Holland can pay the slave trade processes with the money we still get from Germany.
After that we go after France cause Napoleon also made a mess here.

You have to admit the idea of the Euro is good and solid. It had to make traveling in Europe much, much easier. I could only imagine the cluster fuck it would be if in the US we had a different currency in every state.. :2 cents:

One money exchange rate has a lot of benefits, but obviously there will be problems to go along with it..

exactly, so you see ? no point in that at all.

and how is that ? its not so hard to count....and with euro prices are very often higher

I don't think that Indonesia can give lessons when it comes about genocides...

most of you are too young to remember (or not even being born then) how it was with closed borders and different currencies everywhere

and most of you don't make enough to worry about accounting in 20 or 30 different currencies

you all just cry cry cry and have no clue

:2 cents:

I mean Holland pay Indonesia.
and Indonesia can pay Papuas for all the shit since 1960's :winkwink:
oh and France will supply croissant, baguette Y cafe for every black man in Africa.
they will also repay what Haiti pay them in 1800's.

exactly, I told that euro is good for german companies that export and you are just proving it :winkwink:

my company is in CZ and i still have to deal with czech crowns - annoying

it costs me extra money for my tax accountant because he has to calculate exchange rates all the time

euro and usd would be enough for me

but i realize by now that most here get maybe 100 or 200 a month by paxum that they never pay taxes on and therefore know shit about how business works

.. as long as we do not hear anymore about the holocaust :2 cents:

Fiddy post that are not about riots

you assume a fucking lot ..... kiddo !

I said 4-5 years ago, they should never have joined the euro partnership.

What a waste and what a bunch of weak politicians that is running europe today.

If you say so

That is how we got tricked in it. Governments saying that it is so easy to have 1 currency. But forgetting that if you have 1 currency you need to set up a political and econmical structure. Like setting up a European Bank Union. They just started that, cause during the crisis they hadn't enough mechanisms. And Greece has a history of devaluation, you don't change that. But the politicians thought they could make it 1 big central coordinated Union.

For business it can be easy to have 1 currency. But for holidays? Come on, you just but your card in the ATM and you have local currency. It is not like 30 years ago that you would need a travel cheque for you 2 week holiday per year.

And the Greek go earlier on retirement. But in Holland we had hundrerd of thousands people working for the government that only worked till they where 60 while the official age of retirement was 65. The reason the age is 67 is not because there is work. But because the government want to use your retirement funds. 20 years ago there where a lot uf retirement funds, till the president decide to steal billions of euro's here in the Netherlands. So now there is a shortage and everybody needs to work longer. Don't believe the storytellers about working till you are 67.

I don't see why i would be against working till 57. The government also tries to keep my money in their pocket till i am 67. If people have more spare time they can watch and buy more porn.

well you know what the Greeks say?

The Germans could just give back all the money and stuff they stole during world war 2 and the Greeks would be able to pay the debt in full with extra to spare.

Dunno what's true about the amount of money/stuff stolen during ww2, but this is not a solution, because it won't cure the problem, only the outcome. So in 10-20-30 years they will be in the same debt as now..

Though as you don't pay VAT for exports, that part is easier, and you can accept/have payments in your own currency or have two accounting currencies (like USD and euro).

The real shit is the regulations, those are even in EU area still quite diverse; I mean if you want to obey those. But even now many companies just sell/ send all kinds of shit everywhere and with every style, no matter is it legal in the receiving country or not. As the risk for the sending company is quite low, unless they send container loads of the illegal stuff, or something like that.

Of course the situation is not the same for every company. For example Finnish paper industry received the payments in German marks before euro. But despite of the euro some companies still use much other currencies like USD, because of the nature of business; like Finnish Neste Oil (it buys oil in $).

All true. People who *think* that working til you are 1 step away from the coffin is for the 'greater good', are perfectly brainwashed modern slaves.

You cannot trust governments. You can't say 'Oh we have to work until we are old and grey, or the government doesn't have any money anymore for society'. That is very, very naive. Just a while ago, after major cutbacks, higher taxes, more expensive healthcare, and how can i forget the VAT a few years ago that went from decades of 19% all of a sudden to 21%. Do you realize how much fucking extra money that is for the government? It's fucking huge.

After all that, the puppets in politics all say 'it are hard times, we have to do this, everybody needs to chip in', making everybody accept all this blatant stealing from them.

Then, at the end of last year, the EU demands this country to pay an 'after-tax' to the fat cats of the EU of the sum of ?642 million. Ofcourse our government all of a sudden has this money and pays up. What? I thought there wasn't any money anymore?
Now im reading that the EU just set another after tax for Holland of an extra ?200 million.... WTF? Ofcourse the government is paying this as well... It's so easy apparently to milk the people for every penny they got, claim to need to money because there isn't anything left, and ultimately throw away close to a billion euros to the EU mafia bosses, because the dutch government is used to bending over to bigger entities. They get fucked, and we get fucked by them. Great system :thumbsup

once again - that is right now just propaganda.

IF the claim is legit - and hundreds of lawyers and historians will be busy with this for a while - there are already many Germans that say that this would need to be honored

BUT: this has nothing to do with how the greek government(s) handles money and their economy. that has to change - now.

And the list of countries that were able to change is long - just recently Ireland and Portugal

and for the rest i refer to my earlier posts

this is correct


and i always thought you are self employed - so what keeps you from retiring at 57?

Yeah, it is prtetty much free booze & giros for every holiday we're ever gonna take there ;-)

I Always worked for myself. And maybe i stop working when i am 57 :) But at this moment i work and too young to stop working.

But with a lot of things you arrange for your retirement they just pay out when you are 67... or you must arrange everything yourself without extra tax reduction you normally would have when you retire at 67. So it also cost me money. I have seen a lot of people that didn't make it till they where 67 and died (much) earlier. So i think it is also better to arrange your retirement yourself. If you do it with pension funds and you and your partner die, everything goes to the government. But if you arrange it yourself and you die, you can let it flow to your family instead of to the government (where it will end up in Greece).

But i am not alone, would love to see my Mom living in France. But with a younger man that suddenly has to work 2 years longer it will take 2 years extra for that while he is working since he was 16... I am not thinking about my retirement, i will take care. But also for others. If the government didn't steal the pension funds in the '80s there would be enough to retire at 60 years.

I can tell you another example. When you want to live in Costa Rica with your Dutch 'government' pension they will give you only 50% of the normal amount! Cause they can't check if you are living together, they give you lesss cause they asume that you are living with a partner.... And cause you live in a land where the income is lower the Dutch government give you an extra % less off of the money you saved. It is not the other way around, when you decide to live in a land that is more expensive, they won't give you extra pension.
So i think you understand that i am not counting on -and paying my government for that. I prefer saving money my self, the government can't be trusted.

And for the work that has to be done. More and more Dutch people are unemployed cause it is cheaper to get someone from Poland.
So when they put up the retirement age went to 67 they knew most of the oldies would get unemployed.
Better take a young strong man from Poland.

I am in Mexico now. I am glad there is no Euro here. I still have the same exchange rate for pesos as 6 months ago.

that's a specific dutch thing, has nothing to do with the EU or Euro

basic line is - a government cannot spend money it doesn't have.

if you want to retire at 57, your mum too and everyone else then someone has to pay for it

and that usually means higher taxes for those who work

now we can debate endlessly how governments waste money on certain things but overall this won't change a lot - maybe 1 or 2% in the the tax rate

so that you, your family and everyone else can sit in the sun at 57 and have a nice pension, every working person and company would probably have to pay 50-60% income tax. good luck with that

and btw - this is exactly how Greece ruined itself

money is not magically being shit from some donkeys ass

modern pension and retirements system are one of the biggest robberies in the world.
very often if you'd just save money by yourself what you are giving government every month, you would get better money at the end.
PLUS, you could receive whole amount when you are, for example 67. and with government system - you are betting with your government that you will live longer than, lets say 80 years old.
if you live shorter, it is another argument that it wasnt worth it at all.
and tercero - this money is the best LOAN that any government can receive, better than bonds. no % interest rates on it, just free loan for government - like Bjorn said, and sometimes they will blindly steal it from you.

are you sure that Dutch people would gladly take jobs that Polish people do ? I highly doubt about it :)

oh - i won't argue with that - and i am 43 years old and have studied business management and a little bit of economics. and i have paid into the pension system for myself while i was employed and also paid for my employees. so i don't think there's anything you said that i did not know yet.

and as someone that pays for employees that will receive pension one day: Most smaller businesses will not be able to afford what it costs to have everyone retire on a nice pension at 57

this makes it difficult to discuss this with people that live in moms basement, or are employed or just work for themselves

sorry if that sounds rude

I tell you again. When there is no work, see new robot technologies, than there is no work.
Nobody is going to hire a 60 year old person while you can have a 20 year old (maybe from Poland) for half the money. If that persons retires at 60, 2 younger people can wok for the same money. So that 60 year old person in not taking pensions but unemployment fee, what is the difference?

PS, the dutch wellfare systems isn't made by working hard. But because we where Lucky we have some gas and oil.

Yes, i know truckdrivers who lost their jobs to Polish people. Also people working at construction etcetra. The Polish are not hired cause they do dirty jobs. But because they are much cheaper. Even the dutch Government buildings are now renovated by Polish people cause that is cheaper. So while Dutch people are too old and that way too expensive the Ducth government wants them to work till they are 67?

Strange isn it :)

Somehow governments do seem to pull it out of their asses. See my previous post.

First they don't have any money. When EU bossman demands government to pay an extra almost ?1 billion to EU, they suddenly do have it! All the while they've plucked the people for every last penny. So they are not only stealing from everyone, but the lie and spit them in the face to boot.

I think you look at it from a point of view where they are relatively fair an honest. If they were, then what you said is 100% correct. But they are the opposite of fair and honest. They say 'no money' so yes, when that's really true, it's logical people have to work longer and pay more taxes. But they lie. So they can grab more and more of our hard earned cash, when it's not even necessary. Greedy, dirty fucks, and here in Holland it's the greediest government you've ever seen.

I'm not sure who you mean exactly, but it doesnt matter...
you seem to miss my point - whole pension system is robbery and thievery so why to have it ? it doesnt matter if you will work until 65, 67, or 60.
why not let people decide for themselves instead of robbers/thieves in government ?

I dont think so... they are all psychopaths ....
but anyway: how is Snowden's asylum request going in Holland ? the same as in Germany ? haha

i don't know how old you are but i remember very well the times when there was messages of doom every week in the news how robots will take over everything and everyone will be out of work

robots came and the unemployment rate at least in Germany today is lower than back then

why?

because since then for example the internet, the IT industry, mobile industry etc came up and created millions of new jobs

you think "robots" will do your work too?

and just another example - Volkswagen had 192,000 employees in 1972 - then the robots came - and last year they had almost 600,000 employees

this is an absurd discussion - robots.... will robots also wipe your ass when you're old and can't move anymore?

jeez...

because people are stupid and will blow the money instead of investing it

and since you can't let people starve and freeze, the government will have to jump in and spend the money at that point

i am all for discussing how a pension system can be better but letting all people decide on their own - see also health care - doesn't work.

I am not afraid that i won't have work. We are in the right ict industry.

In Holland the government is thinking of giving older people less money for their work.
Old people are too expensive so they could earn less in their opinion. There is 1 europe and it is much easier o'r get cheaper labour from Poland etcetra.

The car companies could grow because there is a mich bigger market now than in 1972. More people can affort a car, also in former third world countries. Even in mexico there are new Volkswagen and Mercedes factories. And that is why they wanted the EU, cause than you can make poor countries richer so you have a new market for your products.

Why do you have problems with retiring at 60? Don't you prefer 2 young guys working for you instead of 1 old man? Especially in the ICT? I won't invest in a programmer over 55 years old.

to me it simply sounds as if you have a shitty government in Holland


yes, oh the horror, making poor countries richer, what an insane plan. :upsidedow

ever compared most eastern European countries today to 1989? or Spain, Portugal in comparison when they were still dictatorships 40 years ago?

i guess we have a general different understanding - i also value experience and efficiency, not just birth date

and I plan to retire way before 60 - unless i just have fun keeping on

and that is the typical socialist/thievery thinking
while I understand why healthcare insurance is necessary and I approve it 100 %, I dont understand why people are forced to pay their monthly pensions fund...while it is not effective at all.

Not if UKIP had anything to say with it :1orglaugh



P.S. They won't

cs cunt afford a robot :(

Same shit in Hungary, as soon as even a hint of the Euro was announced, prices jumped by leaps and bounds !:disgust