FYI, plastic pollution is a global problem. You can try and make it about some sort of lack of lessons USA parents teach our children, but that only makes you look sillier than you already do by not knowing these 2 topics are not discussed in the same context.

crockett, that only shows different times that the Earth was different temps and had different quantities of different gases in the atmosphere. Which shows that there is NO "normal" for the Earth.
It is ever-changing and ever-evolving.

Again, you posted that trash pic, not me.

Plastic pollution is a global problem, but not trashing is not very high end science, and it is about teaching kids, and adults too if necessary. Excluding the plastic that comes from washing clothes. Solving that requires for some higher end science, or banning certain type of products.

Nice to see that, unlike some other alarmists here, you are able to respond in a polite and civil manner. When people agree to disagree it can turn heated arguments into calm discussion.

Anyways, the questions I posted above were largely rhetorical. I think you understand that there are no definitive answers to those questions.

What is known right now though, is that the current average temperature of the Earth is well below what the average has been for the majority of the earth's history. Compared to most of that history we are about as low as the earth has ever been. Staying at this temperature or cooling even further is the anomalous condition whereas warming is a step toward returning to normal. Even the last interglacial period, the Eemian, was up to 4 degrees warmer than today despite having a lower CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.

There are far greater forces at play here than CO2 concentration and I think it is nothing but human hubris to think we can significantly affect the outcome either way.


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and that is exactly my point, I am glad someone is on the same page.

the problem is the debate about climate change distracts people from the littering problem, which is made worse by how simple it is to not be a litterbug, such as stopping using single serving plastic containers or stopping flicking cigarette butts into the street.
both done by people hypocritically goading others that the science of manmade climate change is settled and they need to do something about that.

here's a youtube that illustrates my point.



back in the day we had a very simple ad campaign that was very effective because it focused on personal action, not pie in the sky science concepts to curb pollution

the Carbon issue is big business polluting, not you and me. nevertheless, that is supported indirectly by people who buy EV cars and such thinking that adding a car to the total is helping. but the opportunity for US to make an impactful change is what we can do with our personal behavior.

the litter (plastic) issue is a pollution problem that each of us can make a profound diffrence about and very simply too.

sometimes your insight is just so on the money & stated 50 times better than anything i coulda said. nice!

this comment is why you fail. Humans cannot & will never yield the collective power to stop how we effect the climate. to even try would be a total waste of energy cause someone else will cheat, human nature. & theres no proof what we're doing is any threat whatsoever to our continued existence. overpopulation & nuclear terrorism are far greater existential threats to mankind than a melting glacier. get with it, man!

you should worry about the islamic bomb. look how the instability & irans ambitions converge somewhere in the next 2 generations.

Climate change is just a 1,500 year cycle:
http://www.clim-past.net/3/569/2007/cp-3-569-2007.pdf

Hi Joshua,

So... are you saying we should just do nothing about it at all?

Agreed. Accept or deny the science, it would not hurt for anyone to be a little more green. Reduce energy use, recycle, take your bike to work instead of your car, etc.

That's weather. Weather isn't climate.

I'd disagree. I think there ARE real answers out there, but there is too much opposition fuelled by big business to keep people consuming and wasting the way they are now, preventing enough people from considering alternatives.

There is no "we".

What is being "done" is a group of very rich people are getting richer through the whole "carbon trading" scheme.
Not sure if that has done anything at all to "fix" the "problem" that you believe mankind is responsible for.

I'm pretty sure that not one rational person would say "No, we should pollute more!"

But this isn't about pollution. It's about an industry using scare tactics and fearmongering to make billions of dollars.

Hi Eon,


To clarify, it's not just C02. It's Co2, Methane, and other "greenhouse gasses" that collect high in the atmosphere and reflect heat back to the earth.

I also partially agree with you that there is more to the problem than just CO2, and I agree that deforestation is also part of the problem. We need forests to absorb CO2 from the air and put it into the ground, right? Right. It's the combination of excess production of C02 into the air AND the reduction of forests together that is causing the problem.

I know. And not just those poor creatures... lots of others too. Very fucking sad.

Hi again Eon,

Nobody is a greater authority on the status of our planet than Nasa, National Geographic and NOAA. Here are their answers to your questions:

"average surface temperatures could rise between 2°C and 6°C by the end of the 21st century."
Global Warming : Feature Articles




"In Earth’s history before the Industrial Revolution, Earth’s climate changed due to natural causes not related to human activity. Most often, global climate has changed because of variations in sunlight......These natural causes are still in play today, but their influence is too small or they occur too slowly to explain the rapid warming seen in recent decades."

Global Warming : Feature Articles



"Core samples, tide gauge readings, and, most recently, satellite measurements tell us that over the past century, the Global Mean Sea Level (GMSL) has risen by 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). However, the annual rate of rise over the past 20 years has been 0.13 inches (3.2 millimeters) a year, roughly twice the average speed of the preceding 80 years."

Sea Level Rise -- National Geographic

How Much Is Too Much?: Estimating Greenhouse Gas Emissions - Scientific American

You understand that intellectually, the human race has a finite timeline. So if we push it up a bit by driving an SUV, it is all pretty relative in the long run.

WOOHOO!
I have trust property along the southwestern edge of The San Joaquin Valley

http://i.imgur.com/dzS3SMG.png

BEACHFRONT BABY! BRING IT ON!!


:1orglaugh


Actually the San Joaquin Valley has already been an inland sea at one point in the past, it is known as the Temblor Sea and you can dig up prehistoric shark's teeth just outside of Bakersfield.

Ancient sea life thrived in Central Valley - SFGate



nothing is forever

Don't China, India, etc pollute more than anyone in North America could ever hope to offset by any means?

National Geographic? Nice pictures but I would rate them pretty much near the bottom as an authority on climate.

NASA and NOAA are political entities and as such are tainted. If Obama tells them to fudge the data they do it.

Do you honestly think that any government employee at either of those institutions is going to step over the line when the Dictator/Emperor does stuff like this:

Call out climate change deniers

There is a full blown democrat led McCarthy style witch-hunt going on right now for scientists who fail to accept the dogma.

Read these:

The last climate science witch hunt

Save Willie: The global warming movement is anti-science, oblivious to how little we know about climate

Roger Pielke Jr.: I am Under ?Investigation?


That only says what they estimate it will rise based on the assumption that increased CO2 continues to cause increased warming. It doesn't answer what the natural rate might be absent any human influence. It is entirely possible that all of the increase is natural and very likely that their estimates are way off. Their guess is not an answer.


Again that doesn't answer the question - what is the ideal temperature for the planet? Like I said before we are near all time historic lows for temperature. Life has flourished in greater quantity in warmer temperatures than we have now. The history of the planet did not begin 80 years ago.

Keep in mind - frost and ice = death, warmth = life - except of course for the very few species adapted to life in frost and ice. Just compare the abundance of life in the equatorial rainforests to the scarcity of life at the frozen poles.


Another non-answer. During the Eemian sea levels were up to 20 feet higher than today. Where in the variance of +/-20 feet is the ideal sea level? If Eemian sea level rise was natural, why can't current sea level rise be natural? Again, the history of the planet did not begin 80 years ago.


That's just more hype based on the theory that increased CO2 leads to a linear increase in temperature. It doesn't. The planet has had periods of 8000 ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere and life flourished. Why all of the sudden is 500 ppm going to be a catastrophe for the planet? It's not.

Congrats for trying but none of the questions were actually answered.


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We ain't have no timeline, other than past. Unless you mean that we evolve to something that is to be considered as a different specie. That is going to take more than 5000 years. We have already lived as modern humans about 200-250 000 years. If we fuck it up next 5000 years by driving SUVs, it isn't worth it. Although SUVs won't do it, but you get the point.

And still, even if it is finite (speculating), when you steal the time; you steal from others. I don't think those others will care much about your relative bullshit.

Actually, it shows there is a "normal" in the time frame of our ability to live on this planet. It shows that the Earth has different extremes and is capable of becoming uninhabitable for humans. I don't know about you, but I'm not selfish enough to only be concerned about my own life, but I do hope this planet is here and capable of supporting Human life long after I'm gone.

I'd hope that as humans and having intelligence much higher than those monkeys hanging around in trees that we would do what ever possible to keep this planet habitable for a long long time.

That's simply not true. Humans have existed on Earth for around 6 million years. Through much warmer temps and much colder.

Looking at data from the last hundred years is pretty meaningless as to climate change. Scientists simply don't KNOW what's coming next. For all they know a volcanic eruption could occur tomorrow that will plunge us into an Ice Age that kills our species.

I'm not saying that IF we know 100% that something is bad (like blowing up the planet with nuclear weapons) that we should do it anyway.

I just fail to see how people making billions of dollars off of carbon credit trading is "helping" this imaginary "problem".

as far as collective efforts like carbon caps/taxes, or subsidizing noneconomically viable technology, we should not do those things. they make business less efficient for nothing gained. we dont have the power to stop ourselves from warming the earth while the population continues to explode. even going to clean energy will not address other externalities created by too many people.

as far as smog limits & improving fuel efficiency, i do support those efforts primarily for quality of life (i want clean air/water) & resource conservation, a different topic than global warming.

whaever we are doing to warm the earth will not make it unsustainable to us, humans live in the tropics & in canada. more tropics is not a bad direction to go. we will kill ourselves at least 2 other ways before the earth gets too hot for us.

:2 cents:

No, only point you proved is how moronic your fact finding abilities are.

I think written language is about 5k years old. In those terms 5k more years is pretty good.

No, the opposite. If we have been writing during 5000 years in our 250 000 years existence; 5000 years is not that much. Our ancestors have been surviving hundreds of thousands years and millions of years if observed as Homos. If we fuck it up any time soon; it won't be very proud moment.

Yep, they lived through MUCH hotter climates and MUCH colder ones too.

Oh wait a minute...people TODAY live in very hot and very cold places too. :)

Yes, we do. That is why humans are not going to get extinct because of climate change. At least per se. Although that hasn't been the scenario to start with.

Based on your messages I assume that you have taken some nothing matters approach, common to some folks regarding these issues. Or usually it is that others don't matter; "There shall be flood after me.", that saying is much older than this whole climate change stuff.

I get it. I am just not really willing to do much. I don't deny it like others on here as I see the facts. I just do not want to give up my car etc.

Just goes to show that words on a message board don't always convey the true meaning...or else you are not wanting to hear what I am saying my thoughts on it are.

So here is what I see:

The Earth's climate is going to change no matter what. There is absolutely nothing that scientists can do about that. Nothing.
Also, it's not even a "bad" thing that it is changing. It's not going to kill us or destroy civilization. Unless a catastrophic NATURAL event happens, the human race is perfectly capable of living in much warmer and much cooler temps either way.

In the meantime...some very rich corporations are getting a lot richer with scaring the shit out of people by claiming that CO2 produced by man is causing the Earth to get warmer and that will kill us all.
So in order to "fight" that...they are going to create carbon trading and make billions of dollars.

In other words, as usual, it's all about money.
As I've said before...if it were a real threat, the govt. leaders around the world would respond to it (just like we did for WW2).
Instead they are more worried about the latest boogieman in the Middle East (which we are bombing and creating more pollution and "carbon footprints" with our military than all the cars in the world put together)

Hope that makes my own position more clear to you so you don't have to ponder my thoughts and insult me.
YOU are the one buying into it. And if you were old enough to be an adult in the 1970's you would be agreeing with the "settled science" that we were going into an Ice Age because of mankind.
And the 1970 govt. memo during the Richard Nixon administration that claimed that the entire Eastern seaboard was 100% going to be underwater before the year 2000.
Yep, that was the greatest scientists on Earth making those claims as well.

It's all about money and power. When shit gets real, you will know it. The country would mobilize (just like the threat during WW2) and the games will be over.

Do you see that happening? Or do you see our politicians riding in limousines and big private jets while they order our military to fly jet planes, ride in heavy tanks, sail on giant aircraft carriers, and bomb the hell out of other countries?

You should really consider that.

Anytime I see people saying "Do as I say, not as I do" ... I question it.

You only seem to be questioning the people who DO question govt.

You are the perfect mark.

Think about what I'm saying 20 years from now. Unless a meteor hits the Earth or a volcano erupts of such power that it creates a nuclear winter...NOTHING will change.
Except some people will get much, much richer from the fear mongering.

Your answers are quite "empty". First of all, no-one hasn't said that Earth's climate isn't changing or that we can stop it changing, at least with current methods, if there is even will for it. The whole issue is about human's impact to Earth's climate, not about sun's impact, not about our orbit's, not about vulcano's; human's impact. So what the fuck is this talk that Earth's climate changing naturally? That is not the subject.

Earth's climate changing is bad thing. We have built our civilization based on current climate. There is lot of stuff between extinction and everything being okay. For example USA is so, so sad about 911 events. So why? You didn't get extinct and dying is totally natural thing. Might there be some other reason to be sad, than just getting extinct?

About companies; companies in generally don't benefit from lessening human's impact to climate; very opposite. Some companies might have some carbon rights to sell, but there is that bying end that pays for it. In generally this battle costs and companies in general are not very willing to pay that price.

About politics who drive with limousines and bomb places; those are your politicians, not mine.

What is about that 20 years timeline? From where did you get that? And even in that time things change, but the timeline has nothing to do with nothing; besides maybe about your own ass.

6 months ago, you admitted it existed. Did you back track? Homo sapient are about 200,000 years old.

Admitted what existed? Man made global warming? I haven't "admitted" anything like that! (thought the word "admitted" doesn't have any meaning here)

And yes, homo sapiens are about 200,000 years old. But humans have been on Earth a couple of million years in other "Homo" (quit laughing) forms and using tools etc.

But yes, "modern" man is 200,000 years old.

What does any of that have to do with what I said about people making billions of dollars in the "carbon trading" market to "fix" "man made global warming"

And how does it change what I said about humans living in all kinds of extreme climates...even today?

You are missing the entire point I'm trying to make.

You are being used through fear mongering to make people very, very rich. IF there was a true danger to the human race, you would see the govt. actually mobilize the country and act like it.

Instead...our politicians fly in private jets, ride in big limousines, and send our giant military out to fly jets, sail in enormous aircraft carriers, ride around in tanks, and bomb the fuck out of other countries.

IF you driving your car is going to cause us all to be in peril because the Earth's temps might go up 5 degrees over a long period of time...then what the hell do you think all the things I just listed are doing?

Our politicians are saying "Do as I say, not as I do"

None of you guys attacking me are addressing what I am asking.

As Bob Dylan once wrote: "If something ain't right, it's wrong".

And something definitely is NOT right.

Everything from what I just typed about the govt.'s actions, to the fact that these scientists predictions have been wrong over and over on this subject.

We are being railroaded and scammed for money. That's my thought on the subject.
It's still a free country. I hope you don't mind if I disagree with the alarmists point of view.

In my opinion...the "alarmists" are the true "deniers" because they refuse to acknowledge the very real possibility that this whole thing is being used to make billions of dollars.
They won't even slightly entertain the thought. Even with all I just said and even with all the failed "settled science" of the last 40+ years on this subject.

Apparently if I don't fall in line and go with whatever story is being told THIS decade concerning "man made global warming" then I am obviously just not as clever as you guys are.

As I already said...look back in 20 years and see what became of all of this. Nothing will have changed. I would say come back in a thousand years...but conveniently (for alarmists), we will all be long dead.

Another Ice Age would suck so bad.. It would be SOOOO cold!

Then the survivors would be sacrificing each other to the ice gods to get some global warming.

You live in California. About the same latitude as southernmost Europe/ North Africa.

http://www.iceagenow.com/Glacial_Maximum_World_Map.jpg

So what are you saying??

How you know where I live?

Petition signed that says there is no evidence of global warming

Global Warming Petition Project

31,487 American scientists have signed this petition,
including 9,029 with PhDs

This proves it!!!Finally you cracked the case.

Satellite Data Says 2014 Not Warmest On Record | The Daily Caller

So where's this proof that there is global warming?

http://m4gw.com/wp-content/uploads/2...telliteMap.jpg

Watch out. The alarmists are going to come for you.

http://i.imgur.com/BbnmaMOl.jpg

:1orglaugh


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Do you have to be a moron every time you post?

Al Gore predicted that oceans would rise 20 feet by 2100, it looks like were on track for about a foot. 80% of the tide gauges show less rise than the official “global average”. Many tide gauges show no rise in sea level, and almost none show any acceleration over the past 20 years.

2014 saw record snowfall in many areas, remember when they said that global warming would cause snow to disappear and children won’t know what snow is.

In 2014 NASA finally launched a satellite that measures CO2 levels around the globe. They assumed that most of the CO2 would be coming from the industrialized northern hemisphere but much to their surprise it was coming from the rainforests in South America, Africa and China.

In 2014 there was record sea ice in Antarctica in fact a global warming expedition got stuck in it. Arctic sea ice has also made a nice comeback in 2014. The Great lakes had record ice Lake Superior only had 3 ice free months in 2014. You’d think that in the hottest year ever that ice would be melting like Al Gore said.

Is that what Bronc looks like?

I love living in LA, how many of you are snowed in right now or dreading going outside? I rode around on my bike in a t shirt today!

Dynamo :

The topic of this thread is "Why is global warming so threatening?", and you changed the subject and posted a picture of trash.

Of course trash, especially plastic bottles and other plastic items in the oceans is a seriously fucked up problem. However, Aka123 is right, and you are wrong.



Robbie, what Crockett said is exactly right, and your argument is wrong. While its true that the earth's atmosphere is dynamic, the right amount of gasses has to be maintained if life on earth is going to continue to exist in relative comfort. Man is disturbing the ratio by pumping way too much greenhouse gasses into the air, and the damage it is causing and will cause down the road can be seen right now. It's important that people realize this before its too late.

Ya. Had to help push 3 cars today that were stuck trying to get into driveways and had to shovel heavy, slushy, compacted snow that the plow pushed up at the end of the driveway.

:disgust



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