Originally Posted by Validus (Post 20296241)

How related are the topics of "lawful gun ownership" and "violent crimes with guns"?

Unless we have proof that supports gun crimes are committed with firearms acquired lawfully - is there an actual connection or does it expose some "marketing" tactics in support of another agenda?

If gun related crime is committed with firearms stolen from those who lawfully acquired them, than the storage and prevention of theft needs to get addressed, not the ownership and rights to have them... or not?

I believe the real issue is homicide rates and then possibly accidental deaths - not gun ownership itself.

Looking at murder rates on Wikipedia, the US is listed as #112 with a rate of 4.7 and Canada has a rate of 1.6 and listed at #170. Switzerland with a gun ownership rate of 45.7 guns per 100 residents, marking it the country ranked #4 for gun ownership, is ranked #206 with a murder rate of 0.6. These numbers seem to indicate that more guns does not = more murders.

The real issue is society or rather societies - the "willingness" to kill another person.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296429)

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296426)

Guns aren't prohibited. There is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership that I am aware of. The debate is whether gun ownership is down or up.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20295348)

here's the thing, gun hater Canadians-

1. USA cannot put the gun genie back in the bottle, please see what happened when we tried that with liqour.

2. this country was built on guns, tobacco, and liquor, you cannot change that history, instead, accept it and move on

3. guns are intrinsically linked to our fundamental rights, as you know.

4. reality.

4. 'Merica, fuck yeah.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20295574)

Old people own guns and they are dying off. Check the stats. The genie is dying, so soon we might be a decent society like the rest of the developed world.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296458)

Unreasonable fear. Your title - "News FBI stats actually prove that more guns = less crime." Or did you forget that?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296464)

...Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20296497)

Here's an idea that might blow some minds...

What if (Just what if), all of the gun violence in America, has nothing to do with guns? What if something else is going?

For example, let's take biased media. When you watch Fox News, the overall picture that is painted by them always seems to be Worry. Panic. Be Afraid. Big Government is taking things away from you. Bad. Scary. Hate for the current president. Disdain. Fear of change.

When you watch MSNBC, the picture they seem to paint is Question. Why. Control from big business. Concern.

Obviously, the effects of both left and right media are very polarizing. Most people are either in 1 camp or the other.

I would argue that the "real news" comes from MSNBC, while the "Bullshit" "news" comes from Fox. I know many here will disagree with me on this but that isn't the point of my post. My point is this: Can the fear, confusion and misinformation put out by right wing media be a cause for a significant amount of gun violence?

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20296497)

all of the gun violence in America,

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296540)

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296543)

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians. :)

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296540)

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_of_death.png

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296543)

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians. :)

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20296562)

I think we should ban cigarettes. Nasty. I smoked for twenty years and I am glad to have that monkey off my back.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296406)

If you're not posting your opinions then WTF is this? It's certainly not factual...

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296429)

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296551)

this would explain why people like ********** don't understand the reality of America and guns. I'm not trolling ********** here, but he is politically inclined and also very current on being updated by the media on politics and politically polarized issues.

remove those biases/controls and more Canadians would be able to see things in a more realistic way.

Originally Posted by trevesty (Post 20296580)

Sales can easily be driven up by individuals buying a new gun all the time.

Back in MO, I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who own over 100 guns.

That doesn't mean that gun ownership is going up, though. That would imply amount of people who own guns is increasing. It does, however, mean that firearm sales are up.

They are two different things.

What was I saying about analyzing data?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296464)

I understand guns are not prohibited. I also understand there is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership. You do not understand that the debate is not whether gun ownership is up or down, the debate here is guns in America.

here is our dialogue-

I posted this:




in reaction to my comment, you posted this:



the genie is not dying. Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296473)

Unreasonable? How so? And what does that have to do with the thread title?

There are more things to fear than violence. Many people are buying guns now because they are afraid that the Government will be taking that right away soon.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296647)

The Feds weren't even able to ban oversized clips. I think if you bought a gun because you are afraid they will be banned, it is easy to prove that was unreasonable.

Like smoking, guns are solving themselves. It is slow but steady.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296642)

...I meant that since the average age of gun owners is older, and they are dying off. Thus gun ownership in America is going down, and we have a safer more normal society...

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296642)

And just a heads up but Canada does not prohibit all gun ownership.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296662)

Because when people die, the guns they own go to heaven with them?

Or, perhaps those guns are passed down to the children and grandchildren? Maybe even sold to dealers who re-sell them to others, both new and current gun owners?

Nah....Those guns vanish...I'm quite sure of it! All the surveys support this so it must be factual.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296737)

Less people own guns. The people who do, own more guns. I am pretty sure this has been established.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296455)

In Switzerland everyone has a gun and no one has ammo. Not saying they can't buy it or anything like that but it makes the numbers goofy.

Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Clay (Post 20295136)

Chart: The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country - The Washington Post

Looks to me like the more guns there are the more death there is. Plenty of charts to back it up

heres one
http://www.motherjones.com/files/ownership-death630.png

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296783)

No, it hasn't been established. It's a bullshit rumor that is perpetuated by people like you.