Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20326663)

actually, that video shows better why aliens do not exist.

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20326928)

Yet Dolphins don't fly aircraft, they don't build houses or fly in space ships. Why is that? Is it because evolution treated them unfairly? or could it be they have just evolved to suit their needs in which airplanes and space ships don't really fit their needs?

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20326928)

Assuming there is no other intelligent life out there based on the universe being really old or that they haven't found us is not logical. First off, there are obvious problems with space travel and you can't just assume that every form of life has the same capabilities or wants to live in different extremes as humans can.

Lets take Dolphins for example. They are clearly smart animals and quite capable of communicating with one another. They have their own social groups and do things that show they aren't just a dumb fish living in the ocean.

Yet Dolphins don't fly aircraft, they don't build houses or fly in space ships. Why is that? Is it because evolution treated them unfairly? or could it be they have just evolved to suit their needs in which airplanes and space ships don't really fit their needs?

Added to this, we aren't even smart enough or capable enough to talk to Dolphins yet we know they are intelligent.

Meaning, just assuming that all advanced life in the galaxy would end up at the penitential of space travel is sort of deluded. Perhaps there are cities of Sea Monkeys on Europa, but they have plenty of resources and have no reason to look else where. Would that mean they are not intelligent life, just because they don't want to or have no need explore elsewhere?

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20326928)

Meaning, just assuming that all advanced life in the galaxy would end up with the aim of space travel is sort of deluded. Perhaps there are cities of Sea Monkeys on Europa, but they have plenty of resources and have no reason to look else where. Would that mean they are not intelligent life, just because they don't want to or have no need explore elsewhere?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20326943)

but dolphins are very much not within the definition of technology capable intelligent life. that's the requirement here, not life, not somewhere between life and technlogy producing life, but civilizations that are capable of at the very least, what we humans are capable of. dolphins don't build spacecraft, for instance. they haven't gone to the moon.

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20326954)

Technology is a condition that we set as a standard, but it doesn't mean that is the same for all life everywhere. What if there is a microbe type of life form that has mastered the ability to transfer its self from one planet to another by means of hitching a ride on asteroids. Maybe it can even steer the asteroid where ever it wants by farting in one direction or another..

No technology needed, it just floats in space with no technical abilities, hitches rides around the galaxy on rocks where it finally falls onto that planet where it replicates as a virus and kills off anything in it's way. No arms, no legs and no technology as we see it needed yet it's conscious and knows what it does.

How can we just assume that it's not intelligent life, just because it doesn't fit in our narrow description?

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20326966)

But that is technology





And that's one of the debates re: Hansen's list. An Asteroid is a technological tool and the assumption is that Tool using animals also require big brains. That's based on earth biology, perhaps it is too big an assumption but I believe it valid assumption.

but I'm all for correcting the assumptions, but I think the list is pretty solid, especially when we take into account that we CLEARLY have not been colonized or even communicated to/with from ETs.

Let's assume your idea happens to be true, a microbe figures out how to hitch a ride on an asteroid. then the premise is they are intelligent enough to realize the value and need to colonize, that's why they caught that ride. That level of intelligence also is highly capable of communication, and other things.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20326975)

crockett, also, if that microbe hitched a ride to Earth, why wouldn't it hitch a ride to all the billion other Earths in the galaxy, right? We'd know by now if there was a common microbe on Earth-like planets.

I think it's very fair to say we are absolutely alone in this galaxy, more than likely alone within the known universe and probably alone in the entire universe.


OTR!

Originally Posted by crockett (Post 20327003)

How do you know they aren't here right now? Maybe they farted their way through the galaxy and are killing humans off with cancers and by controlling Dick Cheney's mind?

Maybe they see us as we see a cockroach or an ant. Do you try to communicate with cockroaches or ants? Maybe they just want to kill us off and their concept of time is different from ours.

Maybe they are perfectly happy taking a few hundred years to kill off the human race so they can then farm broccoli on our planet while setting up shop on Europa to also kill off the Space Monkeys living in the ocean there.

Maybe their only goal is to kill, making communication unnecessary.

Originally Posted by dyna mo (Post 20327028)

I don't disagree that the assumption that they are not here now could be the problem. We very well could already be colonized. But again, using Drake's equation, if it has happened once like that, then more than one microbe would have colonized more than 1 Earth-like planet just do to that huge #s. It doesn't make sense to me that life is easily replicated, due to the equation, but colonization only happens 1x with 1 planet. Not that it couldn't, the universe is a nutty place, anything goes.

But I'm not poo pooing the idea that they are here now, in fact, I think life here did come from something on an asteroid or comet, but I don't think that was planned, it was random. There's also some good math that shows life actually began around the time the universe did- 13 billion years ago, well before the Earth was formed. But again, random. Sartre was right! :1orglaugh

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd (Post 20327125)

I believe everything Giorgio says, so.....ALIENS!
Tho they are kinda Ancient.

Originally Posted by fappingJack (Post 20327890)

Aliens created the pyramids. In Egypt

Originally Posted by SekobA (Post 20328658)

maybe there's mankind somewhere in the universe..who knows

Originally Posted by fappingJack (Post 20327890)

Aliens created the pyramids. In Egypt

Originally Posted by madame (Post 20328199)

To assume we are alone in Universe as living creatures is unimaginable for me, considering the evolution and the size even of the reachable one, but I think the forms of life on other planets may differ so much, may not be willing to explore, or are just so different that, being far more developed, are perfectly "happy" living in a symbiose with their own environment and do not need to colonise others.

Originally Posted by aka123 (Post 20329189)

Need to colonize? What about the glory, victories, the smell of the gunpowder at mornings (smell of napalm is just as fine)?

"More developed" is pretty much subjective view. Even if it means plainly surviving, living; how it is measured? Domination, population number? For example humans are not the most numerous specie on Earth. Is for example some plankton more developed? It has succeeded to be more numerous, more thriving than us.

Originally Posted by madame (Post 20329324)

Given creatures which are rational to the point of avoiding all emotions, technologically developed and with understanding of universe and its rules, why to attack such a tiny planet with such imperfect habitants?

Originally Posted by madame (Post 20329324)

That's and interesting point, it is subjective indeed, yet if we consider the development as constant improvement of achievements in terms of knowledge, based on logic, we may think of colonisation as a rational agreement where x parties see the benefits and a potential for survival in collaboration. The fights and power are based on very basic instincts and if we think of it, even if people do great things for these feelings of superiority and self-esteem, even if they use intelligence to fulfil their purpose, it is still a weakness in the situation if you can't simply convince the other that your solution is better.
Given creatures which are rational to the point of avoiding all emotions, technologically developed and with understanding of universe and its rules, why to attack such a tiny planet with such imperfect habitants?

Is there a hidden diplomacy in the Universe? Maybe they know that we are still not prepared? Who knows, but the greed for power is definitely not an ultimate state of mind.

Btw, there is an interesting theory which states that as everything is actually made from particles => it is computable => we may be a Sims game of our future ourselves. :upsidedow