Fitty Great cars :thumbsup

indeed it is, tested it and LOVE it !:thumbsup

I'm waiting for the X to come out.

I completely agree, my wife does the majority of the mileage so this would be primarily for her and used as the family car.

I'm still waiting for you to come out!

Check this out

http://cleantechnica.com/files/2015/...la-Model-S.jpg

Is Tesla's Model-S the Beginning of the End for Oil? - Alberta Oil Magazine | Canada's leading source for oil and gas newsAlberta Oil Magazine | Canada's leading source for oil and gas news

What's next? Maybe photos of the Koch Brothers driving around in their EV's? Can't wait.

Powered by magical solar electricity :1orglaugh

See, now I want one!

If you post on GFY you are bound to have haters. It's inevitable..

:2 cents::2 cents::thumbsup

in some cases I consider it an honor

Range anxiety is no longer an issue in most places. Kenny is never going to take it outside of the greater Montreal area anyway :)

If he does, Canada has plenty of infrastructure for electric vehicles. Sun Country installed chargers across the entire TransCanada highway three years ago in a promo where a Tesla was driven cross country without issue. If you've ever driven across Canada, you will recognize what a feat that must have been to accomplish.

that article is all about if and when a battery tech breakthrough will ever happen, a point i made in another tesla thread which you were quick to point out as wrong, i'm glad you are seeing the issue now.

the expert being interviewed hopes there may be a breakthrough within the next 30 years.

AO: Is it fair to say that the race to build a better battery is one of the most important business and science stories in the world right now?

SL: I think it is. In terms of science and engineering, artificial intelligence is one. Genomics, of course, is another. But I don’t put those in the same area as batteries or electrochemistry, because this is something that could really change everything on Earth. These other areas are purely commercial. Now, I could be biased because I do have a book in this area, so obviously I do have an opinion on the subject. That said, I think I can make a very firm case that batteries are one of the single most important engineering and scientific pursuits currently going on. It’s the Holy Grail.

AO: Given the sheer volume of capital chasing that Holy Grail, is it safe to assume that the widespread adoption of electric vehicles is a matter of when rather than if?

SL: You cannot say flatly that the battery guys are going to make a big breakthrough in the near future. But my own thinking, having spent two years in the lab and knowing what’s going on around the world now and the commercial need for this big breakthrough, is that it does happen – and it does happen in the next few decades.

That said, it doesn’t have to happen in the way some people are imagining. A big breakthrough can happen by twinning a hybrid model of battery – a super capacitor with a battery, or a fuel cell with a battery. These are all different forms of electrochemistry. There can also be a partial breakthrough in batteries and a partial breakthrough in manufacturing that, together, get you to where you need to be on the cost curve to be fully competitive with combustion.

Impossible!


Very true, but you know what? I suffer from gasoline anxiety. Very true. Most of my trips are between Laval and downtown Montreal and I charge wherever I go. But I know I have to go somewhere where I'll run out of electrons and have to complete the trip on carbon, I get upset and or anxious. Then when I have no choice, I watch every indicator I can to make sure I only sip gasoline. Weird eh?

Actually I didn't read the article. I was just pointing out that there's a Tesla car on the front cover of a magazine intended for the oil industry.

As for battery breakthroughs, they are already happening, and more are on the way. That's not to say that there's not room for improvement, but I don't think it will be that long before we see cars travel 1000 miles on a single charge.

But anyway, it doesn't really matter that much as far as Tesla is concerned. Their cars already go about 300 miles on a charge. It's said that most drivers only do about 20 miles a day anyway, and speaking from personal experience, it's true.

It's time to give in my friend. Put a couple of pillows together in your bed tonight, call it Elon, and go to town. You'll feel better.

huh? give in to what? you confess you didn't read the article, in which experts talk about the lack of battery tech breakthroughs, then you claim those experts are wrong and you're right about plenty of battery tech breakthroughs. it's weird you can't realize that even elon musk is waiting for a breakthrough, i've even quoted him on that to you in a previous tesla thread.



:1orglaugh

It seems like every other day, some company somewhere is claiming some major breakthrough in battery technology. Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk is unimpressed and unfazed by these reports, though the upcoming Gigafactory will be ready should one of these battery breakthroughs pan out.

When asked at a shareholder meeting if Tesla is worried about a battery breakthrough coming from elsewhere in the industry, Musk answered simply. He said that so far, none of the supposed breakthroughs have held up at a laboratory level or actually exceed Tesla?s own composition.

Elon Musk Unimpressed By Battery Breakthroughs | CleanTechnica

I'm thinking that in 2017-2018 we'll be seeing a whole lot of Teslas on the roads of major cities. Lease returns will be coming in and the inexpensive Model E (or whatever the proper name is) will be hitting the ground. Smart entrepreneurs will be setting up charging stations the way they once did ATMs and vending machines.

i don't know what Teslas policy is on that but one of the biggest downsides of electric cars is that they become pretty useless after a couple of years

the batteries lose capacity and replacing them (unless separately rented like some companies do it - or covered by guarantee) will cost more than the rest of the car is worth.

result: no one will buy older electric cars, you either keep it and live with the shrinking range or you have to heavily invest in new batteries which eliminates the advantage lower costs per mile or you have to sell it for peanuts

I still think that fuel cells with hydrogen that was produced with renewable energy is the way to go - normal range and refueled in 5 mins

Like


or already available

I'd be hesitant to suggest that a Tesla is a disposable car. We're not talking about Hyundai or Ford here. Tesla has a huge stake in brand perception and I don't believe they would allow that to happen.

When Tesla launched their leasing program, they guaranteed a very generous residual value. Now that they own their own battery factory, there is no reason to believe that they would release their lease returns in anything but A1 condition.

The biggest issue people will have is deciding between a second hand Model S or a new Model E for about the same price.

We are at least a decade away from embracing and having the infrastructure for FCVs. They also have to overcome that scary hydrogen word that makes non-techies nervous.

ok, we're talking Tesla and leased only - but globally that will be a very small fraction

i am talking battery electric cars in general - and for those the 2nd hand market doesn't look so good

li-ion batteries lose ~9% of their max charge every year. a 3 year old tesla driven normally will have lost 27% of it's maximum charge in 36 months, translating into range, that takes the car from a 250 mile range car to a 180 mile range car.


you can translate that into cost also, the bat pack is ~$12k in the USA, so factor in $100/month for batteries over a 10 year cycle.

It would have been great for my road trip this past winter from Montreal to Phoenix and back. I had to stop every few hundred miles to walk the dog anyways so stopping to recharge wouldn't have been a big deal at all.

When you buy a used Tesla from the dealer/store they reset the 4 year bumper to bumper warranty which is pretty amazing. The 8 year power train they don't but I'm sure that'll change as they get more lease returns.

if those numbers are correct my range after 10 years would be 25 miles?

I don't think I could wait that long to replace them

That's where the 8 year unlimited mileage warranty comes in. The salesman told me anything over 20% would be considered abnormal and covered by the warranty. I asked him if this was in writing anywhere and he didn't have that available, back to he's a salesman-) From the forums it seems the number is closer to 30% degradation.

when i was researching this car for myself, i could not find any official data on the rate of decay of Tesla's Li-ion bat pack, obviously due to how young the car is.

Nevertheless, the batteries in the car are Panasonic laptop batteries and those are known to decay at ~9%/year.

are those forum posters who are seeing the 30% degradation mention making warranty claims? that 10% could be a significant difference. not a deal breaker, but a buying factor in my book.

None of them have had issues or a warranty claim as of yet from the threads I've read. They were just discussing what that magic % is when the time comes.

I have a feeling Tesla will be taking it on the chin when it comes to replacing the batteries to save face and bad press.

Your pain threshold far exceeds that of my own :helpme

I'm old and fat now! :)

Take it easy, Lemon Squeezey. I didn't "Confess" to anything. I posted a picture of the magazine and commented about an EV car on the cover of an oil mag. Then I commented that I think battery breakthroughs are already happening. I'm not disputing the experts in the article, whoever they are. I'm only saying that in the past 2 years, Both Chevy and Tesla offer longer range for their cars then they used to, and both claim battery improvements.

You've been good for a while... please don't start misquoting me or saying I said things I didn't say.


Yep I think so too. Whenever I am driving around I see at least 1 Tesla, at least 2 Volts, and sometimes another brand. At Place Ville Marie there are 6 charging stations and they are full these days. At most other charging stations I'm seeing more and more these days too. I fuckin' love it.


Maybe... I think the hope is that the cost of batteries will drop to something reasonable in the next few years. Until then, the car companies are being great, offering 8 year warranty on the batteries or something like that. Also, Tesla started offering battery upgrades for the older Roadsters.

consider yourself lucky. :warning

What does that mean?

no, the batteries are only a portion of the car, they will be happy to replace, to continue, the trust in the brand:2 cents:

I charge mine once a week.. and i only drive less then 10 miles to my office. I took a trip to Montreal earlier this year and made it just fine having a full charge and a single re-charge in the middle (albany)

I can't have enough good things to say about the car.. it seems just like every other owner.

Kenny, and anyone else looking for model s, use this link for $1k off :) and a bonus for me! Model S Design Studio | Tesla Motors

Love the new referral program!

**********, you gotta chill man, i didn't mean anything by that.