Unemployment rates in Holland are almost equal to the USA.
Except everybody has health insurance, wellfare if needed,
and we still can buy off all Greece debts if needed.

Not sure what you're getting at.

Does that mean that you think that socialism is a better way for society and that it can be successful and somehow people (not just a few at the top) can "get ahead" in life and work their way up to fulfill their ambitions?

Well, you said " it's human nature. If you reward people to NOT work...they won't work.".
That would imply that there are more people unemployed in a more socialist country.
But if you look at the numbers with some more soacialist countries, that is not the case.

Between a more socialist country and 100% socialism is a huge difference.
I think there isn't a 100% socialist country, most of the time the politics are between right and left.

Yes, i think in a more socialist land people 'get ahead' in life and become what they want. Maybe even more cause everybody is able to go to university and has good Healthcare, better life environment. Europe isn't Korea. You think everybody in the USA is able to visit the best school, get Always good healthcare and Always a minimun you can life from to offer your children also a better future?

Fair enough.

Not the way I see things. But if everyone thought the same it would be a boring world.

I prefer "dog-eat-dog" capitalism. I like to compete and enjoy being forced to raise my game.

Few EU countries would of joined the Euro with those rules. Especially Greece, probably Italy, Spain and Portugal. The EU is the bureaucrats and politicians wet dream. The had a good trade agreement with the Common Market. Since then have taken every step they can to make Europe one Federal State. With populations who see themselves as people of their country first and Europeans a poor second.

Works like that in America with so many Americans caught up in the consumer race, going for the American Dream. Greeks and most of Southern Europe's people are very different. They will only work hard enough to get the essentials. Preferring a quieter life than working "50" hours a week and striving for the next gadget or a bigger car.

There's the problem the EU has to face head on. The Greeks, Spanish, Italians, should never of been given a blank check book.

Pure Socialism doesn't work, because it removes the reward factor for the best. Demoting or losing them.

Having a safety net for those in real need, like Pensions, Healthcare, Unemployment Benefits, Disability Pensions, is just looking after fellow citizens. Those who are fit enough to work, shouldn't be made to work looking after the society that looks after them. In return for their benefits.

As the world becomes more technical, it will need less people in low to medium paid jobs. This is going to present a real problem. With the increasing gap between those who can get a decent job and those who can't.

Greeks headed towards BitCoin as an alternative currency ??

Greeks are rushing to Bitcoin - Jun. 29, 2015

Unfortunately not that many of them :( I bought some at $250 and it raised only to $260 :)

Right. I envy EU countries with their own currency, such as Hungary or the Czech Republic.

but hey!, we need go back to school.

Socialsts make me fucking sick!

It is all a free ride for you idiots. Then you end up with situations like Greece and pull the entire society down with you.

No true busisness person can be a socialist (unless they are in bed with the government)

Three Cheers!!! :thumbsup

SPX making a LH and LL, following the lead of the majority of our sectors. Only 2/9 of them uptrending.

thinkorswim Sharing

If we can't rally above the prior high, I foresee us making a lower low around the 2030.25 price level. Hopefully we don't fall back below 2000. IMO Greece is just a distraction for what the market has been waiting to do since stopping QE last year.

I know this is a bit callous taking advantage of a country sinking under waves of debt...

But is anybody else eyeing Greece as a discount porn-filming location? I've met some smoking hot Greek chicks and well...one has to pay the bills.

I sincerely hope it won't come to a Greek exit. On the brigher side, a strong euro would be good for me because my earnings are in dollars ;-)

welcome to greece.....be sure you have bills of 5 $

http://s19.postimg.org/t3xqqg5sj/greekgirlsathens.jpg

Don't visit Sweden then. It's the most socialistic country on the Earth.

greek porn actress sofia xiouma

19 yo,new generation is the most sluttish one!

http://s19.postimg.org/vlssvc577/xioubest_1.jpg

Not much movement today. Sitting on top of the 2067.75 price level is positive if we remain there on Monday, although we didn't make it above the blue trend line. Looking for a move to the upside of 2099, or the downside of 2030.25. thinkorswim Sharing

they can't, they smashed the drachma printing presses :rasta :pimp

And the Greeks vote no. They are gonna need to build new presses. Maybe the EU will help with that.

Photos of new drachma .

Good luck to them! :thumbsup

Anyone in Greece wanna save their money need to put it all into bitcoin. Seems like thats what they are doing from what can see proce btc on quick rise

Bitcoin price up to almost $270.
Future are down.
Oil down to less than $55 a barrel. Oil has been on a down trend anyways, but this is the summer driving season.

Aussie stocks and dollar pummelled too :Oh crap

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I think the main problem is that you can't really access 'your' money if its in the bank :) And if you have paper Euro's then there is no hurry, you can exchange it later to the upcoming currency :)

Of course that would be the case in almost all banks, what with Fractional Reserve Banking.... I bet less than 1 in a 100 even knows what that is.

There is no banking that would be banking if everybody could draw their moneys (loans to bank) at the same time. Well, unless banks could create money from thin air, as at least whateporn thinks. How much easier it would be if that would be the case.

It would simply be some kind of electronic safety box if it wouldn't be loan. Maybe there will be such services, Paypals and such are somewhat close to that. Against fee of course, at least in some form, for example Paypal takes quite big transaction fees.

One lesson from Greece: If you can't afford to pay back a loan, don't take one out. Murica :1orglaugh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJL4YKCUsAA_eB5.jpg:large

The Greeks have called the EU's bluff.

Now the ball is in the EU's court. A few factors to consider.

1. Greece will never repay or try to repay the debt while they're in the EU. Even if they are willing, they can't.

2. They default and run out of money.

3. Or the EU pumps in more to keep the Euro from tanking. Which is a continuation of the last few years. The EU lays down conditions, the Greeks agree, get the money and ignore a lot of the conditions. They are now at the point of no return.

4. They leave the Euro, for which there is no procedure, the EU can't force them to. The Euro was set up as a one way ticket. Once in, it was not envisaged someone would leave.

Once out they go back to the Drachma, which is going to be very low value. From there they rebuild their economy. Still not paying the right tax rate.

evy97 points out what happens when a Government doesn't collect enough money to keep a country running. Not even a wasteful administration can run up that kind of debt.

Few factors to consider:

1. they have already run out of money.
2. They have already defaulted.
3. Other countries won't keep bailing Greek out without substantial agreements from Greek. That would be politically impossible.
4. Yes, they won't pay the whole debt at least, as it already has been cut, and even in best case scenario, it will probably be cut further.
5. Doesn't really matter what Greek will do besides making a deal. If they don't agree, they are cut off. If they want any money, they have to leave euro as there is no more money coming from that direction. Other option is to use something else than money, but I doubt that they will switch to trading with chickens, etc. What is the point being in euro anyways if they use chickens to trade.

you can only claim to have called a bluff when you win - i don't think Greece won anything last night

they need to reform their administration and tax system so that everyone, including the billionaires, pay their share. If they don't do that, nothing will ever change but one thing: no one will borrow them any money anymore after this experience

I though the exactly same thing; the bluff was pretty much the other way around.

No panic in the market, etc. that Greeks could use for leverage. End deal for them.

We all live in hope this will happen.

MaDalton, the EU is yet to respond. Given their track record. What do you thing the politicians will do this time? And should Merkel cave in, what's her odds on keeping the job?

I think the EU had to dump Greece a couple of years ago. I was hoping this mess would keep going closer to the UK referendum and the shit would hit the fan 6 months before. Ensuring the UK leaves. Then others leave and we go back to just a trade partnership.

So, how Greek won't run out of money, any money? They get no new loans and their own tax collecting sucks. You say that they won't run out of other people's money? How is that possible? Who lends to them? They have already ran out of money, they defaulted at last week. This isn't what if scenario, it did already happen.

if i knew a solution i would not be sitting here selling porn

I am surprised how well the markets have taken this. Maybe, the default is factored in?

I can't see how the banks will be able to reopen for business as normal tomorrow.

Greece is in a depression (or faux depression) with 25% unemployment and a banking system with no liquid currency. You will be able to buy a chicken for 1 euro soon if you have the coin in hand :2 cents:

:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

Its called currently of the Former europian republic of greece :pimp

In Holland they did a poll under the public, 63% of the people want Greece to leave. the EU. You can call it bluff what the politicians do, but it is the people from other countries that have to pay the bill and they showed many times they don't want to pay for Greece anymore. If the politicians now keep sending money, the people from other countries will vote more and mor anti .eu in coming elections. Helping Greece wold cost every dutchman 1000 euro and everybody can see they will never be able to take care of themselves. They came to the .EU because their political leaders lied about everything. The Dutch people is also lied to; everytime we sended money the politicians said we get it back with interest, while everybody already could see that we never could get back the money.

The stockmaret isn't impressed. Yes, it went down the last days. But now we ae stil around the same as 3 weeks ago, and 2 weeks ago suddenly we rallied from 465 (current stock Index) to 485 in 1 week.... I think it would be more stable without Greece, cause that land only weakens the Euro. Except the money we lent to Greece, they also responsible for the drop down of the euro and stockmarkets. In reality the Greece costed the .EU loads of money. Kicking them out givs a signal that could make the euro and eu stronger. But in fact, poor countries keep coming in cause the politicians want them in.

Well, the Greek people are fucked, by their own government who lied to get them in the .EU. If it is up to people in other countries Greece is out of the .EU. But you can see all political figues changing their mind and suddenly there will be money for Greece i think. Sorry for the people there, 30% unemployment and not a good vision for the future. But they are still part of the .eu, thy can emigrate.

The banks are going bancrupt when Europe or Greece governemnt can help them. Costed bilion in other countries to save the banks, i thinkGreece doesn't have it anymore.