Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 20298078)

Not quite true Kane. The Democrats had a big advantage of seats in the House, and a super majority 60 seat caucus in the Senate. They could have done anything and everything they wanted to do. The Republican had absolutely zero power to stop anything at all in Congress. That changed when Senator Kennedy passed away, and was replaced by Scott Brown to give the Dems only 59 seats, and no longer the super majority they enjoyed for nearly 2 years.

Then the Republicans had a way to filibuster in the Senate, which is why the Democrats did the around the bout, hack job rush bill with the Reconciliation maneuver.

Then in Jan 2011, the new congress took hold where the Republicans then had the House again, and more seats in the Senate. That is when you saw the House start to block the Senates moves, and the Senate start to shelve all bills from the House that Obama didn't want to veto or deal with. That is when the full on grid lock truly started.

Did the Republicans want to block and slow down Obama the first 2 years? Of course they did. They just were absolutely powerless to do so.

Democrats didn't pass all their dream projects and ideas those first 2 years, for one reason only. They wanted to be reelected. Healthcare was going to take all the political capital they could get away with, and still have Obama win in 2012. If they went full bore on EPA, Immigration, Healthcare etc in those first 2 years, he would have been a one and done.

Funny how Immigration wasn't a massive, urgent, must fix at any costs issue those 2 years :)

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298067)

It all depends on what the republicans are working together on. If they are trying to pass laws that the democrats see as bad and Obama blocks them it will help the democrats in 2016.

Let's not forget, the republicans blocked everything Obama and the democrats tried to do when he first took office. The democrats got frustrated and started using technicalities and loopholes to get things passed and that obstruction helped the republicans win back the house.

By blocking the republican agenda Obama can help fired up the liberal base for whoever may run in 2016 (likely Hilary).

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298085)

I have a feeling those first few years the democrats felt like they were going to be in power for a while. They had swept into office and there was a strong anti-republican feel in the nation.

The super-majority didn't stop the republicans from filibustering. From 2007-the first few months of 2010 there were at least 142 filibusters and votes for cloture. The democrats had the 60 votes to pass things, but since there were actually 58 democrats and 2 independents it was't a 100% guaranteed thing that they could get 60 votes on ever bill. not to mention the stalling tactics the republicans used in the house to delay things.

To me both parties during that time laid down a blueprint on how to cause problems for the other party. The republicans showed that if you are the minority and you just adopt the "Say no to everything" attitude you can be rewarded during the election. The democrats showed that there are ways to get around the filibuster and stall tactics so you can still do what you want. Both of those plans can come back to bite you if the roles are reversed.

I won't be shocked to see the democrats trying to block anything and everything republican based over the next two years and I won't be shocked to see the republicans use some of the same tactics they slammed the democrats for using to get around it.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20298069)

Vendzilla...I don't think that having to go through a medical quarantine, answer some questions and pay 50 cents is the same as what our govt. forces people to do today.

I'm an American citizen...and when I drive down to Mexico I get waved on in. When I come back to the United States it's like I'm entering the Soviet Union in 1950! Searched, questioned, treated like a criminal.

And that's what happens to ME as a U.S. citizen.

You can only imagine how a Mexican citizen must see it trying to drive into San Diego.

Anyway, I digress.
I don't think it should be up to what we think as far as the amount of people who come to the U.S. to be citizens.

I'm not even sure that the U.S. allowing "lawful immigrant status to more than 1.1 million aliens" is even applicable to this discussion.

"lawful immigrant aliens" aren't the same as becoming a U.S. citizen is it?

Is that what your family wanted to be when they came here through Ellis Island?
"Hey, let's travel from Europe with nothing but the clothes on our back looking for a better life and become...lawful immigrant aliens"

See what I'm saying? Bureaucracy is out of control in our govt.
They create these problems and then spend years "fixing" them when the answer is ludicrously simple: Stop making it so hard for people to come to the United States.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 20298094)

Already hearing how the republicans are changing their approach to everything, we'll wait and see.

By blocking everything the republicans on every turn, it will piss off more people than fire up any base. Then Obama can't blame everything on the republicans

The last time we had a Clinton in office and a republican controlled congress, the nation as a whole did pretty good, I'm all for that

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20298097)

Bingo!

It's no longer about doing what's right. It's about blocking the other party.

Obamacare is the perfect example. It's Romneycare. If it was Romney passing that same bill when he was in the White House, the Republicans would have loved it.

Originally Posted by Rochard (Post 20298097)

Bingo!

It's no longer about doing what's right. It's about blocking the other party.

Obamacare is the perfect example. It's Romneycare. If it was Romney passing that same bill when he was in the White House, the Republicans would have loved it.

Originally Posted by directfiesta (Post 20298105)

exactly ...

Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 20298082)

Robbie, while I agree that the immigration situation must be repaired and fixed, I think you have to be very careful with just how lose you make your requirements. If not for all the massive entitlement programs in the Country, I'd agree more with you about more of an open gate per say. But the nation is all about entitlement payments these days, and if you flood the country with too many poor, uneducated and worse than that, lazy people, you risk serious issues on all levels of government funding with these bloated entitlement programs.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20298114)

I agree with your thoughts on entitlement programs.

Which proves what I said...the Federal govt. CREATES these problems. And then struggles to "fix" them.

If the feds themselves didn't create massive entitlements, then citizens wouldn't try to get them. And if the feds hadn't went down to Columbia and went after the cocaine cartels...the Mexican cartels wouldn't exist. If the feds would go ahead and legalize marijuana and other recreational drugs then there wouldn't be the violence on the border.

It's a fucked up situation for sure. But you and I didn't create it.

It was created by lifetime/career bureaucrats in Washington D.C. taking money from special interests to pass stupid laws that only benefit the companies best interests.

People want to get high? Not unless we can hook 'em on prescription drugs and make billions! :(

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298085)

I have a feeling those first few years the democrats felt like they were going to be in power for a while. They had swept into office and there was a strong anti-republican feel in the nation.

The super-majority didn't stop the republicans from filibustering. From 2007-the first few months of 2010 there were at least 142 filibusters and votes for cloture. The democrats had the 60 votes to pass things, but since there were actually 58 democrats and 2 independents it was't a 100% guaranteed thing that they could get 60 votes on ever bill. not to mention the stalling tactics the republicans used in the house to delay things.

To me both parties during that time laid down a blueprint on how to cause problems for the other party. The republicans showed that if you are the minority and you just adopt the "Say no to everything" attitude you can be rewarded during the election. The democrats showed that there are ways to get around the filibuster and stall tactics so you can still do what you want. Both of those plans can come back to bite you if the roles are reversed.

I won't be shocked to see the democrats trying to block anything and everything republican based over the next two years and I won't be shocked to see the republicans use some of the same tactics they slammed the democrats for using to get around it.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20298114)

I agree with your thoughts on entitlement programs.

Which proves what I said...the Federal govt. CREATES these problems. And then struggles to "fix" them.

If the feds themselves didn't create massive entitlements, then citizens wouldn't try to get them. And if the feds hadn't went down to Columbia and went after the cocaine cartels...the Mexican cartels wouldn't exist. If the feds would go ahead and legalize marijuana and other recreational drugs then there wouldn't be the violence on the border.

It's a fucked up situation for sure. But you and I didn't create it.

It was created by lifetime/career bureaucrats in Washington D.C. taking money from special interests to pass stupid laws that only benefit the companies best interests.

People want to get high? Not unless we can hook 'em on prescription drugs and make billions! :(

Originally Posted by Axeman (Post 20298123)

Yes, while the Dems had the super majority, they were unable to rally everyone around the same plan. You had a lot of vulnerable blue dog Democrats that were unwilling to go as far as the Liberal left wing base wanted. They could have done anything they wanted, but self preservation was more important.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298128)

Personally, I think we need term limits. It would help do away withe the self-preservation fear and allow people do what was right instead of what they thought would get them elected.

Originally Posted by ********** (Post 20297937)

much needed tax dollars...

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20298132)

Yeah, funny how Congress voted in term limits for the President after FDR won 4 times in a row...but allowed THEMSELVES to serve forever. :(

EDIT: And by "serve" I really mean...hold power as the RULING elite

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 20298140)

you are right , its bullshit. it should 10 yrs and youre out and cant have anything to do with gov so no lobbyist job.

Originally Posted by tony286 (Post 20298140)

you are right , its bullshit. it should 10 yrs and youre out and cant have anything to do with gov so no lobbyist job.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298143)

Yep, once you hold elected office you are done. You see so many of these people that just keep running for different offices and when they aren't in office they work for lobbying firms and things like that. Politics, like working at McDonald's was never meant to be a career.

Originally Posted by Robbie (Post 20297925)

@Vendzilla:
My point is that if your family had to go through what a person does today to gain citizenship...you wouldn't be here.

If it had taken years and years plus thousands of dollars to get through Ellis Island...we'd all be screwed.

As for Muslim "terrorists" coming through Mexico?
I'm not of the persuasion that any of us should be living our lives in fear of the "boogeyman".
Crazy motherfuckers are always gonna do crazy shit. And creating a wall just like the communists did in Germany after WW2 is NOT the answer to anything in my humble opinion.

Originally Posted by kane (Post 20298128)

I wonder if we will see some of this now with the republicans. There are clearly different factions within the party and some of them are going to be afraid to support the other's policies.

Personally, I think we need term limits. It would help do away withe the self-preservation fear and allow people do what was right instead of what they thought would get them elected.

Originally Posted by Vendzilla (Post 20297943)

It doesn't cost thousands, it cost $595 for an application and $85 for a finger print fee. Yes, congress has talked about raising that and there are ways of getting it for free.

I just had a good friend become a citizen, it took her a few years, but she did it legally.

And I'm not talking about a wall, a wall is useless in most areas along the border. We can build a virtual wall using sensors and drones. Enforce the law, they get caught, they get booked and sent back, period. If they do it again, it's a felony and they do time. This is the law now, but not enforced

Originally Posted by MK Ultra (Post 20298158)

Holy shit, am I seeing signs of consensus on gfy?!