Indeed. 8 char

i am not sure what you are saying but i was supporting what you wrote...

Putin is scaling. He should have been stopped in Georgia. Admit it.

Let's say it is true that Russia is involved.

What does that change ? Super power countries always use their influence directly or thru bodies such as Nato, UN, etc ...

Did you hear the clip in which Obama says :

Obama: ?We have to Twist Arms when Countries don?t do What we Need them to Do?

If ONE country has been doing this, it is the USA ( now thru NATO ) .... doesn't make what other does right, but does explain it.

Twisting arms does not mean secretly sending in tens of thousands of troops with tanks and missile launchers. Russia is trying to quietly subdue an entire country by force while pretending not to. First they took Crimea, now Eastern Ukraine, and then next year they will take the rest.

If Russia is not involved, why doesn't the US just send in troops to support the Ukrainian government? We wouldn't get into a war with Russia because they aren't there.

I understand Russia's concerns. Traditionally since the end of WWII they have wanted huge buffer zone of puppet states between them and Europe. But the truth is everyone wants to be a part of Europe and no one really wants to be a part of Russia. It's not like Germany is going to be invading any time soon.

Lets say it's "true"? Do you really think Russia is not supporting the rebels with weapons & soldiers?

i wish people would read what was posted in this thread instead of speculating about things that are already settled

Russian rebels have a very odd understanding of the words ceasefire..

They continue to shell a town which is contested even after the ceasefire took place..

"Eduard Basurin, a senior rebel commander, told Reuters: "Of course we can open fire (on Debaltseve). It is our territory. The territory is internal: ours. And internal is internal. But along the line of confrontation there is no shooting."

This is why you just can't ever trust a Ruski..

Ukraine cease-fire holds, except in one spot - CBS News

There are no Russian rebels on the Ukraine, you moron. Those are UKRAINIAN REBELS.

http://newsbusters7.s3.amazonaws.com...R-Costello.jpg

Is she your cousin? The level of your stupidity is just amazing (I'm not surprised that 5th of Americans can't locate their own country on the World map).

Or Russians rebeling in Ukraine. Or whatever you like to call these Russian soldiers/ Russians (while not serving in Russia's military) in Ukraine.

You know how I know that you can never trust a Ruski? Because everyone in the world understands there are Russian Soldiers in Ukraine fighting, but you still come here and lie about it as if you actually believe your own bullshit.

Nikogda ne doveryayte -russki

There are a lot of good American people, but it's sad to see a lot of dumb asses brained washed by cnn/fox/etc... Let's take a super easy simple example to understand with Canada:

Quebec (french) always want to separate from (English) Canada. Let's say Canada had Quebec born prime minister (let's call him president). Now, let's assume huge strike is going on and English side with weapons beats/burns police force in Ottawa, and they do armed take over of the parliament building. Then, this (English) armed group puts their people in charge of the country, and first they do is try to ban French language. Two questions:

1. How would USA react to this? would they support armed group who overthrew democratically elected president?(it doesn't matter that the president was corrupt, he was elected)
2. When English side would roll tanks/troops towards Quebec/Montreal, what would French people do? just accept it?
3. When English side would shell Montreal all day long killing regular people daily, would USA blame pro-french separatists for doing that?

There are NO Russian military present, please show proof (other then screenshots from a computer game by US). There are however Russian and MANY other nationalities who came on their own to support donbass. Same goes for Ukraine, on Ukrainian side there are a ton of polish, geogians, chechens, swedish, belgium, etc. You know nothing about this conflict, stop watching CNN.

"I will only put the head in -- I promise"
"I will pull out before I shoot my load"

It's a dog and pony show ...

US did it in Kosovo, thousand miles from own border, helping and arming muslim terrorists. Russians are just doing same,still on smaller scale and decades too late.

Who wants to be in EU? Many countries were forced into Eu without any kind of referendum about it That is process that you need to feel before understanding how it is done and how much money and effort is put to force complete countries into EU.

I don't get why Russians are even hiding it. Sure ,there are no evidences but it would be silly not to think they are not there when nazis are grouping on their border.

If Russia reacted properly, war would last few days and much less people would suffer.

I'm not a pro-war one etc, but here I have to agree with you. If Putin was not a coward, he could finish this conflict in a few days with much less victims (the same way it was done with Georgia). The problem is that Putin is not a leader. He's just an old, thievish and paranoiac moron :2 cents:

Problem is Ukraine is not Georgia, Ukraine got 40+mill people, there could of been a huge escalation with a direct support from US+NATO.

You are wrong here. Georgia in 2008 was equipped with the newest US weapon and trained by the US instructors. The Russian army in 2008 has almost no professionals. Today the Ukrainian army is much weaker than Georgian one was back in 2008 (old weapon, luck of pros etc). In the same time, Russia has changed its military doctrine and focused on hybrid war tactics. Find more here: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2015/02...already-at-war (a 100,000 high professional troops is enough for any local conflict).

As about the Ukrainians. Yes, it's a big country but not many are willing to fight and die for Poroshenko. A typical story for you: https://translate.google.com/transla...F&edi t-text= - you may consider this Ukrainian citizen a "ruskie rebel" from now.

As about the escalation. The USA will never send its troops to die in the Russian zone of influence. Their president will be kicked off White House just immediately. They are unable to deal with ISIS, so there could be no talks about some kind of any direct support to the Ukrainian army. It will be a suicide for Obama and 1000's of coffins for American families.

Not sure is it so easy but there would be no suffering and no one would try to defend that Russian army went straight for Kiev. Nazis and US (German) supported warmongers would run away to get their next task from uncle Sam and people would save their lives and economy wouldn't be ruined.

I doubt that it is about bravery. It is more about keeping some country occupied. What would be use of Russia to take whole Ukraine that is broke anyway? Russia is not US so that they must conquer and take others wealth to survive. Ukraine is not Iraq or Libya that are full of gas (money). Ukraine is not serious country (and it never was) and it won't ever be. It is like adopting retarded kid. Nothing good would come from that. ....it is better to control half of country ,and that part where people already love and want you and where is most industry located. Let them have own country (Novorussia) that is completely dependent on Russia.(like what US did in Balkans, created small puppet states that are not capable of deciding on their own).

Actually, whole Ukraine is completely dependent on Russia what previous president clearely understood. Ukraine don't have a future. What is left from Ukraine will be poorest country in Europe in incoming decades. This time, without any chance to fix that because they will be drowned in US and EU credits that will be used to buy social peace (mostly) or buy US weapons.

Like in every country that had coup d'état organized form outside, small % of people will become rich and most of people will be slaves. It was incredible stupid move to try to break away from Russia that was letting you steal gas and giving money and cheap gas.

Ukraine could at least get some money from taxes for gas transit, now it is even left without that. Their future is long ans slow death in poverty.

Beside that, it would be historical mistake to go in open war with neibghours' and once blood is there, things won't be possible to fix,never. I know what I am talking about, I ve witnessed that shit and real life stories from those situations are TERRIBLE.

So , long term, Russia took Crimea and naval base (what would anyone there expect, to leave it to US ?) , will have new controlled state, and punished another part of country as example how it looks to turn back to older brother. Long term,it is a win.

agree with femdomdestiny..

cyberseo, by us+nato direct support I meant to say direct financing and providing weapons, it wouldn't really make a difference but it could kill a lot of Russian troops and things could get real ugly... also it would be a complete Russian isolation, ruble would keep falling, people loose more jobs, people in Russia wouldn't be happy... Nato would say Russian invasion direct thread to Europe and they could easily supply 1-10bill+ worth of weapons to Ukraine... and like femdomdestiny said, let's assume Russia takes over Ukraine, then they need to support bankrupt country and that's just stupid.

It didn't work in Georgia. Why should it work here?

Ruble, Russian economics, people "happiness" - this is all about oil prices. I'd say ONLY about oil prices.

Read about so-called 5-day Georgian war. Russia did took over Tbilisi and did not occupied the another country. The Georgian army was destroyed and the rebel territories got their independence. No war there anymore, no more victims. Everything was done during 5 days only.

P.S. You can sell them 100000000bill+ worth of weapons and it will be resold to 3rd countries like Syria. Weapon is nothing if there is nobody who can (and will) use it in a proper way.

Too bad we're being flushed out by our own Government.

Do you mean Italian government? What's wrong with your new government now?

2femdomdestiny: A small fix to my yesterdays post: Russia did NOT took over Tbilisi and did not occupied the another country (Georgia). The same should be done to Ukraine. The military conflict there must be stopped w/o occupying or annexing any pars of the Ukraine.

The Russians are using "salami" tactics and it's working. :2 cents:

AGAIN. :2 cents:

What's wrong with Italy, ruskie?

it will be clear soon enough. the current cease fire went into place with specific stipulations, and the OSCE have drones flying around all over the place.

since the right wing nationalists have publicly stated they will not be disarmed, this cease-fire will be like the last cease-fire, but this time will be documented on film by european watchdogs.

Patriots you mean, right?

War in this day & age? A country should feel safe, everyone should feel free. Power goes to leaderships head, especially Russians, those poor people :2 cents:

i certainly hope they are patriots..

This ceasefire will never work out, Putin signed it only to buy time for his war plan.
Ukrainian and western leaders are so naive that they have fallen more then once into his chess playing schemes. The dangerous of all this is that we are closer to an all nuclear war then we were in the cold war years.


He plans in invading Ukraine from the south and east and then blame west that he had invaded because he was forced too.

At least one wizard here who can read Putin's mind :2 cents:

still waiting for your answers to my questions, here's a few more for you:

4. If Russia was thinking about arming English side that overthrew democratically elected president, how would USA react to that?

5. Why Canada, Scotland are allowed to have referendums to separate, but in Ukraine is a big no no?

6. Why did Western powers approved Yugoslavian separation, but Ukraine is a huge problem?

waiting on your answers

I won't argue because we'll waist time and it'll be pointless, it wouldn't be that simple with Ukraine situation. Putin has a lot of bright people working in the government who know a lot more then me and you on gfy, I'm sure they run through many scenarios and came up with the most optimal.

You are trying to reverse the situation into something it's not. Your questions are irrelevant and hold no basis on the situation at hand.


The situation isn't the US arming Ukraine so Russia stepped in. The situation is Russia has invaded another country stolen part of it and is trying to take more by force. At the same time claiming to be doing nothing as if everyone else is idiots. Ukraine is "asking" for help to defend against Russia's aggression.

As for your other votes.. None of those were forced at gun point to vote for separation, with only 15% of the population voting in favor..


Stop being so fucking brainwashed.

your answers are always full of ignorance ,stupidity and with avoided basic logic. I suggest you try to monetize that phenomenon, by letting proper people to study you.

So let me guess another one whom thinks there are no Russian troops in Ukraine..

They did not approved, they pushed country into war by arming and helping bloody solution (Three sides in Bosnia agreed on peace : Croats, Serbs and Muslims, and muslim side canceled that deal after visit to US and promised help. Precisely what they are doing now in Ukraine.

Anyway, trying to make comparation and look for justice won't help. This is about big powers and about profit. Simple as that. It was peaceful country until someone decided to change government by force and resolve other "issues" by force. that is all.

Here is easy proof of Russian Military and supplies in Ukraine..

https://wp4553-flywheel.netdna-ssl.c.../01/MRAP-2.jpg

Ukraine Military does not have these Armored transports, but Russia has them..

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...olled-ukraine/


RPG-30 Once again a weapon which Ukraine forces do not have as they have only been in production since 2013.

http://www.euractiv.com/files/styles...?itok=bHfKBnNN


Look it's fucking amazing how many armored transports those Russian separatist have managed to "find". Even more amazing they all happen to find the exact same uniforms.. Fucking amazing these little Ruski separatist are, I tell you. I bet they just happened to find this stuff laying around with signs saying Free guns & ammo..

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Internat...28_4x3_992.jpg


Do you little brainwashed Ruski's need more or do you just expect everyone to believe your bullshit?

i'll summerize the problem in a more diplomatic way:

journal, magazines and books ?

No, I believe they are there. Otherwise, all those people there would end like those burned alive in Odessa . Problem is that there are no enough of them and they are playing absolutely same game NATO did in Yugoslavia. Lying while supporting one side. There is a good reason why NATO lied: they helped nazi lovers in ex YU, and muslim terrorists ,and they did it from countries miles away (including absolute supervision and support of real ethnic cleansing)

But Russians don't have to do it because nazis are on their own borders and there was attack on Russian population (language and existence). So , as I am concerned, they should invade on full scale and solve that shit fast and quick. If US can go thousands miles away, giving false info (for example WMD) and invade countries, why Russia don't to same. They have moral right ,at first place.

Maybe NATO is irritated because they are not able to provide real evidences, or because no one is believing in more lies after years of falsified excuses for war and devastation. But that is their problem. All this mess wouldn't look like that that NATO (US, because others are just puppets) didn't took Kosovo by force. Russia warned where it will lead, 15 years ago but no one listened.

All this are simple results of arrogance and disrespect of international laws that "west" did many years ago.

You are just ruski sympathizer, nothing more deep in that. But let me ask, if it was OK for nazis attack and kill bunch off people (like Russia does), why you are constantly complaining about nazis and accusing people as nazis? If it is OK to be asshole, then why you are complaining? Or if it isn't OK to be asshole, then why are you supporting Russia being asshole?

Are you nazi? You support that kind of stuff, what they did. You know, attacking fellow countries and such.

because it's a good charge if you are looking for an excuse to attack someone.
In france, there is nazis everywhere: muslims are nazis, putin is nazi, left wing if nazi, right wing is nazi, someone who dare to claim something else that socialist= nazi and so on...
How many self proclaimed nazis in france ? once i heard something like 3000

Nazis were national socialists. :)

no one is doing what peace treaty states.

Sorry, but I would have to go deep below my level to try to communicate with you, so your infantile comparison will remain unanswered , as I am concerned.

that peace treaty was a try to save 8K ukranian and NATO soldiers that are now surrounded. They got offer to leave guns and go out alive . But ,in that case NATO soldiers would be shown, what wold make problem to western mentors.

French nazis claim the same thing :winkwink: