Originally Posted by bronco67 (Post 20295770)

Your chances of getting shot have definitely gone down, just like you said.

But your chances of shooting someone else have gone up exponentially.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20295183)

Your post implies the FBI stats prove more guns equals less crime, but the report fails to mention anything about background checks or firearm ownership. You are drawing an imaginary line between the two and accepting it as fact.

On top of this, stats seem to indicate gun ownership is down... Drastically.

http://www.people-press.org/files/20...3-12-13-13.png

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/us...anted=all&_r=0
Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNN.com
A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear | Pew Research Center

Over the past forty years, gun ownership is down and violent crime is down. Wouldn't one draw the conclusion that violent crime is down because gun ownership is down?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20295607)

same with liquor during prohibition times. old people died off but liquor was left, trouble and chaos ensued. organized crime was actually created in reaction to prohibition. the Income Tax was created as a result of prohibition. that's just the tip of the iceberg.

it would be even worse with gun prohibition.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20295732)

Here is a pretty interesting article by the Wall Street Journal about the reduction in crime. Violent crime is at a 40 year low. They explore many reasons as to why this might be. Among the suggested reasons are:

1. All the criminals are already in jail. Our incarceration rate in this country is at its all time high. These people can't be committing crimes if they are behind bars.

2. People have gotten better at protecting themselves with alarms, lighting, better locks etc. I suppose you could add owning guns to this one.

3. Police have become more efficient. Many cities are focusing on policing problem areas more intensely and that is helping reduce crime.

4. Medical reasons. Doctors have shown that children with a lot of lead in their system are more likely to be aggressive and violent. EPA standards have helped to lower the average amount of lead in American's blood by four-fifths since 1975.

5. Decreasing crack and cocaine use. Between 1992 and 2009 crack use fell by 66%. In that same time frame the average number of 12th graders who had tried cocaine fell from 9.8% to 5.5%.

The reality is likely that no one of these things has caused the decrease. There could also be other factors at play. I would think all of these factors play a role in it and it is many different things all coming together to lower a crime rate.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20295843)

Gun ownership as a percent of society is down. Not sure why you equate it with drinking.

Originally Posted by arock10 (Post 20295846)

6/7. Abortion legalized in 1973. A ton of unwanted kids were never born and therefore didn't have a chance to commit crimes. The freakenomics guy did a pretty interesting chapter on it

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20295843)

Gun ownership as a percent of society is down. Not sure why you equate it with drinking.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20295235)

I had never given any thought to gun ownership and a quick search provided me with tons of info that gun ownership is down...

The NRA wants us to believe we need firearms to protect ourselves, but the truth is violent is on a forty year downward trend.

Here is another one:

Four Decade Decline In Gun Ownership? : GUNFAQ.ORG

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20295861)

You're wrong. Gun ownership grows every year no matter what any "survey" says. The more crime goes up, the more NEW people buy guns. This is also backed by the number of new firearms trainers who have been popping up throughout the nation.

Here's an article that presents a realistic view of the situation.

Mythbusting: Gun Ownership Is On the Decline in the U.S. - The Truth About Guns

Originally Posted by pompousjohn (Post 20295788)

Well I can't solve everyone's problems...

Originally Posted by trevesty (Post 20296135)

"You're wrong"

*posts link to obvious propaganda link*

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Ah, the bullshit is strong in this one.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296304)

Says the guy who's posting his misguided opinions based on anti-gun propaganda links. :1orglaugh

https://amerinfidel.files.wordpress....pot-kettle.jpg

Ah, the ignorance is strong in this one.

Originally Posted by trevesty (Post 20296306)

I haven't offered my opinion on the topic actually. Projecting maybe? :)

Originally Posted by trevesty (Post 20296133)

Gun ownership is pretty much on a downward spiral.....

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20295861)

You're wrong. Gun ownership grows every year no matter what any "survey" says. The more crime goes up, the more NEW people buy guns. This is also backed by the number of new firearms trainers who have been popping up throughout the nation.

Here's an article that presents a realistic view of the situation.

Mythbusting: Gun Ownership Is On the Decline in the U.S. - The Truth About Guns

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20295885)

I'm not equating it to drinking. I'm using history to compare prohibition to prohibition.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296408)

Crime is down and has been going down for years. So why would more people be buying guns? The USA has the lowest murder rate in my lifetime. Compared to the 70's I live in a paradise crime stat wise. Burglary and and auto theft down over 60%. Murder down 30%. Rape and aggravated assault are not down but that might be that more people report then before. Or so the police say.

Turn off Fox news. The USA is actually a pretty nice place. :thumbsup

Originally Posted by Validus (Post 20296241)

How related are the topics of "lawful gun ownership" and "violent crimes with guns"?

Unless we have proof that supports gun crimes are committed with firearms acquired lawfully - is there an actual connection or does it expose some "marketing" tactics in support of another agenda?

If gun related crime is committed with firearms stolen from those who lawfully acquired them, than the storage and prevention of theft needs to get addressed, not the ownership and rights to have them... or not?

I believe the real issue is homicide rates and then possibly accidental deaths - not gun ownership itself.

Looking at murder rates on Wikipedia, the US is listed as #112 with a rate of 4.7 and Canada has a rate of 1.6 and listed at #170. Switzerland with a gun ownership rate of 45.7 guns per 100 residents, marking it the country ranked #4 for gun ownership, is ranked #206 with a murder rate of 0.6. These numbers seem to indicate that more guns does not = more murders.

The real issue is society or rather societies - the "willingness" to kill another person.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296429)

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296426)

Guns aren't prohibited. There is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership that I am aware of. The debate is whether gun ownership is down or up.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20295348)

here's the thing, gun hater Canadians-

1. USA cannot put the gun genie back in the bottle, please see what happened when we tried that with liqour.

2. this country was built on guns, tobacco, and liquor, you cannot change that history, instead, accept it and move on

3. guns are intrinsically linked to our fundamental rights, as you know.

4. reality.

4. 'Merica, fuck yeah.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20295574)

Old people own guns and they are dying off. Check the stats. The genie is dying, so soon we might be a decent society like the rest of the developed world.

Originally Posted by slapass (Post 20296458)

Unreasonable fear. Your title - "News FBI stats actually prove that more guns = less crime." Or did you forget that?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296464)

...Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20296497)

Here's an idea that might blow some minds...

What if (Just what if), all of the gun violence in America, has nothing to do with guns? What if something else is going?

For example, let's take biased media. When you watch Fox News, the overall picture that is painted by them always seems to be Worry. Panic. Be Afraid. Big Government is taking things away from you. Bad. Scary. Hate for the current president. Disdain. Fear of change.

When you watch MSNBC, the picture they seem to paint is Question. Why. Control from big business. Concern.

Obviously, the effects of both left and right media are very polarizing. Most people are either in 1 camp or the other.

I would argue that the "real news" comes from MSNBC, while the "Bullshit" "news" comes from Fox. I know many here will disagree with me on this but that isn't the point of my post. My point is this: Can the fear, confusion and misinformation put out by right wing media be a cause for a significant amount of gun violence?

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20296497)

all of the gun violence in America,

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296540)

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296543)

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians. :)

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296540)

Why not tackle the big killers first? I mean really, gun deaths, gun related shit is just a fraction of the others.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...s_of_death.png

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296543)

In a word? Politics.

Maybe gun companies should start giving company shares to politicians. :)

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20296562)

I think we should ban cigarettes. Nasty. I smoked for twenty years and I am glad to have that monkey off my back.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296406)

If you're not posting your opinions then WTF is this? It's certainly not factual...

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296429)

I don't watch Fox news. In fact, I don't pay much attention to any news channels.

Do you like it when people post wrong and ignorant information about the adult industry? Probably not.

Why are more people buying guns? For both fear and sport.

People can make all the bogus claims they like but the sales stats prove differently.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296551)

this would explain why people like ********** don't understand the reality of America and guns. I'm not trolling ********** here, but he is politically inclined and also very current on being updated by the media on politics and politically polarized issues.

remove those biases/controls and more Canadians would be able to see things in a more realistic way.

Originally Posted by trevesty (Post 20296580)

Sales can easily be driven up by individuals buying a new gun all the time.

Back in MO, I can think of 10 people off the top of my head who own over 100 guns.

That doesn't mean that gun ownership is going up, though. That would imply amount of people who own guns is increasing. It does, however, mean that firearm sales are up.

They are two different things.

What was I saying about analyzing data?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20296464)

I understand guns are not prohibited. I also understand there is no law in the works to prohibit gun ownership. You do not understand that the debate is not whether gun ownership is up or down, the debate here is guns in America.

here is our dialogue-

I posted this:




in reaction to my comment, you posted this:



the genie is not dying. Again, prohibition does not work (which is what anti-gun Canadians advocate, thus my pointing my comment to them), it doesn't matter if gun owbnership is up down or sideways and it certainly doesn't matter what the average age is of a gun owner. 260+ years of history, our founding document and the absolute fact this country was built on guns, again, all very real.

Originally Posted by AaronM (Post 20296473)

Unreasonable? How so? And what does that have to do with the thread title?

There are more things to fear than violence. Many people are buying guns now because they are afraid that the Government will be taking that right away soon.