shitty spin attempt.

go back and read what you wrote that i was replying to.

I take it you've never heard of color revolution?

U.S. Groups Helped Nurture Arab Uprisings
Log In - The New York Times

"The last thing he wanted to do" lol yeah right.

We may get lucky with the right-wing "nutbags" v. someone very liberal (read: Libratard) like Elizabeth Warren. This contrast may make the rise of a new 3rd party, a populist one, plausible.

Should this hypothetical populist party gain the presidency, it's candidate will not have the political baggage of the parties controlling Congress. There just might be some populist compromise necessary. However, by a compromise, as I suppose, the parties in control of the Congress may risk their positions to candidates of the new third party in the mid-term elections to follow.

This is how Lincoln's victory established the Republican party's position and decimated the old Whig political machine. So, would the Democrats or the Republicans be the ultimate loser in this scenario?

I'm sorry that you feel it's ok to spy on Americans with out warrants and collect massive amounts of data. Myself, I feel that is a massive violation of my constitutional rights as an American. I don't care if Obama or John McCain or anyone else thinks it's ok.. I don't think it's ok and I'm saying that.

I'm not spinning anything, I've always publicly posted my dislike of the NSA spying and records collecting, but you seem to want to make everything right vs left. In the last topic I started about this very issue, I told you there too there was no reason to make it a right vs left but you continued to do so , so I stopped replying to you.

I'm simply giving a guy credit for at least trying to do something in Washington. I think for the most part, the guy is a little bit off and too extreme, but I do agree with him on this issue. I also disagree with Obama on this same issue.

Yet still you make it about team sports.. The best part about you trying to make this a right vs left argument, is that the majority of both the right and the left thinks it's ok to spy American citizens.. The one thing they are unified on is violating our Constitution rights, which it seems you support.

again, shitty spin attempt.

here's the reality: i can see that this bill is curbing NSA data collection and therefore, a step in the right direction and i simply posted that view of mine here.


i didn't post here wanting, needing or expecting a reply from you.
you feel the need to misrepresent my view to be about team sports, in some bizzarre spin attempt. when you know full well i refer to both your party and the other as tard parties libtards and republitards.

if i were making this a team sports issue, why the fuck would i use BO for that?

oh i know why, because i fucking wouldn't.

This bill still allows them to mass collect data and do it with out individual warrants. This is not a step in the right direction it is an approval to continue doing what the Supreme Court ruled was above and beyond what the Patriot Act allowed. This bill legitimizes the mass collection with out warrants.

that's your fucking opinion of it and i couldn't give a shit. what i do give a shit about is your lack of ability to allow others to have their interpretation of it.'

i posted my fucking view without the fucked-up insecure need to attempt to denigrate someone else's view in order to prop up my own.

have the nutsack to do the same crockett.

Umm you are the one in a topic I started trying to tell me over and over again that my opinion is wrong. I didn't start a topic that said "Dyna Mo is an idiot whom thinks spying on US citizens is ok"..

You came into my topic and started telling me I'm wrong about everything, trying to play gotcha games and now you're the victim..

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

The undersigned civil liberties, human rights, and other public interest organizations write
in support of the USA FREEDOM Act (S. 2685), which Senator Leahy reintroduced on
July 29. We urge both the Senate and the House to pass it swiftly and without any dilution
of its protections.

We support S. 2685 as an important first step toward necessary comprehensive
surveillance reform. We urge the Senate and the House to pass it quickly, and without
making any amendments that would weaken the important changes described above.


Sincerely,
Access
Advocacy for Principled Action in Government
American Association of Law Libraries
American Civil Liberties Union
American Library Association
Antiwar.com
Arab American Institute
Association of Academic Health Sciences Libraries
Association of Research Libraries
Bill of Rights Defense Committee
Brennan Center for Justice
Campaign for Digital Fourth Amendment Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology
Center for Media and Democracy/The Progressive
Charity & Security Network
Citizen Outreach
Competitive Enterprise Institute
Constitution Alliance
The Constitution Project
Council on American-Islamic Relations
Cyber Privacy Project
Defending Dissent Foundation
DownsizeDC.org, Inc.
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Free Press Action Fund
Freedom of the Press Foundation
FreedomWorks
GenOpp
Government Accountability Project
Human Rights Watch
Liberty Coalition
Media Alliance
Medical Library Association
National Coalition Against Censorship
National Security Counselors
New America’s Open Technology Institute
OpenMedia.org
OpenTheGovernment.org
PEN American Center
Public Knowledge
Republican Liberty Caucus
R Street
Rutherford Institute
TechFreedom


https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/f...t_073 014.pdf

here's my fucking post here, you need to realize you are not up against your fellow 3rd graders here. i didn'te berate you or your fucked-up view in order to post mine. so fuck off with your bullshit comment about me telling you you are wrong.

I don't care what groups support it. They are still spying on US citizens with out a warrant and are mass collecting data, once again with out a warrant. You can tell me baby Jesus says that's ok, but I'm still going to tell you to go to hell.

The warrant-less spying needs to end period. No excuses, no exceptions. We don't need "first steps" it's been 15 years, it needs to end. The simple fact is the USA Freedom Act extends the Patriot Act. Meanwhile if it is not approved the Patriot Act ends..

So extend the Patriot act or end it.. I say end it..

again, i posted my view, standing on its own.

Justice will not really be served until politicians are held responsible for their actions.
Examples of them getting away with corruption are rampant and almost in our faces.
The hypocrisy of do as you are told and not as we do is scary.
For instance, banking regulators and the SEC get away with everything. Everything.
Under the Patriot Act they build super data centers to record everything online.
Examining all that data is not currently possible, however they can target someone.
Lying to the people seems to be the norm, I think it should be a felony.
Corrupt politicians who lie to get into office should be charged with a felony.
A few years in jail would dissuade most of them from chasing power for money.
No one should have more rights than others, even the hate spewing maggots out there.
This new bill, is just a way to further degrade the rights of the Americans and then others.
My personal take on it is that info will soon be used on people to persecute
Ending free speech and a free society by attacking the loudmouths.
Look at some countries who imprison those who speak out against the power holders.
There is no shortage of tragic stories where they throw people away for life.
Soon we can expect the same for us, the writing is on the wall. Freedom is not Free.
The rampant push and divide amongst the races seems to be a tool against everyone.
Everyday pushing the people further and further away from helping each other.
End game will result in a race war, which will then need to be controlled by government.
Looking out for your safety is how it will begin.
Before long they will be more proactive and take your cell phone records.
Ending any amount of freedom to assemble or free speech you thought you had.
Anarchy almost seems to be invited right now by the powers that be, so they can control.
My best guess is that they are just waiting for a tipping point to go ahead and begin.
Stay safe and keep your head down.




oh...and read the first letter of each line. :)

We just saw once again how the banking sector gets away with their crimes. The feds dished out a big fine just yesterday or the day before over the financial crash wrong doing. Of course it will likely never be paid in full. No one gets charged with any crimes, no one involved goes to jail.

The best part is the consumers whom were ripped off get none of their money back. The fine is all paid to the govt and we can all assume it will be reduced by shit loads in back room deals with lawyers after 10 years of appeals.

Yet they will send some guy away for 10 years because he posted pictures online..

Jet fuel, impact and pressure can make it break though.

but kooks avoid that part..

They are ALL "stupid enough". It's human nature. Look at how many times even the smartest people can get tripped up by clever "interviewers".
Especially after a long day and they hit you with some question out of left field.

So you ponder it briefly and give an answer. Sometimes the answer comes out wrong.

Obama is a smart guy, and his team does everything they can to keep it scripted. But even he goes off the reservation with remarks sometimes that bite him in the ass.

Has nothing to do with intelligence.

You should stick to using words you understand; how do you defiantly support someone?

That's because her own husband Bill is the one who was talking about Iraq and "weapons of mass destruction" near the end of his Presidency.

He not only made several televised speeches about it...but he also made a "video letter" to Saddam Hussein that was broadcast as well. in which he threatened to send in the military.
Not to mention that he bombed Baghdad.

Hillary is correct in saying it was the wrong thing to do.

But unlike the media and Democrat politicians...she can't re-write history and claim that Bush "lied" about it....unless her husband lied about it too. (which is probably the correct answer...they both were lying)

BO's official foreign policy mantra: don't do stupid shit.



https://www.google.com/search?q=obam...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

You mean just "don't do shit" above boards anyway or "Talk big and carry a little stick" ... zing

Presidents I remember:
Kennedy: too young to really remember
Johnson: Foreign Policy Failures -- Vietnam War
Nixon: Foreign Policy Failures -- Dollar Devaluation, Abandonment of the Bretton Woods fixed exchange rate system, Overthrow of Allende in Chile, Vietnam War
Ford: Foreign Policy Failures -- ?? WIN Buttons
Carter: Foreign Policy Failures -- Middle East, allying with bin-Laden against the Soviets (look where that got us)
Reagan: Foreign Policy Failures -- Yawn! He may have not been totally responsible for his actions due to mental incapacity -- had moments of clarity like most Alzheimer's disease patients do in the early stages. His stooges advocated a confrontational foreign policy most of the time, then woke Ronnie up to sign the paper and afterwords gave him cookies and milk an told him it was nap time again...
GH Bush (Daddy Bush): Foreign Policy Failures -- First Gulf War outcome (look where that got us), Mogadishu
Clinton: Foreign Policy Failures -- Mogadishu, Rwandan Genocide, Let al-Qaeda get out of hand (in all fairness he was distracted by impeachment showboating of the opposition )
GW Bush (Baby Bush): Foreign Policy Failures -- every foreign policy decision he made turned to shit.
Obama (AKA:Baby Jesus): Foreign Policy Failures -- Gitmo, FATCA, Iran-- the worst may yet to come, has 1 1/2 years to go.

These were all smart men -- if they were from your political persuasion ...

Successive American governments have never made wise foreign policy decisions that I recall. Presidents Madison and FDR (Roosevelt WW2) are a few that did, according to the history books anyway.

was chatting with Robbie recently that i couldn't recollect any nation at any time that had successful foreign policy.

There were some successes along with the failures being most remembered notwithstanding GW Bush he was a total fuck up.

This topic isn't about foreign polices.. It's about domestic spying on US citizens with out warrants. To those whom think the USA Freedom act is a step in the right direction.. You are being bullshiited and lied to.. Don't be so fucking gullible.

As I said in the previous topic, the Freedom Act extends what the NSA can do and allows them to share info unrelated to terrorism with the FBI.

No, Congress did not just vote to end NSA spying | TheHill

Here is the official mandate of the NSA:

"The protection and formulation of codes, ciphers, and other cryptology for the U.S. military and other government agencies as well as the interception, analysis, and solution of coded transmissions by electronic or other means. The agency conducts research into all forms of electronic transmissions. "

"Executive Order 12333, originally issued 4 December 1981, delineates the NSA/CSS roles and responsibilities. In part, the Director, NSA/Chief, CSS is charged to:

Collect (including through clandestine means), process, analyze, produce, and disseminate signals intelligence information and data for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes to support national and departmental missions;
Act as the National Manager for National Security Systems as established in law and policy, and in this capacity be responsible to the Secretary of Defense and to the Director, National Intelligence;
Prescribe security regulations covering operating practices, including the transmission, handling, and distribution of signals intelligence and communications security material within and among the elements under control of the Director of the National Security Agency, and exercise the necessary supervisory control to ensure compliance with the regulations."

This is from their web site before you start with the repub / dem lickspittle news accusation

That is as stupidly broad as anything I've ever seen, and typical of the self-enrichers that run the government. Literally, they could sit with their thumbs in their asses "analyzing" communications all day, since they have no required result to base any metrics on. However, that doesn't put enough money in the contractor's pockets, so they've invented a mandate to spy on everyone everywhere, in case someone's bad.

If no attacks happen, they're not paranoid assholes who spent all our money and destroyed our constitution, they're "protectors who saved us, allowing not a single successful terrorist attack despite over, um, let's say, 40, no 50! yeah, 50! 'credible threats'"

If attacks do happen, then they're not ineffective treasonous bureaucrats, they're "needed now more than ever, as is constant vigilance, and, regrettably, the temporary suspension of a few freedoms for the sake of 'national security'".

The people making billions off us are actually a lot smarter than most of us, and they have good help. Also, they don't have to follow any laws, which is useful.

Further, regardless of the "side" they're from, they have an army of rabid, brainless zombies trained to pause licking their leaders sacks long enough to carry out any order given them with only barest and stupidest justification.

I predict them for the win

It all just feeds on it's self at this point. They just keep getting more and more power and the people whom are elected are more than willing to keep on giving it to them.

I am proud of you crockett.

It's the first time that I personally have seen you get passionate about something the govt. is doing that wrong.
I'm impressed brother! :)

I've always been against the NSA spying.. I was also always against the Iraq war, even before it actually started. I'm also very much against lobbying & the fact that no one has gone to jail over any of the crimes committed by the banking industry which caused the housing & financial crash.

I'm against a lot of stuff our govt does..

Tip of the hat to you crockett. :)

We can all hope so.. but I will believe it when we see them dismantling their buildings..

However at least for now it seems to be headed in that direction..

I'm very much against a lot of things and just because I give Obama support on something, doesn't mean I agree with other things he does. Kinda like Rand Paul here.. I don't agree with much of what he does and says, but I agree 100% with him and the others whom also wouldn't sign off on the extension.

This is one of the reason I started trolling so much.. Because many people here will bitch for example no matter what Obama does. These these people there is nothing at all Obama could do right.. That to me is just dumb sheep mentally..

I mean hell I thought Bush fucked up our country in a very bad way, but it doesn't mean I didn't sometimes agree with something he did or didn't get a laugh out of things he might say.. Cheney on the other hand.. every time I saw him I wanted to punch him in the face... :1orglaugh

I think people need to end all this political hack shit with their fake out rage at everything someone from the other team does. Yes everyone is going to dislike certain things happening, but really the Benghazi stuff and all the lies which have been told about Obamacare by the right.. I just have no tolerance for that.

I'm all for someone having the right to not agree or support what ever they want, but what's been going on since Obama was elected mostly from the right is just ridiculous and it's why I troll the way I do..

I'm with BO on this one. Like affordable healthcare, its not a panacea,

and the courts already ruled section 215 illegal.

The freedom act is a step in the right direction.

You don't seem to understand how wrong you are. The USA freedom act gives the green light to 215 and adds more data collection capabilities. If that bill was passed the NSA would be able to mass collect internet data browsing history, on smart phones and they would extend the data collection to land lines like VoIP phones.

Everything you seem to belive is fixed, was given a legal work around with in the new bill..

Also I dunno where you got that support letter before but the ACLU and even the Tea Party are both very much aginst the USA Freedom Act. Most of those groups on your list are political think thanks.. They don't give a shit about our rights, they are paid to sell you bullshit.


I suspect you just want to argue, so you looked up some fluff news to support you case, rather than look at what this bill would of done..

Right now we are in the best possible situation.. All the spying has to end and the patriot act also ends. As long as no deals are made before the 31st, which doesn't look like it will happen.

in fact crockett, i've tried to NOT argue with you in this thread and when i got a bit off track chatting with another poster here on a tangent, i stopped that and returned to the OP after you pointed it out, out of respect for your thread and topic.

so when i post back on track here, you lambast it and me for being gullible and naive etc and handwaving off my agreeing with BO and exclaim all i want to do is argue. well, keep on disrespecting my view, it only makes you look insecure with your's.

the reason i agree with BO on this is we are not going to dismantle the 4th branch of government in this bill. it's going to be a process and i wholeheartedly agree with many that this is a step in that direction. panaceas do not happen in reality.

If the patriot act is not extended, it means all domestic spying comes to an end.. How can you argue that extending that spying is better than not allowing g it at all?

It's very simple Dyna.. There is no possible way that mass collecting of data can stop anything in real time. It's 100% impossible unless they know exactaly whom to spy on at a given instant.

This means the only use of this data collection is to use it after the fact.. Now if they know enough as to who to listen to in real time, then they can already use existing wire tap rules to watch that person..

The spying goes aginst every principle of illegal searches and seizures which this country was founded on.

Added to this the freedom act makes it legal for the FBI to use this data which can be handed over by the NSA for non terrorism crimes.

none of that has anything to do with my view. i fully get that the nsa cannot point to any successes in countering terrorism due to section 215, which only applies to land lines as you know.


what is your view on the fact that FISA court has already determined scetion 215 illegal? yet the NSA keeps on? i don't see trying to railroad this bill when the nsa operates with impunity and it seems like that is where the issue is, in enforcing FISA rulings.

and that's not an attempt to get you to change your mind. those are real questions i have when i look at this bill objectively and part & parcel of why i have the view i have.

That latest ruling by the court didn't actually say the NSA was acting UN constitutionals or that they were acting illegally. The court gave a half ass ruling which stated that the NSA was doing more than what Congress had originally authorized.

The count in a sense rather than say it was unconstitutional, which would of forced the NSA to stop, instead threw the ball into Congress's hands. They opted to give Congress the decision as to if the spying should end, be reigned in some, continue on or given even more abilities..

What Congress did was change it up so certain things appeared better, but added loop holes which would allow even more spying power..

The simple fact is, we have been shown the NSA can't be trusted and they have abused the power they were given. It now needs to end because if it's not ended, it will only get worse.

Think about this Dyna.. Think of someone whom was as parinoid as Nixion was, had the abilities that our govt has today... It needs to end while we still have the ability to control the govt.