Fantastic news from Epoch! Rand I'm going to send you an email over the weekend with a few ideas I want to talk to you about.

You quoted earlier a post that answered this. It is part of the terms Paypal made them agree to.

So Paypal made them agree that they could only allow their customers to use Paypal if they also used Visa and Mastercard through Epoch?

Not only doesn't that make any sense...but I doubt it would even be a legal agreement.
I don't think Paypal would give two shits if someone was a client of Epoch and used MC or Visa. Why on Earth would that even be of any interest to Paypal.

I'd say it's just a business decision by Epoch. No big deal. It's their company. And I'm sure at 15% processing fees that they want their customers to use them in every way.
Makes sense.

Just seems like they would also want to grab the extra business from people who already have their own merchant accounts and don't need their credit card processing.

Pretty awesome, this means sale will sky rocket for epoch people.

IMHO i think PayPal only had issues with porn membership sites, as they have been processing porn on E-Bay for years. Look under ADULT on e-bay to see what i mean. Sending out physical items such as DVD's Pictures and dildo's is way less of a chargeback risk :upsidedow

I think it could be a credibility thing. Paypal can to some degree assume the due diligence has already been done on the sites Epoch is processing for. For example, anytime you launch a new site on Epoch or CCBILL, Visa has its own review process of the new site, which is why it takes 20 days sometimes to get all the payment options listed on the checkout page. If you were only able to list Paypal as an option (even with a merchant account), there would be no real consistent vetting process of the content you were selling.

Also, I am sure Paypal took into account how much volume Epoch does , their track record of charge backs, etc. I am sure getting Paypal on board was a long process with all kinds of terms. Notice how they started with the EU first and then moved to the USA? I wouldn't be surprised if the EU was the test phase to see how it did. If it was easy to get Paypal on board, one would assume CCBILL and many others would all have this option.

ND sales through the roof with PP option!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Epoch!

Great job guys :thumbsup

Amazing news

Yes, I use PayPal for adult DVDs so does adultdvdempire and other companies. Never had a problem doing so.

It is all about risk management and Paypal stopped processing back in the day because of the issues with companies "blowing up" banks running their own merch accounts. Epoch had to jump through many hoops to get Paypal back and they deserve big praise for their efforts imo. :2 cents::thumbsup

Thanks! I look forward to hearing about your ideas.

good news :thumbsup

I used them as a processor for a small cam site back then. They told me they were fearing for their reputation. We had around 100 transactions a day and not a single chargeback within a year.

that's awesome news! I wonder how long before other CC processors add paypal as well.

Yeah, I remember we all lost a lot of money back in the day when PayPal stopped processing online adult memberships :(

As I understood it, it was for "moral" reasons. They were just starting to merge PayPal and Ebay together and didn't want Ebay "tainted".

Of course today you can buy porn, adult toys, etc. all on Ebay. But they put the freakin' hammer down back then. :(

It was a nasty "one-two" punch coming so close to the time that American Express stopped processing for adult.

MAN I wish American Express would process Adult!
I missed the Glory Days. :(

get a EU company and use Paysite Cash - i have American Express for my shop

good news:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

just noticed that the paypal logo doesn't show on the billing page when on a mobile device (though it is there in the drop-down menu payment method) - can't help thinking that logo would be very handy to have on page load rather than hidden away in the drop-down menu :2 cents:

they changed their TOS, check it out on their site

Showing on iPad for me. Might need to customize link.

Im unable to send a mail to epoch. wtf

Message not sent. Server replied:

Requested action not taken: mailbox unavailable
550 5.1.1 <>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table

So how is Paypal via Epoch working out for everyone? :)

Still BANNING a lot of adult content
 

I recently tried to get Epoch for my own site... I sell adult paperbacks/comics & e-Books. Majority of my sales are e-Books. Epoch stated I have too many 'TABOO' listings (incest, bestiality, etc). I asked what if I remove the taboo listings... still said NO!! They stated that the manpower associated with e-Books is just too much compared with video. They could not answer exactly why e-Book downloads requires more 'manpower' than sites that host dvd's or video downloads. Was a waste of time.

My God... how nice it'd be to have Visa/MC/Discover AND Paypal!! My sales would skyrocket. But, alas, the Morality Police are still winning. :(

"Morality Police"? You have listings like incest and bestiality, dumbass.

Thank godness for companies like Epoch keeping our backs safe from guys like you. :321GFY

Great work, well done to all the Epoch team!

They are books, NOT videos, and as such, they have first ammendment protection. So "morality police" comment is correct. But it is NOT Epoch, it is PayPal folks who are scrutinizing the content ....and to have PP is a greater good for all, then some incest books for a few.:2 cents:

PayPal Sucks !

I like probably everyone else here have no love of bestiality, but pseudo incest (and fictional stories of real incest) is fine by me. As we all work in adult, we shouldn't start criticizing what adults consensually take part in.


Billing companies have their own agendas with banks breathing down their backs.
Epoch and others aren't evil and probably love porn as much as we do, but also want to remain in business and on the good side of their banking partners hence sometimes being 'morality police'.

Fantastic article about that here: https://www.engadget.com/2015/12/02/...-sex-industry/

YES... "Morality Police"!!! I sell TEXT files... that means stories inspired from IMAGINATION, meaning NOT REAL! That clear enough for you? Murder is illegal, but you can write about it, sell it with no issues. The same can be said about almost any crime/act. HOWEVER, writing stories of rape, incest, bestiality, etc. are blocked by Visa/MC/Paypal etc... and you don't see the problem? Right now there is a virtual ban on 'rape for titillation'... what EXACTLY does that mean? Who defines it? Same with 'extreme violence' and a few others. I stand by my 'Morality Police' comment.

You can do this at Bantam Spectra. They published A Song of Ice and Fire that has those themes and more. Caveat: short stories only centering around these acts may not fly with them. :2 cents:

I will define it: sick.

Plenty of 'sick' things are completely legal. What one person defines as 'sick' is completely acceptable, perhaps even normal, by another. FYI: I personally have never read even one of the books I sell, just something I fell into. Some more info of possible interest:

Do I personally think murder is ok? No.

Do I personally think incest is ok? No, but what if both are consenting adults?

Do I personally think bestiality is ok? No, I think it's disgusting.

Do I personally think rape is ok? Absolutely frigg'n not!! It's a horrible act, and I think people that do commit rape should be executed or serve LIFETIME sentences!!

Do I personally think child rape is ok? No. People who commit such acts are pond scum and deserved to be castrated and then put to death!

Do I personally think those actions and plenty of others should be illegal? You bet!!

Do I personally think that any of these topics should be banned in fiction writings? Absolutely not! 100% absolutely not!!

If that makes me 'sick', then I'll gladly wear that mantel.