More simple: Russia minded president was thrown away; there weren't that much or any degotiations about semi-autonomous or such (by either side). Russia invaded and annexed Crimea. Russia backed and probably provoked rebels took over in parts of Eastern Ukraine.

Russia this and that is quite clear, as Crimea is now officially part of Russia, and the rebels can't continue shit without Russia's support.

Another proof that States don't give a shit about Ukraine and it citizens, but simple use it for a proxy war against Russia:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9a5hHjIYAEddZS.jpg

https://twitter.com/Truth_Seeker_11/...241280/photo/1

Just a business, as usually :thumbsup :1orglaugh

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh As you say, business per usual....
Former secretary of US treasury, Paul Craig Roberts:

:2 cents::2 cents:

you missed the part where the regime simply sent tanks and military to 'take control' of the government for those regions. the arms were taken up when the military started actually firing those tanks.

the part that entirely gets overlooked is simple:

What happens to all these people if they were to 'surrender'? do they get odd golden shapes given to them, put to work with no hope of ever voting? Or do they get 'removed' somehow to 'remove' the russian 'infiltration'?

What people, you mean the rebels or the citizens of these areas, those can of course overlap somewhat? There are already people in various cities not under rebels, and there were/ are cities that were taken back from the rebels. So, there you go, you have example what has happened.

Also, what if you seek example what has happened elsewhere. There is not that much putting to work with no hoping to ever vote. I mean in civil wars. But the Russian soldiers would be kicked out of the country for sure, and I am quite sure that Russia does want them back.

Howe simple and straight he explains the obvious things (this is something you won't expect to hear from US politician nowadays) that every party knows but pretends it's no so. Well looks like some Ukrainians don't understand the fact they are being used, but Americans and Russians definitely understand what's really is going on around :2 cents:

what dont you understand? of course they understand they are being both sides.

they prefer to be on the american side. this is the entire point of what is happening. :2 cents:

i find it hilarious when people actually believe that ukrainians want to be cozy with russia. have you read any history books?

They want to be on their own side, and good relations with USA supports that.

What is the American side anyways? Why would someone want to be on American side per se? Besidess it serving their own purposes?

Yes of course; without the using part Ukraine would happily give everything to Russia. There is no doubt about that.

you are correct. i mean in terms of they prefer to align away from russian control.

That's why I really like this guy........ he always tells it exactly like it is, doesn't sugar coat and understands the real issues which 99% of mainstream people (the sheeple as you say) don't get.

He always explain how the free media works in democratic States. In fact, quite the exact way as the non-free media works in anti-democratic Russia. Oops, surprise :winkwink:

Like Georgia did. What do they've got from it? They lost war, lost a lot of their soldiers and weapon. At last they lost control on a rather huge part of their territory. Have the States helped Georgians? Have they started a war against Russia to protect their "ally"? No they did nothing. Just stood aside and laughing at their crying and pleading for the protection puppy. That was just a business as usually. Too bad the Ukrainians don't learn on others mistakes. Paul Craig Roberts has mentioned it as well.

An " OUPSsss " moment :warning

So Ukraine should bend deeply to Russia and say; "Yes, masters."

It really doesn't work that way. For example: personally I think it is good that my country (Finland as you know) has good relations to Russia; but there is a limit to what it keeps inside. We don't swallow anything.

Both US and Russia thinks that everything is about them. Like some spoiled childs.

I understand how the Americans can operate globally. I don't have this view that they are a God send for the Ukrainian people or the liberators like you see in the movies.

My grandpa used to tell me stories of the Ukrainian underground how the soviets had his friends executed. How after WW2 the soviets tried to force them back onto farms and they fled. How they were never able to speak to their parents again.

Ukrainian famine etc etc.

The way people make it sound like the general Ukrainians want to be aligned with Russians is just not true.

Yes Ukraine does have a alot of Russian and Russian speakers. But this was a plan by the soviets to install pro russian population into the east of Ukraine to keep their control. Influence through language and economics. It is like me buying the houses next to you for your "enemies" and then telling you to leave the neighborhood.

Even the russian foreign minister admitted there was an exact plan for Ukraine.

The Ukrainian people in general do not want war. They are a relaxed people. Are they getting played by both sides for sure.

I have heard from people in Crimea that said that the polling stations were full of pro Russians with guns watching your votes. So you can guess why i may have trouble respecting that "vote". The average population there just wants peace. they are simple people and do not want war.

Many people in these areas have lost their business' homes and everything. to make it sound like they prefer to be "russian" is not true at all. they wanted to be left alone to live their simple lives. And now are caught in a game with both sides clawing at them.

I don't know what shit do you smoke, but you need to find a new drug dealer. There was no Ukraine and no "ethnic Ukrainians" before 1917. It was just a part of Russian Empire, called Malorossia (just a regular region like Belorussia, Moskovia, Siberia etc). The modern Ukraine has the borders of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialistic Republic, created by Lenin and Stalin (those just joined some parts of Russia with territories annexed from Poland/Moldova/Hungary and named it as Soviet Republic). Look at the map and please stop posting nonsense:

http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/a...1pYIUAATKf.jpg

Now it's going to end up like it was with Georgia. The one must be a complete idiot to trust in "friendship" with States and hope for their help. They will chew you and spit you out like they did with their former allies like Saddam or Saakashvili.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VH0DmsF39U...a.US.UN.EU.gif

taken back? how do you 'take back' cities that already belong to those people? you start 'moving your own people in'? how does the government plan to get around 'these people' voting for the very same politicians that were in power in the first place?

yes, what i 'seek as an example' has happened elsewhere. in history. during an extremely dark time in history with the same flags being waved around.

you can keep doing the brand spanking new 'ministry of propaganda' job for them, but these are real questions currently being asked.

Since 1917 is so fresh in your mind, do you also recall 1921 when Russians were eating human flesh as canibals because they had nothing else to eat?

Americans were responsible for feeding tens of thousands of Russians, saving their lives. Not to mention we also helped bail you out during WW2 with sending you shitloads of military hardware via the lendlease program..

However Ruskie propaganda probably never taught you that..

What are you talking about? Are you drunk or what?

The Americans (e.g. Dorangel Vargas, Kevin Ray Underwood and many others) were eating human flesh as cannibals just recently and NOT because they had nothing else to eat (I guess). Honestly I don't know why those Amerikansye eat other people. However, I have no idea how it could be related to my post above about the borders of Ukraine and so-called "ethnic Ukrainians" before Soviet Socialistic Revolution of 1917.

Course it's always easier to provide food in exchange for the GOLD, instead of fighting like man at war (coward will be coward forever). It was just a business for you, as usually. The Soviet Union lost millions of human lives protecting your cowardly country + whole Western Europe while you made a bank "helping" Soviets by selling them food and weapon for the gold. Why I'm not surprised? :1orglaugh

And this clown tries to tell me about propaganda? :1orglaugh

100 proxy wars.,.,./... :)

It is good to remember that USA vs Russia proxy wars are "proxy" only from their views. For other parties involved those are just regular wars, unless they are involved in some proxy way too. Actually in many African wars there has been multiple proxy nations involved. And in WWII war against Germany was proxy war for US for long time; proxies were mostly UK and Soviet Union.

Also in US independent war, US was proxy for France.

believe it or not - but east of ukraine wants it. its just different mentality

Russians do not exist! We all evolved from tribes in Africa!

Do you see how your point means 0.

Millions of people claim themselves to be Ukrainian. It doesn't matter what you think. Throughout history people have changed tribes claimed land thousands of time over.

Americans helped my grandparents flee from the soviets and helped them get across into free land in the west.

The soviets were kind enough to starve millions of Ukrainians before that period.

But yes yes bring in the Russians!

There is pig headed Russians all over the world. I have met them in Europe, Caribbean, Canada, USA and they are all the same. Blind, brutish, ugly and stupid.

USA USA USA.

Putin likes poo poo :1orglaugh

USA USA USA

:disgust

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/701/ca7...her-6c13cd.jpg

https://www.afghanistan-analysts.org...Dedication.png

and then you get into that awkward business connection thing between US and Nazi Germany

Nazies had many business connections. For example Sweden was important ore producer for Germany and also manuractured ball bearings for Germany. Luckily for Germans, as their ball bearing factories got bombed on regular basis, Sweden's didn't.

I don't think that US did anything similar. Some joint ownerships and such, if I remember correctly.

Ford and Opel (General Motors) were American owned before, during and after the war

didn't read up Ford but in the case of Opel they just couldn't transfer any profits out between 1942 and 1945

and Henry Ford was a Nazi fan anyways

really?
Afghanistan - took it from Taliban, gave it back to people, its up to them to keep it now
korea - north korea is still north korea, they don't own south korea and wont
iran - ????
Iraq - corrupt politicians can destroy a country, it was given to them, they screwed it up
japan...doing good
Germany doing good
every country still in Russia's pocket, still poor

the US does not fuck up other countries, their people do because they don't know any other way.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...l_Aid_Man.jpeg

:1orglaugh

oh right...just like in iraq, you caused the deaths of 100.000-s and left a shitty gov...I am telling you: you do everything shit :1orglaugh

at the cost of millions of n.koreans lives :1orglaugh you cemented a dictator in power....maybe you do not understand?? :1orglaugh look you have to ask people "what is a job well done?" and they will explain that it is not creating more shit than before but actually solving a problem: something the USA is completely incapable of doing

you installed a puppet government with the shah (very democratic LOL) and then you completely fucked it up in a most spectacular way and khomeini came to power and millions died in the later wars...you fucked it up, even though your politicians told you otherwise :1orglaugh

riiiiiiiiight it had nothing to do with the USA being incompetent and the "Rebuilding" corrupt as fuck :1orglaugh riiiiiiiiiiiiight :1orglaugh the USA had no say whatsoever

yes you nuked 100.000-s of fishermen in war torn crippled japan...japan was no threat whatsoever and stalin kinda took the glory for winning WW2 and was going to march the fuck in to jap and take ALL THE GLORY...and at the cost of 100.000-s of lives the USA just HAD to intervene LOOOOOOOOL

shut up about japan :2 cents: you are american you can not understand that dropping nukes on fishermen is wrong :2 cents:

you didnt visit them LOL...europe and russia did......my shit hole yugoslavia lost just as much people as the USA did :1orglaugh...


yes yes the 100.000-s of bombs the USA drops, the decades upon decades of economic sanctions and the economic terrorism have nothing to do with it at all...you brainwashed north korean/american LOL

O'rly? Please name these countries. A special note for idiots: we are not talking about Soviet Union (there is no such country anymore). We are talking about Russian Federation. Ok, ho ahead and show your list.

This kind of threads are a thread for the porn community. The USA government will hate you for being so anticapitalist and antiimperialist.

Too bad I am that too... so they hate me too.

yes they did have many business connections, it just so happens that one of the main business connections they had, already attempted to overthrow the FDR government less than 10 years earlier that you can read about under 'business plot' here:

7 Insane Conspiracies That Actually Happened | Cracked.com

that business connection went on to doing business with another facist party, and when war broke out continued doing business with that fascist party but simply cooked his books so it wouldn't seem that way.

another interesting note on this was 'standard oil', a partner in that aforementioned business plot, also owned by Prescott Bush, was refueling german uboats, and reported caught on film by the US Coast Guard.

so yes, they had business connections.. Ford for example.. its just some business connections were tried for treason for it, and those business connections had already attempted their own facist coups. and currently, that same family seems to be responsible quite a few wars..