You can still be nice guy, but nice meaning decent-good heart guy, not needy-bitchy type nice. Be decent guy, but also introduce some alpha male elements into the mix.
If you tried to completely change from nice guy to bad boy you would probably fail because it would not flow naturally for yo at all.
So just start with eliminating neediness out of your interaction and add some indifference instead. For starters.

You should want to look good, dress nice, and be in good shape for yourself because you're the one that needs to look into the mirror every day. Nobody likes a fat slob. I'd rather look good and get no pussy than be a fat slob who gets pussy. Maybe it's just me. Luckily, I look pretty good and pull plenty of wool so I don't have to worry about it. :thumbsup

yeah I agree mate :thumbsup I ad-lib every single time, purely out of luck of being able to do so. If I know how to do one thing on this earth, it's how to start and continue a conversation with just about anyone if I so choose. I was referring to those lines from sites, and groups of 17 year old boys passed around as 'gold' etc :thumbsup

Very true, I wouldn't consider myself to be extremely adventurous - meaning I don't think I'll go Sky diving anytime soon, but I could definitely get out there and try new things, I've been wanting to go to a Shooting Range for the first time, things like that.

That would definitely be something to talk about. I need to do more cool things!

The vast majority of males fear rejection - and EVERY male gets rejected and that includes the top alpha males with looks, money and status. They just get rejected less and by better looking females. With every rejection the fear grows with many guys. It's a numbers game pure and simple, every guy I know who is great with women either naturally doesn't care about rejection much or he's trained himself not to care. He'll hit on 10 women knowing all that matters is 1. For a guy with a lot going for him he may hit on 1 of 5, another guy it might be 1 in 20.

The other fact of life is that people need to 'know their role', 'stay in their lane', 'don't punch out of your weight class' - if you're a '6 out of 10' guy, you're not ever going to date a 8/9/10, without paying for it. Until a guy comes to terms with that and lowers his expectations porn and escorts will have to do. Escorting, thanks to the Internet, continues to get more and more popular.

Sociopaths do well with women because they have supreme confidence, ill placed often but that doesn't matter to women, until it's too late and the sociopath has ruined their life.

Definitely check out Suits, I think you'll be as hooked as I am.

Thank you for that explanation, very useful - you're right - I don't think I'm good at this, but I do realise its a problem and I'm going to actively put in work and try to improve, which is a great start.

I have a goal of wanting to get a girls number from the shopping centre or to pick up a server, that would be pretty awesome!

I'm actually at that place at the moment, I'm trying to make myself toughen up and basically train myself, I'm telling myself "Life is a bitch, therefore I need to learn to fuck it".

I agree, rejection is the worry - but I need to learn to deal with the sting and be able to get into the next girl, fearing rejection will stop me from getting any where.

It's those instances where I wanted to talk to a girl, but I didn't have the courage that I regret, no the girl I offered a drink and she said no.

I try and remind myself of those opportunities that I chickened out and didn't talk to in order to avoid them again, I say to myself: "No regrets" and then I walk up and introduce myself and hope for the best :winkwink:

hahaha, exactly the kind of shit I do :1orglaugh :thumbsup

fwiw, I now just accept (most of the time anyway) that's part of what makes me me, and all the good shit that makes me easy-going, approachable, mostly friendly, blahblah etcetc because if I don't, I end up over-analyzing *that* shit, and on the vicious cycle goes.

Wise words.:thumbsup

I used to be like that but I'm not anymore and I'm not sure why that is because I never made a conscientious effort to change. Maybe it's just because I stopped caring but I really can't say for certain.

Never put anyone ahead of your lively hood and revenue generating means. If you do that you are doomed. If you can't work and generate revenue, you're no use to any one.

Put yourself and your revenue generation first.

Why third place? Thats so easy to change. Be creative.

Silently gesture for her friend to come over and tell her to be discreet, but tell her this guy is wanted by the FBI and authorities are on their way and ask that they try to keep him talking, in one place and don't act suspicious. She'll immediately call her friend to the bathroom and tell her. Then they'll also have to start asking who you are, how you know and you just became the most fascinating person they've met so far that night. You can be more fascinating depending on what you say next and where you lead things.

Or let her know he's the guy from the ad campaign for herpes medication or something and to use protection if her intent is to hook up with him. Advise that it would be for her to tell her friend in the interest of safety and say you only know because he gets called out a lot and always denies it. It's an example of 1,000,000 things you could do or say in the moment to be both playful and get rid of him.

Who will they want to talk to after that? Particularly when they know you're just fucking around? Who is now the funnest more interesting guy around them?

I'm so random with this shit, that my friends all cringe when i open my mouth in public places.

That describes the least interesting interaction ever AND the same exact experience they have 10 times a day and what happens over and over again, every time they go out. They knew they didn't want to talk to you the second you started talking.

Remember this. You can say anything. Anything. Get creative. Be interesting. Always be indirect. You are never trying to hit on them. You are never trying to start a conversation with them and hang out and get to know them. Act like you are trying to sell a product and the challenge is in understanding that same product is being sold to them 7 days a week. They've heard the pitch a million times. They hate it. They hate the person making it before he even starts talking. They hate this routine... because its that. Routine. Their defenses are up the moment you talk and from that moment on, they are just being polite. Be interesting, be different, be indirect and make them want to know about the product and start asking questions.

Remember, you're not trying to meet them. You're not trying to hook up with them. Never let them think this. You're goal is to make them want to know you. You're goal is to make them want to talk to you. You can start conversations a 1,000,000 different ways. (Just being random and making a random example), ask if they can see the stain on your shirt or if it came out.. when they ask what it was, say you were standing next to a guy in the bathroom and he got stabbed and you got into a struggle and ended up taking the knife away from the guy and police finally came. Thats random and i just made it up while typing this.. the point is that now they are riveted. They have tons of questions. They want to know more. You are now interesting. The door is open and they want to know you. You are not trying to convince them to open the door so you can sell yourself to them. Of course you have to tell them later that you were just joking about the knife fight or whatever. It won't matter once you've built rapport and attraction.


James Bond doesn't buy women drinks to get their attention. Thats demonstrating weakness, lower social status and value. He says something fascinating and witty, ignores their beauty or calls out a small flaw (you have lipstick on your teeth, i hope it hasn't been there all night) and moves on and they then want to talk to him. Particularly when they see him with another hotty.
i.e. "if they thought i had low confidence and self esteem, i immediately confirm it with this horrifying display".

going with the flow/stopped caring - we probably name it different, and have slightly different perceptions of it, but I can understand that totally and agree. it's pretty much subconscious to a certain degree once you hit the first 'not caring' instance of whatever it is... it spills into everything (most things) and becomes like porn nerds stick shift analogy (which I also use a hell of a lot btw PN) but on many things rather than a specific thing :thumbsup

lmfao I missed this part "3. I asked about pets, I'm a huge cat fan and that gives me an opportunity to show them pictures of my cat on my phone. (hope this isn't showing weakness?)
4. I show them a picture of when I had a beard and I ask their opinion if it looked good"

100% troll, but like I say, interesting discussion anyway :)

Dam, that's some major creativity there - I'm impressed and I actually want to hear more about the knife fight :1orglaugh

This is definitely something that needs to be practised, but I'm up for the challenge - I just hope I can get half as creative and maybe the outcome will be a little different.

Yeah, the sweating thing is a problem - I need to work on it (hopefully its possible)

I agree. I try to stay fit and lean and to not dress like a slob. It helps with the confidence and swagger if you are dressed well, or really if you are dressed in clothes you really like and make you feel like "you". Clothes do say a lot about someone. Jeans and t-shirts are fine if you throw in a rolex. LOL

No, seriously. If she says she likes cats and I feel the conversation needs a prop then I show pictures of my cat. I find that its something different as I don't think most guys like cats, but I do (and most females usually do), which usually helps to build up a connection.

Then I discuss how I like cats because they are very independent, they do their own thing. If a cat wants affection then it will come to you, if not then it will do its own thing, and I compare this to dogs who are always wanting affection. People say dogs have owners, but cats have slaves etc

I'm seriously trying to improve here, I guarantee you no troll attempt (this is actually the second time a serious thread of mine has been called a troll attempt) - I guess I just need to discuss pretty fucked up topics :winkwink:

Again, you are doing the same thing. Approval seeking behavior. Attraction has nothing to do with common interests. Thats a relationship and marriage. No woman will think "I want to get with him because he likes cats"

I always go the opposite direction.

"I don't mind cats too much. To be honest, i'm a little terrified of them. When i was 5 , my father was attacked by several cats as we walked through an alley and almost died. I still vividly remember holding his hand before the ambulance came with him saying goodbye to me and telling me that he loves me. It was really hard on me. There was a lot of blood".

"really, are you serious"

"of course not! what the hell is wrong with you?! why would you even believe that? Are you always so gullible?"

If he's a troll, I wish there were trolls like him! Especially with all the new trolls polluting the board like FriendsforNow or some of the other tools.

You're spot on! My approach I'm trying to agree with them, trying to show them I agree, basically the common people pleaser approach.

With your approach, you're making a joke, you're testing their humour and you're not agreeing with them.

Dam, this is tough. My approach has been straight forward, which seems boring and uninteresting.

Your approach is extremely creative, and grabs their attention.

You're pretty fucking funny, dude. :thumbsup

Its how i am as a person though. I just say random shit and for whatever reason, it won't come off as offensive. Whatever you do, it has to be you saying it.. not a character you create. It has to work with your personality and your voice.

But yeah, you get it. Not agreeing. Not complimenting. Not buying drinks. Not kissing ass. Not bragging. Not showing off. Just making fun conversation without showing direct interest in them and at times, making fun of them a little in a lighthearted way. The whole time, they never really know if you're interested or not, if you like them or not, if you're trying to get with them or not... they just know you're fun and they want to spend more time with you. Then they start qualifying and selling themselves to you. That is the start of the perfect pickup.

Of course there are more steps to take things further, but its super hard for people to just master initiating the conversations, keeping it going, keeping the right tone, not showing too much interest and making it fun.

I agree with @jimmycooper - you're a legend! I can only imagine having you as a wing man, I'd forget this girl after half an hour :thumbsup

She basically did this to me. We would chat, she would spend time with me, but I wasn't sure if it was going anywhere, she wasn't showing direct interest.

Her personality is also extremely friend, which I think I might have been reading as possible interest/flirting.

I guess I need to try this whole new approach, play it cool, be mysterious and see how it goes.

That example came to mind because actually, i was at a supermarket a few years ago and it was Thanksgiving Day... i bought some stupid stuff with my wife at the time. The cashier girl asks kind of stunned "what, no Turkey today" and I looked up with a really sullen look on my face and said "this is not a good day for me, its really hard for all of us" and she asked "why is that"... i just randomly said with sorrow in my voice "my father was killed by turkeys".

The bag boy froze with this horrified look on his face (young kid) and says "really??"

Then everyone is staring at me and i'm trying my best to tear up and just waiting for someone to ask "what happened".

You could see everyone wanted to but was afraid to.
It was so funny because no one wanted to be the first to ask such as stupid question.

I gave them some time and then pretended to be holding back tears and said "i'm sorry, i gotto go" and hurried out the store.

Awesome. At the end of day, whether it be in picking up girls or in other random interactions, it's always fun to amuse yourself. At least that's always been the case with me.

Agreed. Life is short. I try to make it interesting and fun where i can. :)

I think people don't stop to think much about how fun a simple interaction can be. I love just being random ... "Hey, this is Jimmy... he is the most interesting guy you'll ever meet. He holds 2 world records. One of them is for being the only person alive with 4 kidneys. Its crazy. That's why he has such great skin. He is super embarrassed about the second, so don't ask, anyway, i have to go talk to my friends for a second, I'll be back"

Start fucking her friends. She'll come back around when they tell her you're a tiger in the sack.

Just remember not to move so fast next time. Some women are scared of commitment until late 20's. Until then they just want a guy to fuck without labels. How you act around her will let her know that she's special; no cheesy card required.

Wrong, people never really change that much. The act will either wear off or be seen for what it is. For short time hook-ups it might work but OP seems to be looking for long term.

Like TheSquealer said,you can make yourself more interesting, but be yourself if you want a long lasting relationship.

:2 cents:

.

In a nutshell just treat them like you would your little sister. It has been said before that you kind of put them down a little in a fun way like you would do to your little sister. Be a bit of an ass. The hotter they are the better this method works.

Absolutely true, if the person is trying to be something he is not and never will be. I suppose I am talking about being a more idealized version of yourself. It's the same as with TheSquealer James Bond example. You don't actually believe you are James Bond, that would be delusional. LOL But you bring out the best aspects of yourself.

If you want to be more confident there's no trick to it, you just be more confident. Confidence is a feeling, and we, as human beings in control of our own minds, can trigger any feeling we want whenever we want.

So you are being you, just a better, more confident "you". A you at your best, as it were. If you will. :D

Also when you walk into a room say hello right away. Show you are not afraid of her. Most guys just lurk around hot a hot woman and she can feel their eyes on her and she gets creeped out. After you say hello just walk away and talk to someone else. Make her want that attention. This works very well. For people who are famous this just happens because it is part of their life but if you are a regular guy you have to be conscious of it and make it happen.

Here's a Pro Tip for you, just because it's motherfucking Christmas:

Treat celebrities like they are regular people and treat regular people like they are celebrities.

I'm a Ho Ho Ho (so I know).

Cheers! :)

I've always kept it pretty standard and boring as has been pointed out, but I'm going to try think of a few creative things like this - just not sure I can pull it off, but worth a try.

I'm actually in my early 20s and she recently entered her early 30s, which is around a 7 to 8 year difference in age, this could also be a reason things didn't develop as I think she saw me as more of a kid and not an adult.

I consider myself to be mature, definitely more mature for my age and I'm not looking to play games with a girl. If she's interested then that's great, lets do things and see where it goes.

For this reason I think I prefer slightly older girls, because then hopefully they are more mature, they know what they want and they aren't looking to play games.

I look at girls my age and most are running around wild, getting drunk, partying like crazy - where I'm looking to do those things occasionally, but I would prefer other activities as well, not having that being the main focus.

So yeah, I think I am looking for something more long term, as that will hopefully cost less in emotions, because I see a relationship as an emotional investment.

Usually I throw compliments (If I have the confidence to) and usually I wouldn't dare say anything negative, I would rather avoid it. But I'm going to try this the next time I have an opportunity to put someone down, I just hope I'm able to find an opportunity that is not something extreme.

I basically need to put them down with a soft blow, but with my luck I will probably say something so bad that she will start crying :(

I like this idea, as it differentiates me - its going to be pressure, but at least I would have made the first move and therefore have made an impression before other guys.

Good one :thumbsup

When you find yourself getting comfortable, realize that personal growth is then stopping ;)

You can do anything you are determined to do and anything worth doing takes practice to be good at.

Nothing says "I'm over you " like a glass of hydrochloric acid in the face.

You are lucky, because you haven't had anything serious with her... That's just a short time feeling, you will be great, just get away from her... :)

Text a dick pic?

I think a guy usually has one bad break up. The rest are easy. Kind of fun watching a girl thinking she is crushing you, You just smile and say okay.

Nothing says I love you like a 2oz whitman sampler and a computer printed card .