You are the one that keeps saying over and over how "I" will never say anything bad about Obama or Democrats. You say this over and over again in various topics. I called your bluff and now you do nothing but deflect or ignore that fact that you are just a hater.

How was this topic about me saying anything good or bad about democrats or Obama? It wasn't but didn't stop you from bringing it up. I figure turn about is fair play and it just shows you have no real opinion biased on any reason other than your hatred.


Btw despite Reagan claiming way back in the 60s that govt provided healthcare was socialism and he was against it. He still in 1986 expanded Medicare to socialize healthcare..

He after all signed the "Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act" into law.. Being the evil socialist he was..

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

crockett you are really making a fool out of yourself in this thread.

I will ask one more time: What do you think about what Gruber said in that video? Especially in the context of what the President promised about televising the writing of the bill on CSPAN and being 100% transparent.

That's not "talking points" and it's not "Fox News" or anything else. It's not me "giving my opinion" either.

I'm asking you straight up about what you make of this situation. Nothing about Republicans, nothing about "talking points". Just the President's own words from 2008/2009, the resulting manner in which the bill was written and passed, and the words coming straight from the mouth of Gruber.

That is the topic of this thread.

Please act civilized and tell us what you think.
Are you "stupid" like Gruber called you because you're one of the people who fell for it?
Or do you think Gruber is a piece of shit?
Or are you of the persuasion that you think it's the right thing to do?

I've already told you what I thought. If you can't read what has already been written, writing it again will not help you find the answer you want to hear..

Meanwhile you once again dodge the point I brought up about what difference does it make? The end of the day what matters is does it work... Seems most people seem to think so.. Of course these are people that "actually" have Obamacare, not bitter angry republicans.. Newly Insured Through Exchanges Give Coverage Good Marks

And pile this one on... In U.S., 55% of Uninsured Plan to Get Health Coverage

You are fighting a losing battle..

Pretty sure he answered it on page one but since you were too busy giving your fellow Republicans (oh sorry, the new name you guys go with is Libertarian's) a circle jerk I'll answer.

And to start a question for you… Did you even take the time to watch the full video? Or just skip to the 18 min mark and watch the sound bite on all the major news sites? Kind of important as it puts into context the major point you have such an issue with.

Yeah he called the American voter stupid. And yeah he's correct. The American voter is stupid. Not sure how that is a debate. We're the only first world country where man made climate change is even in debate. A ridiculous percentage believes in fairies for gods sake. This guy is a MIT professor of economics. He's smarter than you and everyone on this board. And he's a hell of a lot smarter than 99% of the Republicans in congress.

As with all bills if you want to get it passed you cannot be transparent. Taxes don't go over well, no matter how much you need them. This is true for all politics, not simply the ACA. Hell this goes for everything, including adult sites. Transparency doesn't sell. Promoting the positive sells. They believed in the bill and wanted to get it passed. They knew that if the CBO labeled the bill as a tax it stood no chance of passing. So they wrote it differently. The only mistake Gruber made was explaining how American politics works. And ironically now all of the stupid people that he was referencing are up in arms.

And the ACA is a good start. Is it perfect? No. But the main intent is to get US citizens who are not covered, covered and provide preventative care. This lowers health care costs over time. Factor in the exchanges and the citizens right to choose between companies and rates will eventually lower. Yes, the more affluent may have to pay more initially, but the entire populace covered and getting preventative care is good for the country and economy. Instead of working to repeal the law, congress should be working together to make the law better. Providing access to preventative health care for the segment of the population that cannot afford it is good for the country.

And for the question brought up by your circle jerk partner earlier. I did not receive a subsidy. I was paying $1600 a month for a family of 5 before. I used the NV exchanges and am now paying $1285 and have a much better plan. I could have chosen a similar plan for $870, almost half what I was paying. I know many people with similar circumstances.

Gruber's full quote referencing stupidity…

Dude, they ARE the idiot rabble obama is counting on

That sucks that happened to you. 11+% is a big hike.

In point of fact, the price on healthcare and health insurance is going up for everyone. The insurance companies are making out like the bandits they are and meanwhile Americans are all being convinced that their woes are being caused by some other socioeconomic class.

Where did you go to school that you are sure everyone on this board must be mentally inferior to an MIT Econ prof?

I know a lot of artists who don't have the money for insurance and don't want to be forced onto welfare. Some people like a handout and some don't.

I know a lot of high income progressives with cubicle jobs who simply believe ACA is helping people and they are happy to do their part. Some people like to give charitably and some don't.

The problem is that the charity here is going to big business insurance companies and poor people get fined for being poor unless they are happy to be a burden on the system.

No, incorrect

They sold it on the idea of being based on humanity, the fact was it was always about the money.

They lied to us, Obama lied to us. This guy Gruber just confirms it a little more.

What do you think is going to happen to our insurance costs when Obama makes all these illegal aliens citizens and they go on Obamacare?

You have a reliance you would like to share?

Just a point of info; I have several people in this thread on ignore and I know what they are saying because people like you quote them.

I hope that enlightens you a little. It's not crockett science.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

That made me giggle out loud like a schoolgirl. :)

Mission accomplished.

Thanx for educating him

Let's keep in mind that the CBO's own numbers admit that no more people will have insurance than before this BS started.

Oh, except we've given up control and untold billions to the government for crappier healthcare than we had before

Yes I understand this, however it's pretty clear he is really worried about what I say, despite telling everyone constantly that I'm on his ignore..

Think about it, do you run around every topic telling everyone who you have on ignore that they are on ignore.. LoL it's really kinda silly. He's too worried about what I say to have me on ignore, otherwise he wouldn't still be constantly referencing me.

I just find it amusing..

you wrote this like you think intelligence is a factor in who gets to vote, worse, you make it out like you're one of the ones who gets to decide that. FYI, voting rights have nothing to do with intelligence. or Race, or gender, etc.


not to mention you think it's OK for politicians to not only play on that, but to play on that after making a campaign promise not to.

are you sure you're one of the smarty pants? I'm not so sure you should be voting if your intelligence leads you to vote for this sort of shenanigans and justify that with a soap box post.

Love how if I disagree with you its now a soapbox post. :1orglaugh

And no I don't think intelligence is a factor in who has the right to vote. Actually I was saying the exact opposite. Anyone 18+ can vote, with the majority of them being morons. I cannot believe anyone would actually argue that point. I mean the OP openly admitted in another thread that he knew nothing about the Judge candidates on the ballot so voted for the female every time he could. :1orglaugh

Still looking for an answer to my question, What do you think will happen when Obama uses his executive order to pardon 5 million illegal aliens and then end up on Obamacare?

it came across soap boxy :winkwink: but I'll take your word on how it was meant. I see now the point you were making.

The story is great. All it is... Is the truth coming out and it's not just a Fox News story, I don't read Fox News I saw it on CNN.

Obama lied. He promised everyone free candy to get elected. And it turns out candy can't just be given out for free. It costs money. The people who needed to eat the most candy couldn't get access to it because their ROI is negative, so in return people who don't really need candy had to pay more and people who didn't even want the candy because they didn't need it were forced to buy it to help pay for the others.

But he couldn't come out and say there would be winners and losers and really more losers so he lied and told everyone there would only be winners.

And gruber has now made it clear if they were honest people wouldn't vote to tax themselves, and that in general lack of transparency is an important tool for politicians. That no actually looks behind the curtain to see if people are actually telling the truth or just flat out taking their bullshit at face value.

Is he an arrogant piece of shit or is he just saying the truth? Or both? He isn't wrong, people are sheep, including many in this thread.

Baaaaaaaaah. Baaaaaaaaaah.

If people understood how politicians get elected and how they rise through the political ladder, then they would understand how and why politicians for the most part are huge pieces of shit, on both sides of the aisle.

Career politicians are the worst. Knowing how to get elected doesn't translate into having a skill set in managing policy or other people, let alone monster inefficient government entities.

The problem is that this is not just something to take care of the needy.

Insurance costs more than healthcare.

The reason costs are going up so horribly is to make the insurance industry even richer.

Just taking care of everyone, America could have implanted single payer and saved money.

Yup! Those greedy bastards and their 2-3% profit margins! Obscene.

That is precisely the problem.

Because insurance company margins are mandated to a limited %, the only way they increase profits is by increasing both gross revenues and total claim payouts.

So insurance companies have a vested interest in seeing healthcare costs go up.

ACA adding healthy people to the system means that the insurance companies need to pay out more on claims to meet their requirements, while growing their profits.