forced onto welfare. Some people like a handout and some don't.

I know a lot of high income progressives with cubicle jobs who simply believe ACA is helping people and they are happy to do their part. Some people like to give charitably and some don't.

The problem is that the charity here is going to big business insurance companies and poor people get fined for being poor unless they are happy to be a burden on the system.

No, incorrect

They sold it on the idea of being based on humanity, the fact was it was always about the money.

They lied to us, Obama lied to us. This guy Gruber just confirms it a little more.

What do you think is going to happen to our insurance costs when Obama makes all these illegal aliens citizens and they go on Obamacare?

You have a reliance you would like to share?

Just a point of info; I have several people in this thread on ignore and I know what they are saying because people like you quote them.

I hope that enlightens you a little. It's not crockett science.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That made me giggle out loud like a schoolgirl. :)

Mission accomplished.

Thanx for educating him

Let's keep in mind that the CBO's own numbers admit that no more people will have insurance than before this BS started.

Oh, except we've given up control and untold billions to the government for crappier healthcare than we had before

Yes I understand this, however it's pretty clear he is really worried about what I say, despite telling everyone constantly that I'm on his ignore..

Think about it, do you run around every topic telling everyone who you have on ignore that they are on ignore.. LoL it's really kinda silly. He's too worried about what I say to have me on ignore, otherwise he wouldn't still be constantly referencing me.

I just find it amusing..

you wrote this like you think intelligence is a factor in who gets to vote, worse, you make it out like you're one of the ones who gets to decide that. FYI, voting rights have nothing to do with intelligence. or Race, or gender, etc.


not to mention you think it's OK for politicians to not only play on that, but to play on that after making a campaign promise not to.

are you sure you're one of the smarty pants? I'm not so sure you should be voting if your intelligence leads you to vote for this sort of shenanigans and justify that with a soap box post.

Love how if I disagree with you its now a soapbox post. :1orglaugh

And no I don't think intelligence is a factor in who has the right to vote. Actually I was saying the exact opposite. Anyone 18+ can vote, with the majority of them being morons. I cannot believe anyone would actually argue that point. I mean the OP openly admitted in another thread that he knew nothing about the Judge candidates on the ballot so voted for the female every time he could. :1orglaugh

Still looking for an answer to my question, What do you think will happen when Obama uses his executive order to pardon 5 million illegal aliens and then end up on Obamacare?

it came across soap boxy :winkwink: but I'll take your word on how it was meant. I see now the point you were making.