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there was nothing inappropriate about those bankruptcies, Trump plays in a risky arena- casinos, everyone knew the risks, prats and pitfalls and how to recover working together if shit hit the fan. |
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May I offer you a selection of Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, Jim Web, or O'Malley? I'm assuming that you are a Democrat right? So those will be your choices for primary races. Since neither of us are registered Republicans, we can't vote for Trump in the primary even if we wanted to. I'm a registered Libertarian. But if I were able to vote in the primary, I would vote for Sanders. Only because I like some of his ideas. Not sure if he has anything about him that would make him good for the Executive Branch...but then again I don't think ANY of the Democrat or Republican contenders do. At least Sanders tells it like it is and isn't busy lying his ass off and/or helping to fuck our country up like the rest of the Dems and Republican candidates are doing |
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I never claimed that bankruptcy is inherently wrong...I simply reworded what "restructuring" really means...which is to legally avoid fully paying on a contract that both parties had previously agreed to. And of course creditors might "be fine" with restructured debt deals, because the other alternative means even less payment or none at all. So of course a creditor would "be fine" with 50 cents on the dollar repaid in a restructure deal versus 1 cent on a dollar repaid in liquidation. |
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He said it didn't make any sense to risk taxpayer dollars unless they did bankruptcy. He basically forced them to do it. And he was 100% correct. But don't listen to me. Read the transcript of President Obama himself and educate yourself: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/01/us...anted=all&_r=0 |
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I never said Obama did not offer incentives to GM. I said he had nothing to do with GM's bankruptcy...I was referring to GM's decision to restructure. GM decided on it's own to file for bankruptcy. |
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Then he told them that unless they declared bankruptcy he would not give them the bailout. Come on man. That's not "incentives". That's making decisions by the President for GM to go bankrupt so he wouldn't be wasting Federal money. This is kinda dumb. I'm praising Pres. Obama for his decision on that. But you are so adamant about "proving" that Donald Trump isn't a good businessman that you are still going to argue against a business practice that is used by every business out there. Let's just call this a "draw" if it makes you feel better. Me? I know how business works. I'm not phased by the word "bankruptcy" and I don't think it denigrates a person's ability to run a company. Especially if it's done in a way that helps the company either come back from the brink...or if it allows the investors to recoup some of their investment. Pres. Obama never owned any business. But he's an educated man and easily understood the value of using bankruptcy as a tool for restructuring. |
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When did I ever suggest that Trump is not a good businessman? His current net worth versus his net worth when he graduated from college is fact that he is indeed a good businessman. I simply clarified what "restructuring" is...which is to legally avoid fully paying debts per original contract terms. And Obama did not force anyone to file for bankruptcy. He offered GM incentives, which GM was free to accept or reject. |
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50c on the dollar was a hypothetical. It entirely possible that a liquidation deal could result in 75cents on the dollar...in which case the creditors would likely push for liquidation versus restructuring...especially if restructuring does not have sufficent likelyhood of resulting in payment of more than 75 cent on the dollar. The point is that simply because creditors might "be fine" with a bankruptcy plan, does not mean they are happy with not being paid the full contracted amount. They are just choosing beetween the greater of two lesser options. |
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By the way, when banks/creditors voluntarily offer debtors loan/debt restructure deals , that has nothing to do with bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, once the trustee approves the filing, the creditors are forced into restructure/liquidation even if they do not want to. |
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Just consider it as a balance to your need to present bankruptcy in a positive light (your statement that Trump's creditors were fine with bankruptcy). |
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The whole point is voluntarines on the part of creditors who are restructuring debt. You cited the fact that debt restructure is common. But in bankruptcy, creditors do not voluntarily offer restructure deals. Rather they are forced to negotiate a plan...or risk recouping even less. Because if the creditors would "be fine" with a debt restructure, then there would be no need for the debtor to file for bankruptcy in the first place. The debtor and creditor could restructure their deal outside of bankruptcy court. |
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there is plenty available online re: any of the trump run businesses restructured deals, you might want to familiarize yourself with any of that. |
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Again, there is the issue of volunatariness...or lack there of. It is immaterial that the stocks they were forced to accept as payment increased in value after bankruptcy so that the creditors ultimately ended up with more. The issue is that bankruptcy forced those creditors to accept as payment something other than what was in the original contract. That is entirely different than the common voluntary debt restructure deals that you previously cited. |
Upon filing a voluntary petition for relief under chapter 11 or, in an involuntary case, the entry of an order for relief, the debtor automatically assumes an additional identity as the "debtor in possession." 11 U.S.C. § 1101. The term refers to a debtor that keeps possession and control of its assets while undergoing a reorganization under chapter 11, without the appointment of a case trustee. A debtor will remain a debtor in possession until the debtor's plan of reorganization is confirmed, the debtor's case is dismissed or converted to chapter 7, or a chapter 11 trustee is appointed. The appointment or election of a trustee occurs only in a small number of cases. Generally, the debtor, as "debtor in possession," operates the business and performs many of the functions that a trustee performs in cases under other chapters. 11 U.S.C. § 1107(a).
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Trump filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy 4 times. Every chapter 11 filing necessarily involves a trustee. The U.S. Trustee's Role In Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Cases | UST | Department of Justice "The United States Trustee Program is the component of the Department of Justice that works to protect the integrity of the bankruptcy system by overseeing case administration and litigating to enforce the bankruptcy laws. The Program consists of an Executive Office for U.S. Trustees in Washington, D.C., as well as 21 regional U.S. Trustee Offices and 95 field offices that operate in all federal judicial districts except those located in Alabama and North Carolina. Generally, the duties of the U.S. Trustee in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy case are set forth in 28 U.S.C. § 586. They include the following:" |
i just posted the terms for ch11. lolz. every ch11 does NOT necc. involve a trustee. why not read the words i posted, the ones in your favorite color.
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no trustee used in the pre-packaged bankruptcy deal Trump made
A "prepackaged" bankruptcy petition, in which the majority of creditors and the debtor had already agreed on a plan that needed the court's approval, was approved in Federal bankruptcy court yesterday. As part of the petition, Mr. Trump must insure that the casino meets projections for earnings and performance in order to keep control of the company's board. As part of a settlement with bondholders. Mr. Trump agreed to cede 50 percent of the equity in the casino to bondholders in exchange for lowered interest rates on the debt and more time to pay it off. COMPANY NEWS - Taj Mahal Is Out Of Bankruptcy - NYTimes.com |
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"The trustee in Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc.?s Chapter 11 proceedings has objected to the debtor?s proposed hiring of Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP, alleging a conflict of interest stemming from a previous bankruptcy case. " Weil Gotshal Has Conflict Of Interest: Trump Trustee - Law360 By the way, I did not post "conjecture". I posted the US Trustee program description from the DOJ website. Anyhow, this whole trustee tangent is irrelevant to the issue that restructuring through bankruptcy is not voluntary from the standpoint of creditors. So it is a misnomer to say that creditors are "fine" with banrkruptcy. |
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and it sounds like you got ch7 mixed up with ch11, ch7 requires a trustee, ch11, as i mentioned 2x above, defaults to *debtor in posession* and usually (routinely) does not have a trustee. a trustee runs the business while the business is in bankruptcy proceedings, something the debtor and creditors are very not fine with, thus pre-packaged terms presented to the judge and accepted by the judge. |
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That's like saying a guy who suggests taking a punch in the gut is fine with it when his only other alternative choice is getting kicked in the balls. And in chapter 11, the reason a "trustee is not assigned" is when the debtor also takes on the responsibilities of a trustee in good faith. So in essence there is always a trustee in chapter 11. And when the creditors argue that the debtor is not performing his trustee duties in good faith, than an outside trustee is appointed. "Section 1107 of the Bankruptcy Code places the debtor in possession in the position of a fiduciary, with the rights and powers of a chapter 11 trustee, and it requires the debtor to perform of all but the investigative functions and duties of a trustee. " Chapter 11 - Bankruptcy Basics | United States Courts And there is always a US Trustee that oversees the administration of chapter 11: "The U.S. trustee plays a major role in monitoring the progress of a chapter 11 case and supervising its administration. The U.S. trustee is responsible for monitoring the debtor in possession's operation of the business and the submission of operating reports and fees. Additionally, the U.S. trustee monitors applications for compensation and reimbursement by professionals, plans and disclosure statements filed with the court, and creditors' committees. The U.S. trustee conducts a meeting of the creditors, often referred to as the "section 341 meeting," in a chapter 11 case. 11 U.S.C. § 341. The U.S. trustee and creditors may question the debtor under oath at the section 341 meeting concerning the debtor's acts, conduct, property, and the administration of the case. " Chapter 11 - Bankruptcy Basics | United States Courts Still all entirely irrelevant to the fact that that chapter 11 banrkruptcy is not voluntary in terms of creditors. |
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Oh wait, I think you mixed up case trustee with US trustee. Case trustee are rare in chapter 11. US Trustee are always involved in chapter 11. "Along with the creditors committees, the U.S. Trustee acts as the primary "watchdog" to ensure compliance with the Bankruptcy Code in cases where no trustee has been appointed." |
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no one here has a sense for humor...
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