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^ what do you gather by that comment shap? combative or genuine? only logical response when somebody talks about who they know is to ask who else right? |
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Honestly last night i started that discussion with you with the idea of let's see if we can come up with a plan to help you execute and smash it. Today I'm left thinking Fuck this guy! Your negativity isn't worth dealing with. Good luck. |
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So to summarize, from thinking a couple of your responses sounded condescending, a thumbs up after a disagreement is typically done in a condescending manner. (also happen to be where you stopped discussing the orignal topic with me) You take that as im jealous of everything you've achieved? Could it simply be, it seemed by your post that i was arrogant from the start and did not want to post further with me? Where do you see anger? Ive tried to steer the direction back to the topic at hand countless times but you avoided it. All I have stated was that I think your responses weren't genuine and writeoffish, I truly dont care and have tried to get back to the topic at hand but its clear from page 1, that you did not want to talk business anymore. |
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met-art, brazzers, 21sextury, digitaldesire, all those companies are great. or they wouldn't have achieved success where they did. i actually stood up for why they aren't optimizing things. |
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In general I think everyone deserves to be treated with respect until they prove otherwise. You on the other hand feel it necessary to speak down to and about people and you seem to think you are an industry authority. You clearly have a small dick small bank account complex. I can see someone having made big bucks talking like an authority. But in your position to talk down about and to people is just comical. Focus on your own shortcomings instead of those of other people. Treat people with a little more respect. Try to be a little more positive and your business and your life will benefit. |
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I suggest people learn how to take peoples opinions with a grain of salt and take the information and anything else you seek from it and discard the rest, the only reason to be offended by an opinion is if you are insecure about yourself or your business. If they are not personally attacking you, try to understand their opinion and if you disagree, leave it at that. If you think somebody is wrong, why must somebody politely walk on eggshells? I believe this is an adult forum and you can come out and say, i think you are wrong and this is why i believe so Are you not used to people saying this? I believe thats more likely And I have not personally attacked one person on this forum. |
Also when you suggest a person's opinion is incorrect, it doesn't imply you think you are superior to them and it doesn't mean you are talking down to them. It means you think that opinion is incorrect. Every single person knows something you don't know. In these instances where I pick and choose where i post, i feel strongly about my opinion in this one case and am willing to give data to back up my opinion and accept evidence that disproves it
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I have a question for you Shap.
A lot of the mainstream programs that were big (and still are) from until 2010 have launched their own gay programs in the last five years or so. Brazzers, bangbros, nastyd, biggy, all launched brand new gay programs/sites in the past few years. If you didnt sell to manwin in 2011 did you see yourself launching a gay paysite or program back then? If not, would you launch it in todays market? The reason I ask is because you had the biggest gay tube site when you sold... Thanks. |
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Hopefully crystallized like the hit of LSD-25 Doc Ellis pitched the no-hitter on... :winkwink: |
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When it comes to online porn the question is why buy this girl, when there are 100s of others. This is 1% of the selection. http://pattayaplaza.com/wp-content/u...-fishbowl1.jpg And then when you find that magic ingredient that separated one for the 100s of others. The 100s of others copy it. If it's not to unique. That's the problem with a lot of online businesses, so for most it ends up with arriving on the right page at the right time and the surfer feeling good about the right image. Or. Throwing shit at the wall. :1orglaugh |
I am surprised that our surfers side hasn't found more hidden gems then this.
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Being as I get to see quite a few sites, I have often been frustrated that a certain site with fantastic content seems to do very poorly with our readers. For one reason or another.
A few great sites right off the top of my head are: Brand New Amateurs | You may know this girl! Simonscans (at least until several problems made it difficult for Simon to continue at usual pace) CandyGirl Video Homepage (kind of like Inthecrack when they started out) Gloryhole Swallow Amateur Women Videos | Natural breasts | Amateur Naked Women Pictures | Amateur Nude women | Amateur Boobs: Homepage - Justnips.com (Great models and content - would tweak it a bit and make it more explicit though) http://nip-activity.com/ http://www.brokeamateurs.com/ |
I don't know of any great content sites that aren't successful, I know how much it costs to shoot high quality content, so the question for myself, the information I need is how much those sites are netting after expenses.
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I probably didn't clearly express what I was looking for in the first post. But it wasn't to discuss sites that smash it, Bang Bros, RK, Braz etc. It was to discuss the lesser pushed but strong content. Those are the guys that imo need help not only to grow but to survive moving forward. So I'm looking for a list of companies like that. |
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I have a hard time seeing how any of those would convert these days. They're alright but to get a surfer to take out his wallet the content has to be exceptional or micro niche oriented, that is ALSO not widely available on tubes. |
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I just looked at all the sites listed in the previous post, read Mutt's comments about the costs of producing good amateur content, and I note the speculations about what makes Ruseful's content so successful.
Here are my thoughts: Most of that content is actually quite generic and not really that compelling. Unless the surfer connects specifically with a particular model, then they can find similar content on plenty of sites, notably tube sites - for free. Good authentic amateur content is not about high production costs. I would put that type of stuff that Mutt gets with his photographer, which I personally love the quality - excellent models and great photography, in another class, but I would not call it amateur. Great amateur content is about the "x-factor" in the sincerity of the interaction. Period. You all don't know how many companies and programs I have watched go out of biz over the years trying to prove otherwise. Ruseful studies trends. He does his homework. Tests. Finds what works. Then replicates effectively and consistently. He uses the tubes better than any program I know so saying "but it is all over the tubes" doesn't really apply when you set up the join funnels as smartly as he does. |
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begin rambling thought... He knows how to put those most eyes possible on it and maximise it. OCDly analyses ALL data. He is a master of traffic. imho , it is the old adage.. Great product , gets 100k unique sells @ 1 in 100 , gets 1000 joins...Mediocre content...gets 500k unique sells at 1 in 250 gets 2000 joins....and additionally gets better known.You know which scenario I want. Join ratios are great excuse to feel better about smaller wires. And also..knowing your niche. You may remember "heather" from the boards? Bit umm eccentric..rest her soul. When I had my real amateur wife site doing well , I pissed with her over her criticism regarding lighting make up photography quality etc. She could not understand that this site was supposed to be "real" amateur pics taken , say, at the end of a drunken date night with..the surfers did not want to see perfectly lit etc etc...that was a give away it was not "real" amateur porn. I had the same problem with designers in 2000 putting women on our amateur pages with fake boobs...they did not get it..so know your niche. And with the utmost respect, for years now when homegrown has cropped up in conversations I have always thought "that site should have been massive". Great great content imho..and good people. /ramble |
Nice read
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We have had that fight for years, but the first major lesson I learned when we took over Homegrown was not to base decisions on what I personally liked, but what the customer feedback and response demanded. True story... we had a bunch of submitted videos that we had no clue what to do with, or what to title it, and finally we said "fuck it" and put it out and called it like we saw it. The title was "Oversexed, over weight, and over 40" and what do you know? Turns out it was a top seller for us that year. But... my brother always wanted the overly posed forced smile fake boob blonde trying to be the next Jenna on the covers (this goes all the way back to VHS era mind you) so I constantly had to battle for doing amateur as amateur and not trying to be just another ubiquitous pro-am. To me, there is something much more rare and valuable about the "Saturday night and a 6 pack" mom and pop getting their freak on for one time only amateur than the new hot model that is going to shoot dozens of so-called amateur scenes for the next few months and show up on every site out there. |
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And it was no jab..all of us could have been a lot bigger. Hell.. I think back and realise the dumb choices I made lol. We all left a lot of money on the table I bet :( ..ah well... as the wife says "yr big enough" ;) ;) And always remember at the end of the day , we are all under achievers in the eyes of R-n. ;-))) I know..he has told me many times ;);) |
Ryan Madison is shooting great stuff, he's middle aged now so the TeenFidelity stuff has that older man young gir..... um ... woman perversion that seems to be very popular, probably because a large % of porn buyers are 40 and over. He's a really good stunt cock, rails girls, weird positions.
Pierre Woodman still does the best casting videos. |
MPL Studios is a good example. I'm sure they do ok but i don't see them on many sites. My gut tells me the upside for them is huge.
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Now, where to find good programs like that. |
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:winkwink: |
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The only ones I know besides Homegrown said goodbye to affiliates long, long ago. :2 cents: |
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there is one fetish network (don't remember which one) which has great content, and they have 4 different mega sites for each niche, but i think they would be better off in combining those 4 mega sites into multi-niche mega site, so more for everyone |
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But my business model is WAY different than almost anyone's I have met. My philosophy regarding porn surfers/members is a bit different, too. I WISH I could shoot great content like Twistys, Ruseful or Homegrown. I WISH I had vibrant, weekly updated Tours and MAs.....but then I stop myself, think of the expense of shooting, updating, etc, crunch the numbers and discover (like Nickatilynx so wisely pointed out) that the ONLY number that counts for anything is the amount of money you put in your bank account. I am not convinced that endlessly shooting even great content, constantly updating and having tons of user interactivity leads to more revenue or rebills. In fact, I think it puts most companies in a hole that eventually consumes them. The pressure to keep 'feeding the beast" can be enormous. The wonder of Homegrown (MUCH respect!) is how they have survived amidst all this change and are still shooting amazing content! I think Homegrown may be the exception that proves the rule. :) |
Porn Nerd, Thanks for the compliment! Much respect to you and what you have done and I agree with your assessment of cost vs return on content.
However, need to point out, we don't shoot content at all. These days about 90% of our content is user submissions and we typically do not accept "studio" amateur content. We have a couple "producers" that turn in scenes if and when we need something specific for a dvd title or for cable/sat, but everything else is pretty much swinger home video type stuff, tripods or handheld, the real deal amateur. These days I get hit up almost daily by "producers" saying they can shoot "amateur" scenes for us and I take one look at their samples and I think many here would say it is great content but I know it won't work for us at all. If there is a cameraman then most of our audience will call bullshit on it being amateur, unless it is obviously the hubby or whatever and gets in on the action too. We do buy "filler content" that is pro-am but we have to be very clear with the members what it is or they get pissed. |
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It is a problem not just for buying but for selling too because most webmasters, dvd distributors, cable licensees, etc. think "amateur" means something that looks way too professional in our customer's eyes. |
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In my opinion some of those sites are just as great as Backroom Casting Couch for example, but for various reasons (presentation maybe) are not enjoying the same attention. |
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JAVHD could do much better if they used better translators and writers for their sites. What kills them is they go on the cheap in these areas so ratios have been very poor as of the past few years. If they restructured and began producing content they might do better as well. Not with Western producers but remain with Japanese producers who know the styles and the market. |
Shap, would be great to hear your thoughts on onlytease.com - we do well, but I know with more targetted traffic we could do even better :)
Any thoughts? Cheers Paul |
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Onlytease has very good content but I honestly believe the name hurts the brand. Its a restrictive name and a huge part of flirting or teasing is not knowing if that's all that will happen. I'd be very interested to see a clone of that content on a domain like Flirt.xxx or another more open sounding brand name. To me OnlyTease sounds like 'that's all she does' and it weakens the fantasy.
Just my 2cents (offered in a very constructive way so please don't go psycho in your reply as I'm actually trying to be helpful). |
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