no Ma... GOVERNMENTS and Political Systems are responsible for that and have hidden behind Christianity to do so...

nonsense - it's the catholic church that sends nuns and priests to Africa to tell people they cannot use condoms so that on one hand they have 15 children they cannot feed and on the other hand half of them die of AIDS

in the name of the lord

amen

Not to mention their priests are into sex slavery.

Humans are more or less religious by nature. If they don't believe in god, in some shit anyways. That is the way it is. I guess it has been good in terms of evolution. Even now Muslims out breed every other religion, and it is not even what I meant, as I meant more subtle things.

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh :321GFY

http://33.media.tumblr.com/5dde2a1c9...xqqio1_400.gif

there's not one single person on this planet that can prove Christianity has done more harm than good.

tell me all your thoughts on Tod....

Nor one single intelligent person who gives a fuck - exterminate them all

http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1...1ysvo1_540.jpg

plenty of intelligent people give a fuck, don't be silly.

we can approach the topic subjectively, detached from emotion.

and when we do, we realize the fact i stated.

i can understand that fact being unsettling, nevertheless, no one can prove Christianity has done more harm that good.

i've searched for proof, intensely, i can't find it.

i'm not defending Christianity. not that that won't stop my legion of fans from lashing out.

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ld...ezf9o1_400.gif
Easy...here is how.

How much does 1 pound of runny shit weigh?

If you said "1 pound" then you have your proof. :thumbsup

no. i already have my proof and i posted my view based on it and of it. without needing to quote to try to devalue other's posts.

please, you have your view and you associate it and yourself with the intelligent. i get it.

i have my view and i've come to it via a journey. don't let my confident view get to you.

so you have no reading comprehension?

...those that hate Christianity

Those that "hate" Christianity very often don't understand Christianity in it's entirety. But that's not surprising since Christianity as a whole often acts very UNchristian-like. That faith, like pretty much every other kind, all too often serves to shoot itself in the foot, sometimes to the point of making non believers wish they would shoot themselves in the head.

As to Christianity ending slavery, I don't think it wise for it (Christianity as a whole) to go taking on too much credit for something as massive as that. However, Christian values on the other hand -- love they neighbor, basic human decency, Lord's prayer (do unto others as..)etc ... values and precepts that as it happens are shared by several other major religions (in theory, sadly not always in practice -- I'm looking at you, Ilsam)... would be the more likely thing to take the lion's share of the credit for taking down slavery. Values.

That's not to say that slavery has been defeated either. The fact is it exists today all over the world to varying degrees. If "Christianity" is truly being given (or taking?) credit then they've done a pretty piss-poor job of keeping it in check I'd say.

I said that about slavery not the pope or jesus...however it was Christians that started and propagated the abolitionist movement that was a direct cause of ending institutionalized slavery in the western world

Was it? What were they doing for the 1500 years before that? I don't think it is a coincidence that slavery was eliminated along with enforced class systems, which are a form of slavery. Christianity taught slaves to accept their lot. Remember, god ordered the way things are. Reason said, "question it". Reason also said, don't stick red hot pokers up jewish people's bungholes, and don't imprison and burn people for saying the earth revolves around the sun, and the devil doesn't cause the plague, etc. All that good stuff. Slavery went away because people *stopped* being christian, and just accepting that god put this all in place for his unknowable purpose. They said, I personally believe slavery is wrong, and I'll fight against it. Also, I'll fight against priests raping little boys, etc etc. The church didn't really issue a bulla against slavery until 1839, and then it was unclear:

"In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI issued a bull, with the incipit In supremo apostolatus in which he condemned slavery, with particular reference to New World colonial slavery and the slave trade, calling it "inhumanum illud commercium." The exact meaning and scope of the Bull was disputed at the time, and remains so among historians. That new enslavements and slave-trading are condemned and forbidden absolutely is clear, but the language in the passage quoted below and other passages was not sufficiently specific to make clear what, if anything, the bull had to say about the ongoing ownership of those already slaves, although their sale seemed to be prohibited.There was certainly no clear call for the emancipation of all existing slaves, as had already happened in the British and French Empires."

Yet in the USA

"During and after the American Revolutionary War, between 1777 and 1804, anti-slavery laws or constitutions were passed in every state north of the Ohio River and the Mason-Dixon Line"

So the USA preceded the catholic church by many decades. Not because of Christianity, but because free people get around to the right thing. Christianity didn't spread freedom, freedom did. The church is anti-freedom. The church supports feudalism and slavery by its nature.

and the blacks are still pissed at the USA

Al Gore ended slavery.

You wont find "proof" for what is inherently an argument about relative concepts.

But you could start with the Crusades, or sectarian conflict in Ireland, or The catholic Church conniving with the Nazi's and their Final Solution, or The British Empire, or The Spanish conquests in South America. Catholic sex education in the Third World and the Aids epidemic. The collusion of the Church and peodophile priests. Forced abortion of unmarried mothers. Its a long long list.

But then I suppose we would need to look at what you mean by "good". What are you balancing the atrocious wars and murders against ? Surely you don't have some ridiculous notion that Christianity brought us some moral code to live by ?

Morality does not come from the Bible. The Old testament is full of hate and murder. Bullshit like Lott appeasing the homosexuals of Sodom with his Virgin daughters. The book of Leviticus says that we should stone to death homosexuals. In fact stoning to death comes up rather frequently.
Then you have the new testament, its a bit lighter on the stonings and smotings and the doing to death of anyone who displeases the Lord, but it is still a bag of hypocritical shite where Christians pick and choose the bits that fit their particular "morals".

Dawkins explains it a lot better than I could.

you're using gun control arguments..... guns are evil, x amount killed, blah blah blah.... most of what you point out are money grabs....

Do people at your church know what you do for a living?

Gun control ??

WTF are you talking about ?

:1orglaugh

So money grabs are justified ?

I would stop bumping this if I were you.

if you can't see the correlation between gun control arguments and your Christianity was dodgy 1000 years ago and people do shitty stuff to each other and I blame Christianity what the fuck can I do?

your argument is this: I stick a 2x4 way the fuck up your ass with no grease AND TELL YOU GOD TOLD ME TO DO THAT ... you blame Christianity... see how fucked up your argument is?

gun control argument: guns kill people.... my gun has never attacked anyone, any more than my dishwasher or ceiling fan have gone on a killing sprees.

and none of that changes the FACT that the abolitionist movement was based on Christian values and was a major factor in ending institutionalized slavery in the west...

It would be nice to give Christianity at least ONE feather in it's cap, so let's all give it some props for having a hand in ending slavery...otherwise it's just known for being a bloodthirsty murderous brainwash regime that is responsible for millions of gruesome deaths, burning people at the stake, child rape, polygamy, disgusting evangelist whore mongers, the vile Duggar Family...and of course Sarah Palin.

why on earth would I be going to church... what's the thought behind that one....you support gay marriage so you're gay?

Well, your pro-christianity views suggest that you're a christian and christians often times go to church. No need to get hussy with me.

when did I state that I am pro Christianity? I stated one fact not a blanket admission of admiration...

in fact I have stated many times that I am NOT religious.... I stated that Christianity helped stop slavery in the west... I will say this though....the salvation army gave me food when I was hungry and did not ask anything from me...

you're the one making weird shit up and being a dipshit....

so you support gay marriage you're gay then?

Calm down bro.

First, the majority of you are conflating the Roman Catholic Church and Christianity as if the Reformation never happened and there was/is only one brand of Christianity. And for all the ills of the Catholic Church its influence on the development of Western Civilization has been hugely beneficial - where we are today, first world countries of today with their affluence wouldn't be what they are if not for the Church. Who do you think educated the masses of Europe? And charity for the sick and orphaned? The Marxists called religion the opiate of the masses, that it was used to exploit the masses by making their miserable lives tolerable with the promise of a better life after death. They were right, people worked their asses off and that work created wealth - wealth that one day would be shared, of course without much help from the Church. But over time the masses got smarter, literate, and society began to reform. Look at the countries where Buddhism and its variants predominate - they are still shithole 3rd world countries.

As far as the abolition of slavery in the US, he's right, the people who first settled America, the Pilgrims, were a Christian sect expelled from England. The Quakers and the Puritans other Christian sects who came to America to practice their brand of Christianity. They were all anti-slavery, all the Northern states were anti-slavery from the beginning.

Wipe Christianity out from history and we would not be where we are today, millions and millions have died because of religion but more have thrived because of its influence. Have we reached the point where we don't need religion? Every civilization ever existed has had some form of religion.

Catholics 1.2 billion Protestants 800 million

If 60% of a thing does a thing, is it fair to say that thing does that thing?

The Catholic Church (and "Catholic" means "unity" or "one") is the first Christian church.
The first "pope" was supposedly Peter the apostle. (St. Peter)

And I have to say that the Christian religion certainly helped mankind plunge into a thousand years of backwards movement: The Dark Ages

Hell...humanity only recently in history was able to catch up with the technology of the Roman Empire. Thanks Christianity!

And during the Renaissance Period, guys like Da Vinci had to hide their work from the church or they would have been killed.

I've thought about it before...civilization would be 1,000 years into the future RIGHT NOW if not for the Dark Ages. :(

mmmkay.....


So you dont see this that line of reasoning actually disproves your original post ?

By your reasoning it was the actual abolitionists who created a movement which called for the end of slavery. (actually they called for the end of a particular bit of slavery)

To claim it now for christianity is actually contrary to your post above.

You cannot have it both ways.:2 cents::2 cents:

However I could not really give a shit if you want to believe that tripe. Go ahead knock yourself out.

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

man no kidding, that's why I posted.... I do however know a few quality Christians personally... and I'm sure there are some great people that are application has been very very mean spirited more than once....

and again in all fairness I must point to low quality people being involved and all the things you have mentioned as blights against Christianity do happen with OUT Christianity :2 cents:

Statement in bold is just not true. There were slaves in parts of the north through the 1850's. Slaves were primarily seen as farm labor. Not needed as much in the north as it was more industrialized earlier on. People in the north also wised up and realized much cheaper to pay someone a few pennies a day and let them worry for themselves about food and housing. It is why many blacks who fled the south after the Civil War started flowing back almost immediately.

Religion is the new slavery. Always has been always will be.

They just switched from slavery to the sex trafficking biz... Full time.