Photos of new drachma .

Good luck to them! :thumbsup

Anyone in Greece wanna save their money need to put it all into bitcoin. Seems like thats what they are doing from what can see proce btc on quick rise

Bitcoin price up to almost $270.
Future are down.
Oil down to less than $55 a barrel. Oil has been on a down trend anyways, but this is the summer driving season.

Aussie stocks and dollar pummelled too :Oh crap

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I think the main problem is that you can't really access 'your' money if its in the bank :) And if you have paper Euro's then there is no hurry, you can exchange it later to the upcoming currency :)

Of course that would be the case in almost all banks, what with Fractional Reserve Banking.... I bet less than 1 in a 100 even knows what that is.

There is no banking that would be banking if everybody could draw their moneys (loans to bank) at the same time. Well, unless banks could create money from thin air, as at least whateporn thinks. How much easier it would be if that would be the case.

It would simply be some kind of electronic safety box if it wouldn't be loan. Maybe there will be such services, Paypals and such are somewhat close to that. Against fee of course, at least in some form, for example Paypal takes quite big transaction fees.

One lesson from Greece: If you can't afford to pay back a loan, don't take one out. Murica :1orglaugh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJL4YKCUsAA_eB5.jpg:large

The Greeks have called the EU's bluff.

Now the ball is in the EU's court. A few factors to consider.

1. Greece will never repay or try to repay the debt while they're in the EU. Even if they are willing, they can't.

2. They default and run out of money.

3. Or the EU pumps in more to keep the Euro from tanking. Which is a continuation of the last few years. The EU lays down conditions, the Greeks agree, get the money and ignore a lot of the conditions. They are now at the point of no return.

4. They leave the Euro, for which there is no procedure, the EU can't force them to. The Euro was set up as a one way ticket. Once in, it was not envisaged someone would leave.

Once out they go back to the Drachma, which is going to be very low value. From there they rebuild their economy. Still not paying the right tax rate.

evy97 points out what happens when a Government doesn't collect enough money to keep a country running. Not even a wasteful administration can run up that kind of debt.

Few factors to consider:

1. they have already run out of money.
2. They have already defaulted.
3. Other countries won't keep bailing Greek out without substantial agreements from Greek. That would be politically impossible.
4. Yes, they won't pay the whole debt at least, as it already has been cut, and even in best case scenario, it will probably be cut further.
5. Doesn't really matter what Greek will do besides making a deal. If they don't agree, they are cut off. If they want any money, they have to leave euro as there is no more money coming from that direction. Other option is to use something else than money, but I doubt that they will switch to trading with chickens, etc. What is the point being in euro anyways if they use chickens to trade.

you can only claim to have called a bluff when you win - i don't think Greece won anything last night

they need to reform their administration and tax system so that everyone, including the billionaires, pay their share. If they don't do that, nothing will ever change but one thing: no one will borrow them any money anymore after this experience

I though the exactly same thing; the bluff was pretty much the other way around.

No panic in the market, etc. that Greeks could use for leverage. End deal for them.

We all live in hope this will happen.

MaDalton, the EU is yet to respond. Given their track record. What do you thing the politicians will do this time? And should Merkel cave in, what's her odds on keeping the job?

I think the EU had to dump Greece a couple of years ago. I was hoping this mess would keep going closer to the UK referendum and the shit would hit the fan 6 months before. Ensuring the UK leaves. Then others leave and we go back to just a trade partnership.

So, how Greek won't run out of money, any money? They get no new loans and their own tax collecting sucks. You say that they won't run out of other people's money? How is that possible? Who lends to them? They have already ran out of money, they defaulted at last week. This isn't what if scenario, it did already happen.

if i knew a solution i would not be sitting here selling porn

I am surprised how well the markets have taken this. Maybe, the default is factored in?

I can't see how the banks will be able to reopen for business as normal tomorrow.

Greece is in a depression (or faux depression) with 25% unemployment and a banking system with no liquid currency. You will be able to buy a chicken for 1 euro soon if you have the coin in hand :2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Its called currently of the Former europian republic of greece :pimp

In Holland they did a poll under the public, 63% of the people want Greece to leave. the EU. You can call it bluff what the politicians do, but it is the people from other countries that have to pay the bill and they showed many times they don't want to pay for Greece anymore. If the politicians now keep sending money, the people from other countries will vote more and mor anti .eu in coming elections. Helping Greece wold cost every dutchman 1000 euro and everybody can see they will never be able to take care of themselves. They came to the .EU because their political leaders lied about everything. The Dutch people is also lied to; everytime we sended money the politicians said we get it back with interest, while everybody already could see that we never could get back the money.

The stockmaret isn't impressed. Yes, it went down the last days. But now we ae stil around the same as 3 weeks ago, and 2 weeks ago suddenly we rallied from 465 (current stock Index) to 485 in 1 week.... I think it would be more stable without Greece, cause that land only weakens the Euro. Except the money we lent to Greece, they also responsible for the drop down of the euro and stockmarkets. In reality the Greece costed the .EU loads of money. Kicking them out givs a signal that could make the euro and eu stronger. But in fact, poor countries keep coming in cause the politicians want them in.

Well, the Greek people are fucked, by their own government who lied to get them in the .EU. If it is up to people in other countries Greece is out of the .EU. But you can see all political figues changing their mind and suddenly there will be money for Greece i think. Sorry for the people there, 30% unemployment and not a good vision for the future. But they are still part of the .eu, thy can emigrate.

The banks are going bancrupt when Europe or Greece governemnt can help them. Costed bilion in other countries to save the banks, i thinkGreece doesn't have it anymore.

I find it interesting that Germany wouldn't be sitting where they are now if Greece as well as the UK and the U.S. had not nearly wiped out its debt after WW2. Seems like Merkel & Germany have forgotten from whence they came.

And it seems like the rest of Europe has forgotten how Germany became a Nazi menace after WWI when the bankers refused to wipe out their war debt. If the banks have wiped that debt clean it's unlikely that Hilter and Co. would have ever come to power.

Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

Germans: highly skilled. Pro business.
Greeks: lazy socialsts.

I think there is nothing else to understand here.

The greeks are fucked because of cultural issues. They will not save themselves or build up out of this mess because they are lazy and culturally want a free ride.

Germanies continued rise and self sufficiency is amazing.

That WWI stuff was much more than about bankers. Germany had to pay for western allies compensation about the war (reparation payments). France even occupied Ruhr valley after Germany failed to pay these compensations in time/ sufficiently.

you sure seem to hold a grudge... especially when you are insinuating that Merkel will be the next Hitler - at that point it becomes comical

and Greece has so far received 36 times the money Germany received through the Marshall Plan

I never said Merkel would become Hitler. I said she has forgotten how Germany would not be the Germany of today if it's loans were not forgiven after WW2.

The amount of money is immaterial. If Europe takes a hardline approach on Greek debt - Russia & Putin will step in and we will be off to the races with the resurgence of a possible facist / communistic state in Greece.

but you do understand that Greece does not come out of a recent war but has sneaked into the Euro, spent borrowed money on an over-inflated government, has no working tax system and now everyone should just forget about the money?

That's like you borrow me $500 so i can start my lemonade stand but instead i go drink with my buddies, do a few lines and when you ask me to repay you, i'd be saying "Sorry, money is gone, i dont have that lemonade stand either and please forget about the money, you never get it anyways."

and then i go to my other Euro buddies and tell them "go to pornlaw, he'll give you $500 for partying and doesn't need it back"

Putin has his own troubles. The days when they openhandedly supported every communist click in the world are over. Besides, I don't care. If they want communist or facist country, be my guest. They already have some sort of mix of the both.

France will bail them out - They are the only country that can't afford for the EU to fail...

French Banks hold almost $80 Billion of the Greek debt.....

Most likely don't anymore (video is from 2012).


EDIT:

France 42 billion. And that is France as a country, not banks. Banks have bailed out. Greek debt is now in the hands of national and international institutions. Foreign banks have only 2,4 billion from the total cake. And now probably not even that (that news is from january)

Greek debt crisis: Who has most to lose? - Jan. 28, 2015

The first greek bailouts were really bailouts for German and French banks

Greece really has no choice to leave the euro unless their debt is heavily forgiving. The euro is dysfunctional because it's a system used acrossed countries but there is no coordination or unity... It's just doomed to repeat.

Greece needs to drop out of the euro, things will suck for a couple of years but things will get fixed. If they stay in the euro it's just going to be this situation to infinity every couple years


And the problem there is the Spain and Portugal and all the other shaky nations will realize they can free themselves too and recover after a couple of years. Austerity doesn't work when done this quickly because you economy shrinks faster then the cuts do

But hey at least the US isn't the bad guy for a change. We love deficit spending!

PS writing this in Greece right now. Everyone seems to be doing ok. Cause they are broke already lol

Of course there is coordination and unity, but mainly for the euro only (and trade). That is the problem. Euro is just fine, countries aren't (like Greece).

sorry if it was already here somewhere, but food for thought:

Yep, prolly they'll go back to dracmas soon. :2 cents:

Good video, however not sure if fiscal union is necessary in case every nation will maintain its deficit spendings.. which unfortunately doesn't seems like will happen anytime soon.. so there are 3 ultimate options: fiscal union, very strict rules on deficit spendings or break up of the monetary union (end of EURO)..